Lets talk about William Nylander.

[mapleleaf979]

To be fair to Nylander, we have absolutely no idea what anyone is trying or is playing through at this point. We didn't find out about Marner until post being knocked out. I'm not saying its likely or what is happening, but for all we know, Willy could be playing through something that is making him avoid contact. In general, he has battled harder and improved that over his time as a Leaf. It may just be the Chara factor but there could also be something to it.

Maybe Nylander is hurt idk. Who wants to pay him 6-7 million to disappear when he wants. He reminds me of Kessel in the sense that he will shut his game down in physical games and play to the outside and also just randomly not compete for serveral games during the year.

 

[mapleleaf979]

I could have sworn The kid stepped up when his country needed him recently at the world champs and played really well with Matthew's in last year's playoffs

Doesn't exactly scream underachiever with zero passion now does it?

He's going through a rough stretch, it happens and there's no way I'm giving up on a 21 year old 60 point forward that weve drafted and developed because of 5 ******* games

He was excellent down the stretch last year and into the playoffs and then into the World Championships. He even started the pre season and season fully engaged. I thought he had matured or gotten more serious and had left his inconsistent compete level behind him. I was wrong. He proved that shortly after game 10. He was up and down all year long. Players slump I get that, its just hard to watch Nylander not skate, disengage and watch his linemates. Its playoff time, it matters so much for some players. Nylander literally is playing like he doesnt give a bleep if the Leafs win or lose.

 

[MyBudJT]

I could have sworn The kid stepped up when his country needed him recently at the world champs and played really well with Matthew's in last year's playoffs

Doesn't exactly scream underachiever with zero passion now does it?

He's going through a rough stretch, it happens and there's no way I'm giving up on a 21 year old 60 point forward that weve drafted and developed because of 5 ******* games

I think the frustration is more due to Nylander not performing to expectation, rather than 'giving up' on him.

People here are suggesting we should pay Nylander 6, 6.5, 7+ mil!! That is absolutely absurd for a 20G, 60P player who has not shown great consistency in his career. He has been scoring at a ~16G, ~48P pace the last ~30 games, when games mattered most.

I say this is what you offer Nylander:
6 yrs x 5.25 mil
7 yrs x 5.5 mil
8 yrs x 5.75 mil

 

[supermann_98]

He’s no Pastrnak that’s for sure. Pasta scares the crap outta me whenever he has the puck.

 

[Walshy7]

I think the frustration is more due to Nylander not performing to expectation, rather than 'giving up' on him.

People here are suggesting we should pay Nylander 6, 6.5, 7+ mil!! That is absolutely absurd for a 20G, 60P player who has not shown great consistency in his career. He has been scoring at a ~16G, ~48P pace the last ~30 games, when games mattered most.

I say this is what you offer Nylander:
6 yrs x 5.25 mil
7 yrs x 5.5 mil
8 yrs x 5.75 mil

Yeah I agree marner was on pace for 2 goals well into December he is worth about $4m. See how absurd your line of thinking is? Marner is easily worth $6.5m but selecting a sample size to fit a narrative can make anything work.

Nylander was one of best players down the stretch and in the playoffs last year so he is 1-2 in “performing when it matters” how short the memories are around here.

I get it though your dissapointment in the leafs playoffs needs one specific scapegoat to show how much it means to you the leafs are losing.

 

[DarkKnight]

He was excellent down the stretch last year and into the playoffs and then into the World Championships. He even started the pre season and season fully engaged.

That was an amazing stretch of hockey, he looked like one of the best players in the game at the Worlds. For me, it starts with his shot, during that stretch it was lethal, world class elite, and for whatever reason now it doesn't look as dangerous, he almost hesitates, it's just confidence.

As for criticizing him last night, I didn't really see why he was being "picked on". Weirdest game I can recall.

 

[Walshy7]

That was an amazing stretch of hockey, he looked like one of the best players in the game at the Worlds. For me, it starts with his shot, during that stretch it was lethal, world class elite, and for whatever reason now it doesn't look as dangerous, he almost hesitates, it's just confidence.

As for criticizing him last night, I didn't really see why he was being "picked on". Weirdest game I can recall.

I thought he was good, and nylander good not good compared to his other 4 games. He made one bad play that was 60-40 gardiner nylander at fault, if gardiner made the right play it would have been out of the zone. After that mistake there was at least 50 posts calling him soft etc. It is amazing some leaf fans have to hate one leaf per squad I guess

 

[MyBudJT]

Yeah I agree marner was on pace for 2 goals well into December he is worth about $4m. See how absurd your line of thinking is? Marner is easily worth $6.5m but selecting a sample size to fit a narrative can make anything work.

Nylander was one of best players down the stretch and in the playoffs last year so he is 1-2 in “performing when it matters” how short the memories are around here.

I get it though your dissapointment in the leafs playoffs needs one specific scapegoat to sure how much it means to you the leafs are losing.

1) That isn't my line of thinking at all...
2) Marner > Nylander. I agree Marner is easily worth $6.5m, but Nylander isn't...
Marner actually showed a large improvement from last season to this season... Nylander hasn't. Nylander plays with our best player, Marner doesn't. Marner drives his line consistently, Nylander doesn't. Marner has a big motor/drive train, Nylander doesn't.

I actually like Nylander, but he's should be signing at 5.5m at best on a 6-8 year deal... he's not a 7 mil guy. But for some reason, people get 'offended', and claim that I'm using him as a scapegoat when I suggest this.

Gotta love it when people twist your points/ideas to fit their narrative though. Keep at it Walshy!

 

[DarkKnight]

I thought he was good, and nylander good not good compared to his other 4 games. He made one bad play that was 60-40 gardiner nylander at fault, if gardiner made the right play it would have been out of the zone. After that mistake there was at least 50 posts calling him soft etc. It is amazing some leaf fans have to hate one leaf per squad I guess

He was fine last night. The problem is agendas, then people wait to pounce the first chance they get. Like Babs doesn't play the kids, most of our team can't even grow beards, lol!! Hello.

 

[shortfuze]

Can we finally all agree that MM is on another level than WN?

Maybe wait till the playoffs are done. Could be playing with an injury.

 

[Walshy7]

1) That isn't my line of thinking at all...
2) Marner > Nylander. I agree Marner is easily worth $6.5m, but Nylander isn't...
Marner actually showed a large improvement from last season to this season... Nylander hasn't. Nylander plays with our best player, Marner doesn't. Marner drives his line consistently, Nylander doesn't. Marner has a big motor/drive train, Nylander doesn't.

I actually like Nylander, but he's should be signing at 5.5m at best on a 6-8 year deal... he's not a 7 mil guy. But for some reason, people get 'offended', and claim that I'm using him as a scapegoat when I suggest this.

Gotta love it when people twist your points/ideas to fit their narrative though. Keep at it Walshy!

2x 61 point season at age 21, this year 11 pp points last year 26. I mean the improvement is there to see you can choose not to see it if you like. 2x61 point seasons at 21 doesn’t get less than $6m. I said nothing about $7m did I? No I didn’t.

I’m not going into the marner vs nylander comparisons they have been done, you can read back yourself if you want to see why playing with Matthews isn’t actually that much different than playing less difficult competition like marner has.

Anyway let’s leave marner our I know I browught him up but I can’t be bothered with the 10+ posters I’ll get calling me a marner hater. I just used an example of a sample size where marner wasn’t performing for a long stretch to show he had a period of $5.5m hockey that’s all

 

[Nithoniniel]

Can we finally all agree that MM is on another level than WN?

Any such assertion would be based just on who is hot right now. If MM was truly on another level, they wouldn't be pretty much equal over these two seasons. Nylander plays with Matthews mostly, but Marner has had high-end players himself. Marner has also played easier minutes over those two seasons. Marner is younger, but he has also had the privilege of being a (large) part of the best PP unit in the league.

I like Marner better, but there is no different levels here. There's one player currently struggling, even though he just had a pretty good game, and one guy who is showing all he can do right now.

 

[MyBudJT]

2x 61 point season at age 21, this year 11 pp points last year 26. I mean the improvement is there to see you can choose not to see it if you like. 2x61 point seasons at 21 doesn’t get less than $6m. I said nothing about $7m did I? No I didn’t.

You're looking pretty hard to find these 'large improvements'.

I've made this comparison before... but why should we pay Nylander more than Rielly? Rielly during his final ELC year was a top pairing Dman, and probably the best player on our team (I know, it was a bad team).

All things considered, I'd put Nylander is the same class/tier as Rielly. I know they're different positions, but just same calliber of player.

If I'm Morgan Rielly, and I see Nylander signing a 6.5million contract... I'd sit back and say "How does this guy get 1.5 million more than me...?".

I believe Nylander should be getting Rielly money.

If you take the difference in salary cap into account, this equates to a 6yr x 5.5 million contract.

If you want longer term, I'd be okay with:
7x5.75
8x6

But nothing higher.

 

[Walshy7]

You're looking pretty hard to find these 'large improvements'.

I've made this comparison before... but why should we pay Nylander more than Rielly? Rielly during his final ELC year was a top pairing Dman, and probably the best player on our team (I know, it was a bad team).

All things considered, I'd put Nylander is the same class/tier as Rielly. I know they're different positions, but just same calliber of player.

If I'm Morgan Rielly, and I see Nylander signing a 6.5million contract... I'd sit back and say "How does this guy get 1.5 million more than me...?".

I believe Nylander should be getting Rielly money.

If you take the difference in salary cap into account, this equates to a 6yr x 5.5 million contract.

If you want longer term, I'd be okay with:
7x5.75
8x6

But nothing higher.

Ok I think differently but that’s what makes the world go round. Nylander won’t sign 7-8 years at that price I wouldn’t. He doesn’t have to take a long term deal you have to make it worth it for him.

Anyway enjoy your Sunday after a huge win last night

 

[MyBudJT]

Any such assertion would be based just on who is hot right now. If MM was truly on another level, they wouldn't be pretty much equal over these two seasons. Nylander plays with Matthews mostly, but Marner has had high-end players himself. Marner has also played easier minutes over those two seasons. Marner is younger, but he has also had the privilege of being a (large) part of the best PP unit in the league.

I like Marner better, but there is no different levels here. There's one player currently struggling, even though he just had a pretty good game, and one guy who is showing all he can do right now.

I'd argue its not just a "hot streak"... Marner has clearly found an extra gear since our team turned around in late January.

Since January 24th (Regular season + Play0ffs);

MM: 17G 42P in 38GP (On pace for: 37G, 91P in 82GP)
WN: 11G, 29P in 38GP (On pace for: 24G, 63P in 82GP) <- Career average

Also, last year there was a large contingent of people that thought Marner had a chance of outscoring Matthews until Marner got Mono...

All things considered given age, health, linemates, etc, I think Marner has without a doubt shown more than Nylander. This isn't a knock on Nylander though, Willy is a good player in his own right.

 

[SweLeafsFan]

I think he would be a PPG player if he just worked a little harder and wasn't afraid to take the puck to the areas where it might hurt a little. Far too often he just skates down the side and stops in the offensive zone only to make the easy play back to the d-man. Occasionally he takes the puck to the net and creates good scoring changes but not often enough, he has the speed to do it a lot. I've not given up on him, in fact he is my favorite player, it is just frustrating to watch sometimes when I know he has more in him. But maybe this is just the type of player he is.

 

[Nithoniniel]

I'd argue its not just a "hot streak"... Marner has clearly found an extra gear since our team turned around in late January.

Yeah, but we thought the same about Willy last season. Just like hadn't cast off every trace of going into his passive streaks, it's not for granted that Marner has cast off the issues that made him rather ineffective to start the season.

 

[Muston Atthews]

This is why I wanted Tampa in the first round. Physicality is not our game for pretty much all our players, especially our top ones. Matthews and Nylander would have thrived against soft checking Tampa

 

[Nick034]

This is why I wanted Tampa in the first round. Physicality is not our game for pretty much all our players, especially our top ones. Matthews and Nylander would have thrived against soft checking Tampa

It is better this way, beat bruins and then have it with TB.

 

[Menzinger]

Any such assertion would be based just on who is hot right now. If MM was truly on another level, they wouldn't be pretty much equal over these two seasons. Nylander plays with Matthews mostly, but Marner has had high-end players himself. Marner has also played easier minutes over those two seasons. Marner is younger, but he has also had the privilege of being a (large) part of the best PP unit in the league.

I like Marner better, but there is no different levels here. There's one player currently struggling, even though he just had a pretty good game, and one guy who is showing all he can do right now.

Yeah, I always find it a bit odd to see so many folks say Marner is a clear tier above when the numbers show clear as day they’re incredibly similar (I mean, not to mention a few months ago when Marner was on the 4th line I suspect a fair number of them were complaining that the Leafs should be trading him lol). Nylander had solid power play production last season too, but unfortunately the whole unit seeemed to be dysfunctional this year.

Marner has been better this playoffs though (but it’s not like it’s a competition between them)

 

[MyBudJT]

Yeah, but we thought the same about Willy last season. Just like hadn't cast off every trace of going into his passive streaks, it's not for granted that Marner has cast off the issues that made him rather ineffective to start the season.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Nylander did not got on a 37G 90+ point pace over a 30+ game stretch ever in the course of his career...

 

[Nithoniniel]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Nylander did not got on a 37G 90+ point pace over a 30+ game stretch ever in the course of his career...

I think he was PPG over the last half of his rookie season, and followed that up with that WC performance where he looked better than established NHL stars like Bäckström. Not quite the highs of Marner, put probably a larger sample.

 

[ObscureAlien]

Johnsson-Kadri-Nylander was the Leafs best line IMO through the first 30 minutes before the refs took over and Nylander played a large role. I believe he was the one who started the zone exit that led to the Johnsson goal, I saw him working, protecting the puck in the corners, and he had a very dangerous give and go with Kadri in the 2nd that he almost capitalized on.

 

[MyBudJT]

I think he was PPG over the last half of his rookie season, and followed that up with that WC performance where he looked better than established NHL stars like Bäckström. Not quite the highs of Marner, put probably a larger sample.

I didn't recall such a streak, so I looked into it.

Regular season + playoffs =
2016/2017
WN last 48 games: 14G, 38P (24G, 65P pace)
WN last 38 games: 10G, 31P (22G, 67P pace)
WN last 28 games: 6G, 23P (18G, 67P pace)
WN last 18 games: 5G, 14P (23G, 64P pace)


2017/2018
MM last 48 games: 18G, 45P (31G, 77P pace)
MM last 38 games: 17G, 42P (37G, 91P pace)
MM last 28 games: 10G, 29P (29G, 85P pace)
MM last 18 games: 4G, 18P (18G, 82P pace)

 

[Tak7]

Didnt like his game at all last night.

No surprises he didnt see much ice time late in the third. He just isnt competing anywhere near as hard as is needed at this time of year.