Half-Assed GDT: Leafs vs Blues

[TheDizee]

first of all ive always said keumper and lehner SUCK are not cup quality goaltenders so those numbers just validate how bad binnington has been. and if thats the sort of goaltending you get from him this year and hes fed starts, we will NOT be a playoff team.

im so tired of the binnington apologists. its the brian elliott/allen situation all over again when elliott totally shit the bed in 2015 meanwhile our backups are playing lights out. there is ZERO reason Binnington should be playing right now until he figures out how to consistently stop pucks. if berube wants to have this team struggle for a playoff spot then he can keep playing binnington.

why is it that every other goalie we call up, including a dude we had play 1 game then traded, is able to spit out top 3 star performances every time they play meanwhile this dude who is making 6 million a year is spitting out .875 save pct as the norm and is shielded from ANY criticism because of things he did 3 years ago? this guy needs to get his head out of his ass and start performing, a goalies job is to stop the MISTAKES your team makes. everyone is gonna have a bad game every now and then, but this has been the norm since the bubble and ESPECIALLY the past 2 seasons.

His save pct is dropping EVERY year yet hes shielded from any sort of criticism. its beyond sad. its just like how elliott was praised here for years and when they traded him for KYROU all the elliott homers said it was the end of the world and how a guy who just took us to the 3rd round would never be replaced.

the blues are good enough that they dont even need 5 star performances every night but the dude just has to stop the pucks he needs to stop and hes not doing it this year.

 

[execwrite1]

first of all ive always said keumper and lehner SUCK are not cup quality goaltenders so those numbers just validate how bad binnington has been. and if thats the sort of goaltending you get from him this year and hes fed starts, we will NOT be a playoff team.

why is it that every other goalie we call up, including a dude we had play 1 game then traded, is able to spit out top 3 star performances every time they play meanwhile this dude who is making 6 million a year is spitting out .875 save pct as the norm and is shielded from ANY criticism because of things he did 3 years ago? this guy needs to get his head out of his ass and start performing, a goalies job is to stop the MISTAKES your team makes. everyone is gonna have a bad game every now and then, but this has been the norm since the bubble and ESPECIALLY the past 2 seasons.
the blues are good enough that they dont even need 5 star performances every night but the dude just has to stop the pucks he needs to stop and hes not doing it this year.

Instead, they allowed a season-high six goals, with Jordan Binnington allowing four or more goals for the eighth time in 22 starts and three or more for the 15th time.

Have to agree.

Binnington starts run to Stanley Cup Jan. 7, 2019

Husso becomes number one Jan. 17, 2022, starts run to .....

 

[Renard]

What a disappointing end.

I expected Binnington to be replaced after the first period. Good for the Blues for coming back.

I was at the game and couldn't understand the rumpus involving Bunting. Why did Krug knock him down and jump on him?

I like the play of Mikkola. If he can't win over some fans as a defensive player, maybe he can go do it as an offensive defenseman. And man, he is feisty. He better be able to fight if he keeps that up.

 

[TheDizee]

Instead, they allowed a season-high six goals, with Jordan Binnington allowing four or more goals for the eighth time in 22 starts and three or more for the 15th time.

Have to agree.

Binnington starts run to Stanley Cup Jan. 7, 2019

Husso becomes number one Jan. 17, 2022, starts run to .....

I still say Chuckie Sideburns has been the best goalie for the Note this year but Husso has played well and anything is better than feeding Binnington starts right now.

Think about it, the Blues practically have to score 5 or 6 goals a night right now to win with him in net. Its f***ing crazy to see people defending his play because he won a cup 3 years ago. Alex Steen won a cup 3 years ago too, does not mean I want him playing right now.

This guys ego and on ice shenanigans is one thing but you better backup that ego with high caliber play and instead he shits out awful stats and if his name was ALLEN instead of Binnington this board would be in meltdown begging for a goalie change.

 

[Celtic Note]

Pretty sure Lehner took the Knights to the third round in 2019-20. And every one of those third round games were one goal games.

Kuemper was acquired in the offseason, don't see how he's at fault for Colorado not being about to get past the 2nd round.

Kuemper was never going to be that guy unless the team put up strong enough offensive numbers to overcome him. They were better off with who they had before him.

Lehner has pretty significant mental health issues. If he is in a good place, we have seen he can do very well. But, he struggles to stay in that good place.

 

[Celtic Note]

What do they do with him? Have his $6 Mil ride the bench? Try and trick a team into taking him?

I would do as we used to do and ride the hot hand more frequently then we have been lately.

But, that more of a general philosophy I have.

 

[Blueston]

Well, that was a very exciting game with a nut-punch ending. Not a great pass by Scandy, but it's not like it led to a golden scoring chance. Really tough to let in that horrible goal at such a crucial time as I thought Binner had battled pretty well up until that point. Once Toronto had tied it up it seemed like the Blues were just playing to get it to OT and it cost us. We were fortunate to even have a chance to win when you look at the shots/scoring chances, but it's a shame not to get at least a point when we battled back so well.

One thing I couldn't figure out is why Chief had Kostin's line on the ice so much when it was close and late in the game. That led to the penalty against which allowed the Leafs to tie the game, and then he put them back out there when it was 5-5. I guess it was just the short bench, but those guys are really outmatched against the talent on the Leafs. Perunovich was exposed a few times as well and needs to be heavily sheltered on D, but good learning experience for the young guys.

I agree with those who say to give Husso an extended look. I don't think Binner has been THAT bad, but Husso has looked fantastic and deserves more of a chance.

I wonder if others in lineup were sick? Kyrou didn’t play much and seemed to lack some jump. But we only had 2 legit nhl lines so our AHL guys were left exposed.

 

[BlueMed]

It’s not entitlement to demand a player play up to his contract(or even close to it). It’s accountability. Binner can’t do it, Husso can, so let’s play Husso. Three seasons is enough evidence. Carolina had to do it with Cam Ward, Ottawa with Hammond etc. Just admit the guy isn’t who you hoped he’d be, thank him for his effort leading you to a Cup, and move on.

Technically you're not really on the other end of that contract...so you have no right to demand anything of Jordan Binnington. That's where the entitlement is.

 

[BlueMed]

Literally nobody with a working brain has ever called them cup contending goalies. They play on cup contending teams and are one of the reasons neither has been able to get to the Finals.

That makes no sense. If a team doesn't have a good enough goaltender, it has ZERO chance of winning a cup regardless of the team infront.

 

[Moose and Squirrel]

was busy the last period and didn't get to follow the chat, but did catch the end, and yes, it was frustrating. as much as I didn't think Binny had that bad of a game going on, that last goal was Allen-esque.
I would think Husso gets the start next game and see what happens going forward. really unfortunate, but those games happen. put it behind ya and move on

 

[Joshuar56]

Technically you're not really on the other end of that contract...so you have no right to demand anything of Jordan Binnington. That's where the entitlement is.

We literally provide the income for the guys on the other end of that contract... without fans there is no contract.

 

[execwrite1]

From Lou -

Case in point, the Leafs' go-ahead goal scored by Ilya Mikheyev, a goal that never should go in in the first place, but the sequence starts with a failed backhand dump-in in the offensive zone by Ivan Barbashev that leads to the Leafs (24-9-3) gaining possession and entering the Blues zone with 4:07 remaining.

From there, it was mistake after mistake and multiple failed executions.

Nathan Walker wasn't able to win a wall battle -- something the Blues had issues with most of the game -- along the right side that enabled the Leafs to keep the puck deep. Tyler Bozak had the first of multiple failed clearing attempts when instead of firing it hard off the boards or whipping it straight out, he softly throws it off the boards and the puck's picked off. Then Justin Faulk had the first of two failed clears, the first when he fanned while trying to slap it around the boards. And then Bozak plays it around the boards but it was kept in at the point. The puck gets thrown back around to the opposite side, Bozak in possession again, flips it off the back boards to Faulk, who instead of slamming it out of the zone, tries to feather one up to the blue line to James Neal, only to get picked off again. The puck was there to be won on the wall again, and Neal's backhand attempt to clear the zone was also unsuccessful. Neal gets to it along the left boards, and throws it off the back boards around to Marco Scandella, who gathers it with acres of empty space to finally get a clear. But for whatever reason, inexplicably, Scandella, instead of moving it safely out of the zone, whether skating it out or just pushing it ahead while the Blues are making a line change, he reverse pivots it while making a change himself at the end of a 1:59 shift back behind the net out of the reach of Faulk. The puck gets picked off by Engvall, who feeds Mikheyev, and if anything didn't go wrong to begin with, he scored in a sharp angle that Jordan Binnington allowed through the wickets, a goal that should never go in.

 

[542365]

Technically you're not really on the other end of that contract...so you have no right to demand anything of Jordan Binnington. That's where the entitlement is.

Technically I'm a season ticket holder and pay thousands of dollars each year, which goes toward player salary, so I absolutely have a right to demand a better performance. Without people like me the league doesn't exist and Jordan is a grocery store clerk or something. If you want to talk "technicalities", "technically" you're f***ing wrong.

 

[Moose and Squirrel]

From Lou -

Case in point, the Leafs' go-ahead goal scored by Ilya Mikheyev, a goal that never should go in in the first place, but the sequence starts with a failed backhand dump-in in the offensive zone by Ivan Barbashev that leads to the Leafs (24-9-3) gaining possession and entering the Blues zone with 4:07 remaining.

From there, it was mistake after mistake and multiple failed executions.

Nathan Walker wasn't able to win a wall battle -- something the Blues had issues with most of the game -- along the right side that enabled the Leafs to keep the puck deep. Tyler Bozak had the first of multiple failed clearing attempts when instead of firing it hard off the boards or whipping it straight out, he softly throws it off the boards and the puck's picked off. Then Justin Faulk had the first of two failed clears, the first when he fanned while trying to slap it around the boards. And then Bozak plays it around the boards but it was kept in at the point. The puck gets thrown back around to the opposite side, Bozak in possession again, flips it off the back boards to Faulk, who instead of slamming it out of the zone, tries to feather one up to the blue line to James Neal, only to get picked off again. The puck was there to be won on the wall again, and Neal's backhand attempt to clear the zone was also unsuccessful. Neal gets to it along the left boards, and throws it off the back boards around to Marco Scandella, who gathers it with acres of empty space to finally get a clear. But for whatever reason, inexplicably, Scandella, instead of moving it safely out of the zone, whether skating it out or just pushing it ahead while the Blues are making a line change, he reverse pivots it while making a change himself at the end of a 1:59 shift back behind the net out of the reach of Faulk. The puck gets picked off by Engvall, who feeds Mikheyev, and if anything didn't go wrong to begin with, he scored in a sharp angle that Jordan Binnington allowed through the wickets, a goal that should never go in.

that sequence pretty much sums up the whole game. the Blues' dzone play was , to put it politely, really bad. gotta be honest, I haven't seen them struggle like that, for pretty much the whole game, in a LONG time

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

What a disappointing end.

I expected Binnington to be replaced after the first period. Good for the Blues for coming back.

I was at the game and couldn't understand the rumpus involving Bunting. Why did Krug knock him down and jump on him?

I like the play of Mikkola. If he can't win over some fans as a defensive player, maybe he can go do it as an offensive defenseman. And man, he is feisty. He better be able to fight if he keeps that up.

Just prior to that Mikkola had knocked Bunting into the boards, and Bunting grabbed his head and looked around for the refs. It looked pretty obvious that he was feigning a shot to the head trying to bait a call. I assume Krug saw that, but maybe he was just responding to Mikkola getting involved with him.

 

[jura]

 

[Blueston]

Yeah, bunting got 2 minutes for being a tool.

 

[BlueMed]

Technically I'm a season ticket holder and pay thousands of dollars each year, which goes toward player salary, so I absolutely have a right to demand a better performance. Without people like me the league doesn't exist and Jordan is a grocery store clerk or something. If you want to talk "technicalities", "technically" you're f***ing wrong.

As a season ticket holder, you can demand better performance from the Blues as a team but not necessarily from a player individually. You do not directly pay the salaries of the players. Being a fan is not technically the same thing as being an employer or a GM as much as fans like to think so.

 

[Stlblue50]

I’m going to hold off my judgement until we see how Binner plays when it matter the most, the playoffs. And I honestly do not count or hold the last 2 playoff years for having much of any meaning to judge his play.

The bubble tournament was a complete joke. It took out everything that makes being a Cup winner so hard and meaningful. Last year’s no fans, division/playoff format realignment, and Covid game cancelations all year. Then to see our point leader sit out as the first Blue to even get Covid all year (sprinkle in our best dman getting knocked out by a repeat offender scumbag) and the list goes on.

He had a very similar 2019-2020 but was focused and looking like his Jan-June version 2019 before Covid hit right before the playoffs

 

[Stlblue50]

That being said, you have to give Husso a lot of games until he slows down. If he doesn’t that he is giving the Blues no choice but to play him. Putting up the numbers he has with very limited amount of games is completely different than doing it as a starter

 

[Majorityof1]

first of all ive always said keumper and lehner SUCK are not cup quality goaltenders so those numbers just validate how bad binnington has been. and if thats the sort of goaltending you get from him this year and hes fed starts, we will NOT be a playoff team.

im so tired of the binnington apologists. its the brian elliott/allen situation all over again when elliott totally shit the bed in 2015 meanwhile our backups are playing lights out. there is ZERO reason Binnington should be playing right now until he figures out how to consistently stop pucks. if berube wants to have this team struggle for a playoff spot then he can keep playing binnington.

why is it that every other goalie we call up, including a dude we had play 1 game then traded, is able to spit out top 3 star performances every time they play meanwhile this dude who is making 6 million a year is spitting out .875 save pct as the norm and is shielded from ANY criticism because of things he did 3 years ago? this guy needs to get his head out of his ass and start performing, a goalies job is to stop the MISTAKES your team makes. everyone is gonna have a bad game every now and then, but this has been the norm since the bubble and ESPECIALLY the past 2 seasons.

His save pct is dropping EVERY year yet hes shielded from any sort of criticism. its beyond sad. its just like how elliott was praised here for years and when they traded him for KYROU all the elliott homers said it was the end of the world and how a guy who just took us to the 3rd round would never be replaced.

the blues are good enough that they dont even need 5 star performances every night but the dude just has to stop the pucks he needs to stop and hes not doing it this year.

So is Allen good or bad? You trash Allen all the time when you are talking just about Allen, or when you compare Binnington to Allen. Yet when you spin your revisionist history against Elliott, Allen is suddenly the obvious choice. That makes no sense. Not that you have ever made any kind of sense. But decide if Allen was great or shit. I mean of course you won't, because its easy to always be right when you pick every side and ignore the times you are wrong.

Also, when did Elliott shit the bed for any extended period of time? He ended 2014-15 with a .917 and a 2.26. He put up a ridiculous .930 and 2.07 the next season. He is 2nd amongst any Blues goalie with 10+ games in career save percentage and first in GAA. If he did have a bad stretch, it was a pretty good idea to stick with him and not make a knee-jerk reaction to go with the flash-in-the-pan backup. Its kinda dumb to bring that up when it directly contradicts your point.

As for Binnington , he isn't immune to criticism. He's been bad. However, when you are out on a crusade to railroad the guy for every goal against, the obvious counter reaction is to be overly defensive. Lindgren is not that anwer. He's just got lit up in the AHL. 3 GA on 4 shots. He's almost 30 years old and has never shown anything near what he did for those 5 games. He is what he is, and he thankfully had a hot streak when we needed it. Our guys also busted their ass for him for 5 games, but you can't count on that elite level of play for an extended period of time. Thar protect the 3rd string goalie and rally the team mentality can only last so long.

We are much better served trying to rehabilitate Binnington than riding a borderline NHL goalie's hot streak. We are stuck with Binnington for years due to the contract. We know he once has had the stuff to win a cup. So while we are still comfortably in a playoff spot, let's let him work through it. Give Husso more starts than you would if Binnington was cruising, but keep playing Binner. If the race starts to tighten, or as we get to the playoffs, then pull him if he hasn't figured it out.

 

[TheDizee]

So is Allen good or bad? You trash Allen all the time when you are talking just about Allen, or when you compare Binnington to Allen. Yet when you spin your revisionist history against Elliott, Allen is suddenly the obvious choice. That makes no sense. Not that you have ever made any kind of sense. But decide if Allen was great or shit. I mean of course you won't, because its easy to always be right when you pick every side and ignore the times you are wrong.

Also, when did Elliott shit the bed for any extended period of time? He ended 2014-15 with a .917 and a 2.26. He put up a ridiculous .930 and 2.07 the next season. He is 2nd amongst any Blues goalie with 10+ games in career save percentage and first in GAA. If he did have a bad stretch, it was a pretty good idea to stick with him and not make a knee-jerk reaction to go with the flash-in-the-pan backup. Its kinda dumb to bring that up when it directly contradicts your point.

As for Binnington , he isn't immune to criticism. He's been bad. However, when you are out on a crusade to railroad the guy for every goal against, the obvious counter reaction is to be overly defensive. Lindgren is not that anwer. He's just got lit up in the AHL. 3 GA on 4 shots. He's almost 30 years old and has never shown anything near what he did for those 5 games. He is what he is, and he thankfully had a hot streak when we needed it. Our guys also busted their ass for him for 5 games, but you can't count on that elite level of play for an extended period of time. Thar protect the 3rd string goalie and rally the team mentality can only last so long.

We are much better served trying to rehabilitate Binnington than riding a borderline NHL goalie's hot streak. We are stuck with Binnington for years due to the contract. We know he once has had the stuff to win a cup. So while we are still comfortably in a playoff spot, let's let him work through it. Give Husso more starts than you would if Binnington was cruising, but keep playing Binner. If the race starts to tighten, or as we get to the playoffs, then pull him if he hasn't figured it out.

the owner of the St Louis Elliotts has made a appearance.

when did elliott shit the bed? do you not remember his play down the stretch in 2015 when he got DEMOTED by hitch and allen took over? how about the time in 2013 or so when he got sent down to the AHL to get his head right and play back on track. elliott is the type of goaltender in the same tier as Graburer or Lehner. You can win reg season games with them but they won't EVER sniff the cup as a starter.

the fact is years ago you bet on the wrong horse and still will not OWN it. i always said all i wanted is consistent goaltenders who stop what need to be stop, nothing more. allen was FAR better than elliott during his tenure as a blue and he has a CUP to prove it. Allen's play in the Minnesota series in 2017 is far better than ANY series Elliott ever had here. You can say he won the cup as a backup but you know what? Blues dont have enough points in the bank to qualify for the playoffs without Allen. I will take take Allen over Elliott ANY DAY of the week.

Now as far as Binnington goes, the guy flat out has been mediocre to absolute dog shit since the bubble. he needs to channel his inner 2019 and get back to that form. I dont have a problem with Binnington at all if he performs up to the contract he signed. If he continues to play like dog shit, I will continue to call him out.

 

[Moose and Squirrel]

So is Allen good or bad? You trash Allen all the time when you are talking just about Allen, or when you compare Binnington to Allen. Yet when you spin your revisionist history against Elliott, Allen is suddenly the obvious choice. That makes no sense. Not that you have ever made any kind of sense. But decide if Allen was great or shit. I mean of course you won't, because its easy to always be right when you pick every side and ignore the times you are wrong.

Also, when did Elliott shit the bed for any extended period of time? He ended 2014-15 with a .917 and a 2.26. He put up a ridiculous .930 and 2.07 the next season. He is 2nd amongst any Blues goalie with 10+ games in career save percentage and first in GAA. If he did have a bad stretch, it was a pretty good idea to stick with him and not make a knee-jerk reaction to go with the flash-in-the-pan backup. Its kinda dumb to bring that up when it directly contradicts your point.

As for Binnington , he isn't immune to criticism. He's been bad. However, when you are out on a crusade to railroad the guy for every goal against, the obvious counter reaction is to be overly defensive. Lindgren is not that anwer. He's just got lit up in the AHL. 3 GA on 4 shots. He's almost 30 years old and has never shown anything near what he did for those 5 games. He is what he is, and he thankfully had a hot streak when we needed it. Our guys also busted their ass for him for 5 games, but you can't count on that elite level of play for an extended period of time. Thar protect the 3rd string goalie and rally the team mentality can only last so long.

We are much better served trying to rehabilitate Binnington than riding a borderline NHL goalie's hot streak. We are stuck with Binnington for years due to the contract. We know he once has had the stuff to win a cup. So while we are still comfortably in a playoff spot, let's let him work through it. Give Husso more starts than you would if Binnington was cruising, but keep playing Binner. If the race starts to tighten, or as we get to the playoffs, then pull him if he hasn't figured it out.

that last paragraph is spot on. good post. logical.... now show yourself out

 

[ezcreepin]

the owner of the St Louis Elliotts has made a appearance.

when did elliott shit the bed? do you not remember his play down the stretch in 2015 when he got DEMOTED by hitch and allen took over? how about the time in 2013 or so when he got sent down to the AHL to get his head right and play back on track. elliott is the type of goaltender in the same tier as Graburer or Lehner. You can win reg season games with them but they won't EVER sniff the cup as a starter.

the fact is years ago you bet on the wrong horse and still will not OWN it. i always said all i wanted is consistent goaltenders who stop what need to be stop, nothing more. allen was FAR better than elliott during his tenure as a blue and he has a CUP to prove it. Allen's play in the Minnesota series in 2017 is far better than ANY series Elliott ever had here. You can say he won the cup as a backup but you know what? Blues dont have enough points in the bank to qualify for the playoffs without Allen. I will take take Allen over Elliott ANY DAY of the week.

Now as far as Binnington goes, the guy flat out has been mediocre to absolute dog shit since the bubble. he needs to channel his inner 2019 and get back to that form. I dont have a problem with Binnington at all if he performs up to the contract he signed. If he continues to play like dog shit, I will continue to call him out.

I'm not here to defend Elliott or Allen because I don't have to, but Elliott was head and shoulders better than Allen over their entire tenures here. There is absolutely no question about it, and the numbers speak for themselves. Want to compare win rate? Elliott had a 0.634% while Allen had 0.546%. That's 104 wins vs 148 wins respectively in 108 less games for Elliott. Want to compare GAA? Elliott had 2.01 while Allen had 2.50. Ok well what about save percentage? Elliott beat Allen with a 0.925% vs a 0.913%. Ok well surely Allen had more shutouts since he played 108 games more right? Nope, Elliott had 25 shutouts over his 5 year tenure while Allen had 21 over his 7 year tenure. Do we want to compare playoffs? Ok sure you got me there, Allen DID have better stats than Elliott over their tenures. Allen had a remarkably good gaa at 2.06 vs Elliott's 2.32. Allen also had a higher save percent at 0.924% vs Elliott's 0.917%. Both of their records in the playoffs suck, but that just comes down to luck at any given point. Elliott had 1 shutout while Jake had none. The ironic part about this though is that Elliott's playoffs stats over his career here are better than Binnington's cup run.

To answer your question though about who I'd rather have Allen vs Elliott if we could go back in time? To be honest, I don't really even care because they both leave something to be desired. Both had good stretches and both had bad stretches. But let's not kid ourselves here, Elliott had a way more productive Blues career than Allen ever did. Even if Allen stole the Minny series, he didn't take us to game 5 of the Conference Finals by himself like Elliott did.

 

[Majorityof1]

the owner of the St Louis Elliotts has made a appearance.

Is this supposed to be an insult? I mean I'd love to report you for insulting me and get you suspended. But if this is the best insult you can think of, I just feel bad for you.

when did elliott shit the bed? do you not remember his play down the stretch in 2015 when he got DEMOTED by hitch and allen took over?

Seriously, when was this in 2015? Check his game log. He has no extended stretches of poor play. He stats are better than Allen's in both years. So even if he did have a bad stretch, Allen was worse overall. Objectively, irrefutably based on stats. You are using stats to pick Lindgren over Binnington and say you don't care about who faces the better team or who we play better in front of. So you should use the same logic (ha, as if you would ever use logic) on Allen v Elliott. Done, end of argument.

Toodooloo, Mr. Always Wrong. Keep tilting at windmills in your imagined fights with the referees. Its what you are best at. Leave actual hockey discussion to people who have at least an inkling of what they are talking about.