Half-Assed GDT: Leafs vs Blues

[ScratchCatFever]

It never ceases to amaze me how unhinged this board can become when the going gets tough, or a particular player isn't performing up to their standard.

That being said, Binny needs to be a helluva lot better, consistently on a night to night basis, and Husso probably should get consecutive starts to make a case for himself and hopefully light a fire under 50's ass.. But I'm not ready to run him out of town to go bag groceries or whatever the hell that nonsense that was suggested above. That's a pretty callous take on a guy who ended 5 decades of misery for an entire fanbase just 3 years ago.

I don't think there are many people who actually view him as a true elite level goaltender, but I also believe he's the type that can elevate his play when it matters most.. Chris Osgood is a comparable goaltender to Binny imo. His numbers look underwhelmingly average but he had a great team in front of him and was able to win big games.
I feel like knowing Binnington's history and the road he traveled to get here that we should wait to see how he responds over the next 6 weeks or so before we start to worry about the future implications of his contract and place in the organization.

 

[ezcreepin]

It never ceases to amaze me how unhinged this board can become when the going gets tough, or a particular player isn't performing up to their standard.

That being said, Binny needs to be a helluva lot better, consistently on a night to night basis, and Husso probably should get consecutive starts to make a case for himself and hopefully light a fire under 50's ass.. But I'm not ready to run him out of town to go bag groceries or whatever the hell that nonsense that was suggested above. That's a pretty callous take on a guy who ended 5 decades of misery for an entire fanbase just 3 years ago.

I don't think there are many people who actually view him as a true elite level goaltender, but I also believe he's the type that can elevate his play when it matters most.. Chris Osgood is a comparable goaltender to Binny imo. His numbers look underwhelmingly average but he had a great team in front of him and was able to win big games.
I feel like knowing Binnington's history and the road he traveled to get here that we should wait to see how he responds over the next 6 weeks or so before we start to worry about the future implications of his contract and place in the organization.

Let's not beat around the bush, Binnington has had an extremely underwhelming 2 playoffs since winning the cup, but I think the overreaction is kinda stupid right now. I'll give him a pass on the 2020 playoffs, but if he continues to have below average performances, then I think we should be worried. Husso may end up being the guy who can stop the bleeding, but Binnington isn't close to losing the reigns just yet.

 

[Xerloris]

Technically I'm a season ticket holder and pay thousands of dollars each year, which goes toward player salary, so I absolutely have a right to demand a better performance. Without people like me the league doesn't exist and Jordan is a grocery store clerk or something. If you want to talk "technicalities", "technically" you're f***ing wrong.

Go to your local grocery store and tell them that since you shop there you get to decide if they fire the bagboy or not. Let me know how that goes.




Also to the people talking about Binnngton having poor playoffs since the cup run I want to remind you of last years playoffs. He absolutely stood on his head for the majority of the game every game and it would have taken Jesus himself to put on the mask for us to have beaten to the Avalanche. The TEAM last year was not going to win against the Avalanche no matter what happened but Binnongton gave it his best shot and if you don't remember that go back and watch game one and then politely stfu.

 

[A Real Barn Burner]

Even if the team does play better in front of goalies not named Binnington (which I doubt) why wouldn't you still play the goalie they play better for?

My original response was in regards to post suggesting we would have to dump Binny. I have no problem giving Husso more starts vs Binny as long as his play is better. Playing the hot hand is rarely a problem. However, a realistic expectation is that Husso is not ready to be a starter and will slow down with an increased workload. Cases like Binny, Hammond, and Murray are an exception not the norm.

I hope Husso continues to challenge Binny for the starter role and I hope Binny respond to the challenge and gets better.

I also hope this team realize they have to commit to playing defense. Many of our defeats have been because we are being lazy and not committing to playing the way we need to in order to win come April.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I am glad Husso is playing better, but I don’t have a comfortable feeling about him being ready to carry a starter’s load after he’s had, what 7? games this year where he’s played well.

 

[BlueMed]

Let's not beat around the bush, Binnington has had an extremely underwhelming 2 playoffs since winning the cup, but I think the overreaction is kinda stupid right now. I'll give him a pass on the 2020 playoffs, but if he continues to have below average performances, then I think we should be worried. Husso may end up being the guy who can stop the bleeding, but Binnington isn't close to losing the reigns just yet.

That's an interesting take.

 

[ezcreepin]

That's an interesting take.

He may have given the Blues a chance to win, however slight it was, but his numbers were f***ing awful. Below 0.900 and above 3 gaa? No matter how you slice it, you aren't going to win many series playing like that. Saros couldn't do it with those numbers, Bobrovsky couldn't, Hellebuyck couldn't, Jarry couldn't. Basically, no matter how good your team should be, you're more than likely not winning that series. Sometimes the other team is just better.

 

[BlueMed]

He may have given the Blues a chance to win, however slight it was, but his numbers were f***ing awful. Below 0.900 and above 3 gaa? No matter how you slice it, you aren't going to win many series playing like that. Saros couldn't do it with those numbers, Bobrovsky couldn't, Hellebuyck couldn't, Jarry couldn't. Basically, no matter how good your team should be, you're more than likely not winning that series. Sometimes the other team is just better.

Are GAA and save percentage solely a function of goaltender performance?

 

[Renard]

As a season ticket holder, you can demand better performance from the Blues as a team but not necessarily from a player individually. You do not directly pay the salaries of the players. Being a fan is not technically the same thing as being an employer or a GM as much as fans like to think so.

Fans sued a player who angered them. The court ruled against the fans, finding that they didn't have a contractual relationship with the player. I think it was Yashin.

 

[execwrite1]

It's a results business. No excuses.

Start Husso Monday and Friday and see what happens.

 

[AjaxManifesto]

I'm turning the page on this one.

I was sour most of Sunday...

When you lose games you could have won, it sucks.

Best to just move on than to dwell about it.

 

[TheDizee]

I'm turning the page on this one.

I was sour most of Sunday...

When you lose games you could have won, it sucks.

Best to just move on than to dwell about it.

Lost Pittsburgh and Toronto games because our goaltender had third period meltdowns. Give him a pass for the Pittsburgh game due to the fact that the team in front of him sucked and the officiating was garbage. Toronto game is all on him.

 

[TheDizee]

Is this supposed to be an insult? I mean I'd love to report you for insulting me and get you suspended. But if this is the best insult you can think of, I just feel bad for you.



Seriously, when was this in 2015? Check his game log. He has no extended stretches of poor play. He stats are better than Allen's in both years. So even if he did have a bad stretch, Allen was worse overall. Objectively, irrefutably based on stats. You are using stats to pick Lindgren over Binnington and say you don't care about who faces the better team or who we play better in front of. So you should use the same logic (ha, as if you would ever use logic) on Allen v Elliott. Done, end of argument.

Toodooloo, Mr. Always Wrong. Keep tilting at windmills in your imagined fights with the referees. Its what you are best at. Leave actual hockey discussion to people who have at least an inkling of what they are talking about.

"he had no extended stretches of poor play" LMAO!

idk why the elliott hill is the hill you want to fight on but i have no problem being the reality check to your elliott delusions. as usual, RIGHT AGAIN

allen > elliott

 

[Bluesnatic27]

The Allen romanticism by some is truly one of the most befuddling things on this board.

 

[Brian39]

That's an interesting take.

Binner was phenomenal in game 1 and kept us in a game we had no business being in. But he wasn't very good in games 2 and 3.

In game 2, we were down 3-0 just 23 into the game. Goal #1 was a deflection on a point shot that went 5 hole. He didn't open his 5 hole by tracking the puck and extending his leg for the initial shot. He simply didn't seal the ice in his butterfly. Goal #2 was a wrist shot from the faceoff dot that beat him under the blocker short side. Goal #3 was a seeing eye deflection that he had no chance on. We battled back to make it 3-2 in the 3rd and then goal #4 was a wrist shot from the point. There was plenty of traffic, but he tracked it fairly well and attempted to punch the shot away instead of shruging hi blocker to the corner where the shot went. None of them were egregiously bad goals, but these were hardly 4 shots where you would say the goalie had no chance and the D was terrible. It was 3 point shots and a non-one-timer from the faceoff dot on a PP. He got some tough luck, but this game is not evidence of him doing everything he could while the team sucked. I thought it was a sub-par night.

In game 3, we outshot the Avs 32-25. Goal #1 was Binner making an absolutely terrible decision to try and win a race to a loose puck. He started insanely late and the Avs player beat him to the puck at the hash mark. But Binner was so far out of position that he left a mostly empty net. Goal #2 was buried into a mostly empty net after he allowed a big rebound on a shot low and far side. It wasn't the worst rebound in the world, but it was also not great. He was square to the initial shot and should have controlled it better. Goal#3 is a rebound following a very strong 2-1 save. This is the first "no chance" goal of the game IMO. But combined with a bad goal and a mediocre rebound goal, we're down 3-0 while leasing in shots 20-14. He played well to keep us alive, but Colorado essentially ends the game 13 minutes into the 3rd on a nifty 2-1 pass/deke combo that he didn't have a chance on. I wouldn't say Binner was terrible this game, but he definitely wasn't good. We were the better team and lost because Grubauer was very good and our goalie was mediocre-to-bad. I would have felt like a comeback was possible if the series was 2-1. It was over when we went down 3-0.

I liked his play in game 4. He made some big saves early and gave us a chance. Goal #1 was an unscreened wrist shot from above the top of the circle on a shot he had a chance to get set on. Goal #2 was a dirty tip that he didn't have a chance on. Goal #3 was a decently executed 2-1 that ended with him getting beat 5 hole on a shot from distance. I wouldn't describe any of these as bad goals, but goals 1 and 3 were savable. I don't know that you should expect your goalie to save either, but it be nice to get a save on 1 of the 2. My opinion of his game was still overall positive because he had a number of great saves that offset the minor frustration of both going in.

Binner absolutely didn't cost us that series. We were very clearly the lesser team. But he also was below average overall and only gave us a chance to win 2 of the 4 games. I think that a lot of people remember game 1 and feel like the entire series was like that. I don't think it is proof that he can't elevate his game again like he did in 2019, but it isn't a useless data point. He struggled in that series (just like the entire team).

 

[ezcreepin]

Are GAA and save percentage solely a function of goaltender performance?

I'm gonna go ahead and assume you agree that multiple things don't have to be mutually exclusive in this case. Binnington can simultaneously have bad numbers and give the team a chance to win while the Blues are playing bad in front of him. Sometimes (hopefully not often) you have to rely on your goalie, much like we did against Minnesota. The fact is, when you're saving less than 90% of the shots you face and are letting in 3+ goals a game, you aren't going to win very often. Now, it may be asking a lot of Binnington to singlehandedly win the series, but as I said at the very end of my comment, sometimes the other team is just better. We knew we were in a tough spot with Perron and Faulk out, with Parayko being less than 100%, and the team playing subpar.

 

[Blueston]

A lot of this is us being hypocritically over-critical. We expect our goalie to stop basically every shot, while at same time crediting our forwards for great finish when other goalie is beat. The 6th goal was awful, but we hung Binner out to dry most if the game.

 

[Moose and Squirrel]

A lot of this is us being hypocritically over-critical. We expect our goalie to stop basically every shot, while at same time crediting ourfitwards for great finish when other goalie is beat. The 6th goal was awful, but we hung Binner out to dry most if the game.

you act like you actually watched the game... how dare you..

 

[BlueMed]

I'm gonna go ahead and assume you agree that multiple things don't have to be mutually exclusive in this case. Binnington can simultaneously have bad numbers and give the team a chance to win while the Blues are playing bad in front of him. Sometimes (hopefully not often) you have to rely on your goalie, much like we did against Minnesota. The fact is, when you're saving less than 90% of the shots you face and are letting in 3+ goals a game, you aren't going to win very often. Now, it may be asking a lot of Binnington to singlehandedly win the series, but as I said at the very end of my comment, sometimes the other team is just better. We knew we were in a tough spot with Perron and Faulk out, with Parayko being less than 100%, and the team playing subpar.

A goaltender can absolutely be at fault for his own poor GAA and Save Percentage, but that's not always the case and therefore you cannot use those values to summarize a goaltender's performance. Statistics are multi-variable, and people need to learn how to accept that.

 

[Moose and Squirrel]

A goaltender can absolutely be at fault for his own poor GAA and Save Percentage, but that's not always the case and therefore you cannot use those values to summarize a goaltender's performance. Statistics are multi-variable, and people need to learn how to accept that.

how dare you drag logic and common sense into this...

now take all that and show yourself out... and take that Blueston guy with you

 

[Celtic Note]

The Allen romanticism by some is truly one of the most befuddling things on this board.

I was just looking up historical Blues stats and realized that Allen and Binnington have the same Sv% in a Bluenote.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I was just looking up historical Blues stats and realized that Allen and Binnington have the same Sv% in a Bluenote.

I think Binnington's puck-handling contributes a lot if the saves are otherwise literally equal to another goalie. It sure made a big difference in the Cup run.

 

[ezcreepin]

A goaltender can absolutely be at fault for his own poor GAA and Save Percentage, but that's not always the case and therefore you cannot use those values to summarize a goaltender's performance. Statistics are multi-variable, and people need to learn how to accept that.

I'm perfectly fine with accepting that a goaltender's play is multi-variable, hell I'm even willing to concede my side, but I don't think there is enough data for you to substantiate your claims. I don't think the data we have available to us fans is enough to make a strong claim that a team was bad or that the opponent was just a better team. There's not enough ways as it stands to quantify what we see in the game that is going to be easy for you to say that Binnington was fine and the Blues just sucked. So unless you can compile enough data to represent your side of the argument, we are more or less stuck with analyzing numbers to make broader claims about a team or player's play.

 

[Blueston]

I'm perfectly fine with accepting that a goaltender's play is multi-variable, hell I'm even willing to concede my side, but I don't think there is enough data for you to substantiate your claims. I don't think the data we have available to us fans is enough to make a strong claim that a team was bad or that the opponent was just a better team. There's not enough ways as it stands to quantify what we see in the game that is going to be easy for you to say that Binnington was fine and the Blues just sucked. So unless you can compile enough data to represent your side of the argument, we are more or less stuck with analyzing numbers to make broader claims about a team or player's play.

Or if you watch enough games you can make educated assessment based upon viewings.

 

[ezcreepin]

Or if you watch enough games you can make educated assessment based upon viewings.

Watching or using the "eye test" isn't enough to make an argument, no matter how enthusiastic you are in your convictions. Hockey is a flawed sport statistically for this reason (not statistically meaning 4th behind baseball, football, etc).