Confirmed with Link: Leafs signed Ron Hainsey to a 2 year deal $6 mil ($3 mil AAV)

[Damisoph]

also, do we know that Hunwick was let go? or did maybe he get an offer from the stanley cup champs and chose them? Babcock said a couple weeks ago they wanted to sign hunwick but its also up to the player

Seems like he wanted a third year that the Leafs were not willing to offer.

 

[Walshy7]

This is a horrendous argument. Robidas was coming off a 2nd broken leg in two years.

I find it hilarious that people are pining for Hunwick after calling him junk for two years.

if we signed hunwick, people would say "same D again, we should of went for Hainsey" its always the same, the grass is always greener

 

[Walshy7]

Seems like he wanted a third year that the Leafs were not willing to offer.

yep and good for the leafs, 2 year deal is perfect for us

 

[pylon17]

Are you sure about Carrick?.

Leafs Dcore playoff TOI/g

Gardiner: ..... 28:38
Rielly: .......... 26:53
Hunwick: ...... 25:39
Zaitsev: ........21:45
Polak: ..........17:37
Marincin: ......16:53
Carrick:.........12:16

http://www.espn.com/nhl/team/stats/_/name/tor/cat/avgTimeOnIce

Even Marincin played + 4 minutes a night on average than Carrick, and Hunwick played +4 more minutes than Zaitsev in Leafs top 4.

Put in context with Hainsey all he has to do add the minutes Hunwick provided, and be better than Carrick, Marincin, Marchenko to play top 4 minutes. That is more a statement of Leafs weak defense group that makes him #4 than it speaks to Hainsey abilities.

Yeah it fits together seamlessly. Hainsey replaces Hunwick. I expect Polak will be back and he'll partner with whichever one of Dermott/Rosen/Borgman/Valiev wins the other bottom pair spot. And then I expect Marincin/Carrick/Marchenko to be our 7-8-9 D, with one probably lost on waivers or traded.

13 D deep:

1. Gardiner
2. Rielly
3. Zaitsev
4. Hainsey
5. Polak
6. Dermott
7-8-9. Marincin/Carrick/Marchenko
10-11-12. Rosen/Borgman/Valiev
13. Holl
------------------------------------------------
Liljegren/Greenway/Nielsen/Rasanen/Gordeev/Middleton (marinating)

 

[thewave]

yep and good for the leafs, 2 year deal is perfect for us

I think this was actually our target and we outbid PIT. Hainsey is a better fit for our needs. Morgan NEEDS a guy that can do what he does.

Totally a targeted upgrade and the best available player fittig the criteria.

 

[Mess]

Yeah it fits together seamlessly. Hainsey replaces Hunwick. I expect Polak will be back and he'll partner with whichever one of Dermott/Rosen/Borgman/Valiev wins the other bottom pair spot. And then I expect Marincin/Carrick/Marchenko to be our 7-8-9 D, with one probably lost on waivers or traded.

13 D deep:

1. Gardiner
2. Rielly
3. Zaitsev
4. Hainsey
5. Polak
6. Dermott
7-8-9. Marincin/Carrick/Marchenko
10-11-12. Rosen/Borgman/Valiev
13. Holl
------------------------------------------------
Liljegren/Greenway/Nielsen (marinating)

I see it somewhat similar with Dermott, Rosen, Borgman competing for that bottom pairing.

Hainsey replaces Hunwick but is 4" bigger and 20lbs heavier and adds some veteran leadership, but only a stop-gap measure for development time.

Ideally Leafs would love to add a true younger top 4 dman partner for Rielly if possible, or wait and see how Liljegren comes along but that still may take years. I'm not convinced Leafs are done here and will still add to the defense before the season begins likely in trade.

The future vision of the present might look something like this in time.

Rielly -- Liljegren
Gardiner -- Zaitsev
Dermott -- Rasanen

 

[RoadWarrior]

Actually, Carrick's ice time in the playoffs was:
WSH APR 23 10:26
WSH APR 21 06:31
WSH APR 19 12:33
WSH APR 17 11:19
WSH APR 15 18:44

Carrick replaced no one in the top 4.

For a lengthy period of the regular season Carrick replaced Hunwick in the top 4 after Hunwick was badly exposed.

Making your argument by limiting the sample size to 6 games is ridiculous. I'm sure there was a 6 game stretch of the regular season where Connor Brown outscored Crosby but no serious person would argue that was representative of their body of work.

 

[zeke]

Did you like the Robidas signing in the past also when he was 37?

Leafs aren't building their long-term plans around Hainsey going on 37. This is only a stop gap situation, buying development time for younger players and adding some size and experience to a Dcore that lacks that component.

Every team needs some veteran leadership and experience, and Leafs bought themselves "time" by this short-term gap filler.

if hainsey was coming off 2 horrendous leg injuries, that comp might worry me.

 

[Mess]

For a lengthy period of the regular season Carrick replaced Hunwick in the top 4 after Hunwick was badly exposed.

Making your argument by limiting the sample size to 6 games is ridiculous. I'm sure there was a 6 game stretch of the regular season where Connor Brown outscored Crosby but no serious person would argue that was representative of their body of work.

If you check the TOI/g in the regular season you will see Carrick gets among the least of all Dmen except for waiver wire claim Marchenko.

http://www.espn.com/nhl/team/stats/_/name/tor/seasontype/2/cat/avgTimeOnIce

Babcock prefers big Dmen witih size, and that is why he plays Marincin more minutes than Carrick whenever possible. I'm sure he is thrilled by having 6-3/210 Dman Hainsey replacing the 5-11/190 Hunwick feeling he can get similar minutes.

It wasn't really about Carrick seen as better it was that Babs liked what he saw in the Hunwick - Polak veteran pairing, feeling he could play them against the opposition. Carrick TOI/g was still less than the 2 veteran Dman.

Having Hainsey means he doesn't have to play Carrick in the top 4 at all now as he is forced to compete for a job on the bottom pairing and try and hold off challengers from below.

 

[thewave]

People are debating why Carricks numbers went down... Jake Gardiner. Carrick can not be lifted without Jake. Z? Jake Gardiner.

Jake is an amazing defender that gets no credit.

 

[Mess]

Lets be honest here.

All Hainsey has to do is be better than Marincin, Marchenko (who were exposed to Vegas) and likely waiver wire material this year (fringe 7/8 dmen) or beat out little Connor Carrick whom Babs preferred to use 16 minutes or less whenever possible (reg 16:20 and playoffs 12:16).

This speaks to the current sad state of affairs of how weak the Leafs defense group is after the top 3, so the bar is so low for Hainsey here to improve the defense by his addition, that its almost impossible not to really.

 

[RoadWarrior]

If you check the TOI/g in the regular season you will see Carrick gets among the least of all Dmen except for waiver wire claim Marchenko.

http://www.espn.com/nhl/team/stats/_/name/tor/seasontype/2/cat/avgTimeOnIce

Babcock prefers big Dmen witih size, and that is why he plays Marincin more minutes than Carrick whenever possible. I'm sure he is thrilled by having 6-3/210 Dman Hainsey replacing the 5-11/190 Hunwick feeling he can get similar minutes.

It wasn't really about Carrick seen as better it was that Babs liked what he saw in the Hunwick - Polak veteran pairing, feeling he could play them against the opposition. Carrick TOI/g was still less than the 2 veteran Dman.

Having Hainsey means he doesn't have to play Carrick in the top 4 at all now as he is forced to compete for a job on the bottom pairing and try and hold off challengers from below.

Now you've come full circle lol. Yes signing Hainsey ensures a bottom pairing role for Carrick in the short term which is precisely why Hainsey was a better signing than Matt Hunwick who can't play the right side or be trusted with over 18 minutes of ice time.

Hainsey should help anchor Morgan Rielly allowing him to take more offensive chances.

 

[zeke]

Mess, i never did understand how you can apparently watch so much leafs hockey and talk so much out of your ass about things that obviously aren't true.

This is how our D was used this year.

Even Strength

1.Rielly 18:49
2.Gardiner 18:40
3.Zaitsev 18:17

4.Carrick 15:30
5.Hunwick 15:15
6.Marincin 15:10
7.Polak 15:00

8.Marchenko 13:47
9.Corrado 13:36

We had 3 full time top 4 dmen.

Then we had 4 other guys who each filled in that last top 4 spot at times, with Carrick being leaned on for top 4 duty the most of them.

Then we had another 2 fill ins that were strictly bottom pair.


Penalty Kill

1.Polak 2:54
2.Marincin 2:49
3.Hunwick 2:39
4.Rielly 2:22
5.Zaitsev 1:49

6.Corrado 0:23
7.Marchenko 0:19
8.Gardiner 0:18
9.Carrick 0:16

We had 2 full time PK units in Hunwick-Polak and Rielly-Zaitsev. Marincin also got big PK duty when he played. nobody else played the PK.



As of right now, Hainsey would slide right into that top4 spot on even strength, as he's one of the top ES TOI Dmen every year, and will take over one of those top unit PK slots as well. My guess is that Marincin, who babcock often referred to as our best PKer, will take over a 3rd pairing spot at ES and join Hainsey on the top PK unit. Carrick is the favorite for the other 3rd pairing spot but i bet he comes under heavy competition for it from the smooth skating Rosen.

 

[pylon17]

People are debating why Carricks numbers went down... Jake Gardiner. Carrick can not be lifted without Jake. Z? Jake Gardiner.

Jake is an amazing defender that gets no credit.

He reminds me so much of Kaberle it's not funny. Great offensively, but not physical, weak in the corners and not a great defender. Good but not great. Rielly plays much harder minutes than Gardiner; probably why he's underrated, because he doesn't usually play against the other team's most dangerous offensive players; that is what Rielly does.

 

[zeke]

Lets be honest here.

All Hainsey has to do is be better than Marincin, Marchenko (who were exposed to Vegas) and likely waiver wire material this year (fringe 7/8 dmen) or beat out little Connor Carrick whom Babs preferred to use 16 minutes or less whenever possible (reg 16:20 and playoffs 12:16).

This speaks to the current sad state of affairs of how weak the Leafs defense group is after the top 3, so the bar is so low for Hainsey here to improve the defense by his addition, that its almost impossible not to really.

heh

as it stands even right now we are forcing Hainsey into a lower D slot than he has ever had in his career before, and a lower slot than he had last year on either team he was on - both of whom i'm guessing you thought had better dcorps than the leafs.

 

[Stand Witness]

Opening up to this signing. I like Mirtle's opinion and he convinced me via his article with The Athletic that this was a good move. Honestly, Hainsey could very well end up playing a lessor role with us too. He has played a lot of 5v5 ice time and has been borderline elite on the PK from what I have seen. He could be similar to Marc Methot for us.

2 years is what keeps this okay for me.

 

[Suntouchable13]

He reminds me so much of Kaberle it's not funny. Great offensively, but not physical, weak in the corners and not a great defender. Good but not great. Rielly plays much harder minutes than Gardiner; probably why he's underrated, because he doesn't usually play against the other team's most dangerous offensive players; that is what Rielly does.

Kabby was a lot more skilled.

 

[Mess]

Hainsey should help anchor Morgan Rielly allowing him to take more offensive chances.

Unless the Leafs go out and trade for an actual top 4 dman like say Jason Demers to pair with Morgan, and then Hainsey can play 3rd pairing with perhaps someone like Dermott to mentor him.

However until then, Hainsey is as good as it gets and beggars can't be choosers as the say goes.

Still lots of summer ahead for the Leafs to make potential improvements to the defense.

Gardiner -- Zaitsev
Rielly ----- Demers
Dermott -- Hainsey

Would look a lot better than what we have at the moment.

 

[LeafFever]

Lets be honest here.

All Hainsey has to do is be better than Marincin, Marchenko (who were exposed to Vegas) and likely waiver wire material this year (fringe 7/8 dmen) or beat out little Connor Carrick whom Babs preferred to use 16 minutes or less whenever possible (reg 16:20 and playoffs 12:16).

This speaks to the current sad state of affairs of how weak the Leafs defense group is after the top 3, so the bar is so low for Hainsey here to improve the defense by his addition, that its almost impossible not to really.

So Hainsy is looking to take a much lesser role with the Leafs than he had with the cup champs, and yet that shows the sad state of affairs of our D?

Hainsy's career AVG TOI throughout his entire career in many different organizations say he'll likely play the least he's ever had with the Leafs.

 

[zeke]

Unless the Leafs go out and trade for an actual top 4 dman like say Jason Demers to pair with Morgan, and then Hainsey can play 3rd pairing with perhaps someone like Dermott to mentor him.

However until then, Hainsey is as good as it gets and beggars can't be choosers as the say goes.

Still lots of summer ahead for the Leafs to make potential improvements to the defense.

Gardiner -- Zaitsev
Rielly ----- Demers
Dermott -- Hainsey

Would look a lot better than what we have at the moment.

demers played much less last year on a team much worse than either team hainsey played for.

 

[LeafFever]

Demers is not that good. Leaf fans always want someone else who is not as good.

 

[thewave]

Demers is not that good. Leaf fans always want someone else who is not as good.

It puzzles doesn't it.

 

[LeafFever]

It puzzles doesn't it.

There are people here crapping on Hainsy-and look at the end result. He played such a bigger role than anyone expected in Pittsburgh and he has a cup ring. Demers was terrible on a bottom feeder and will be more expensive in cap hit and term.

Meanwhile Rielly and Gardiner looked fantastic in the playoffs and no one remembers.

 

[Mess]

So Hainsy is looking to take a much lesser role with the Leafs than he had with the cup champs, and yet that shows the sad state of affairs of our D?

Hainsy's career AVG TOI throughout his entire career in many different organizations say he'll likely play the least he's ever had with the Leafs.

Hainsey played 14 seasons and over 900 NHL games for non playoff teams before playing his 1st playoff game. We're talking about a player that has average 4 goals and 15 points (over past 4 seasons) playing 20 minutes a night on a non-playoff team. The playoffs for him are an anomaly in his career overall and keep in mind playoff games can go into double OT at times so its not 20 minutes TOI/g over 60-65 min regular season but could be 80+ minutes for double OT.

He is no longer a spring chicken here going on 37, and perhaps fans are not factoring that in here. Decline sets in with all players over time and Hainsey's play in the last few years of his NHL career now likely to follow a similar path. I'd imagine Hainsey will be among the oldest Dmen on the majority of the NHLs teams today and 38 before this contract expires. Only a dozen or so players remaining & hanging around from the 2000 entry draft in the NHL today.

Its a young man's league nowadays and lets hope Hainsey can buy Leafs future a little more development time, as teams are always trying to replace these older more expensive vets with cheaper younger players in today's NHL.

 

[Nithoniniel]

The last two pages are just full of some of the worst logic I've seen since Interactif frequented these parts.

Somehow the only reason a career top 4 D-man will play top 4 minutes for us is because how sad our defense is. If only our defensive depth was better, which every one of his previous teams have been, he would certainly not play top 4, like he's always done before.

Thankfully Zeke can provide a bit of sanity and logic.