Post-Game Talk: Leafs Lose 9-3 to a Team That Lost 9-4

[Squiffy]

We had a good shift or two prior, but really weren't very good overall. Deserved to lose, but felt more like a 4-2 game than a 9-3 game

Holy crap.... we were watching a different game.

Thought we were mostly killing them for the 1st 25 minutes or so, just some goals that can't go in going in. Then the wheels fell off after that. They were going to win that game but couldn't get a stop and it snowballed... imo.

 

[ToneDog]

It doesn't work that way. Points are points. The league doesn't take them away at the end of the season because fans don't like how they were obtained.

I get that and good for them for getting every point possible. What I see is a team taking advantage of regular season OT because it is comprised of 5 minutes of shinny and a skills competition. Not the case in the playoffs.

 

[Big Shot]

Wouldn't work, he holds players accountable. Too many Leaf players can't handle that.

I agree, team needs a big shake up. For whatever reasons, coaching system, incompatibility on the blue line, lack of respect for the coaches or other players, they just are not on the same page or the same level.
Big problems Leafland

 

[JKG33]

Thought we were mostly killing them for the 1st 25 minutes or so, just some goals that can't go in going in. Then the wheels fell off after that. They were going to win that game but couldn't get a stop and it snowballed... imo.

The thing is though, this team is insanely offensively gifted. They should outscore their own problems in net, offense is literally all they have going for them. They have the talent to easily hang 9 on a weak team like Buffalo. The problem is they quit before the game even got outta hand.

 

[Sypher04]

The thing is though, this team is insanely offensively gifted. They should outscore their own problems in net, offense is literally all they have going for them. They have the talent to easily hang 9 on a weak team like Buffalo. The problem is they quit before the game even got outta hand.

I really think acquiring a #2/3 RHD would make a world of difference for this team. That and another quality defensive forward who can help the PK and 5v5 minutes in the Reaves/McMann spot

 

[Squiffy]

The thing is though, this team is insanely offensively gifted. They should outscore their own problems in net, offense is literally all they have going for them. They have the talent to easily hang 9 on a weak team like Buffalo. The problem is they quit before the game even got outta hand.

Ya, they were cooked at 5-3, just the reaction after that went in was surrender. Everything after that was a well-earned ass kicking that shouldn't happen.

At least Florida lost too.

 

[JKG33]

I really think acquiring a #2/3 RHD would make a world of difference for this team. That and another quality defensive forward who can help the PK and 5v5 minutes in the Reaves/McMann spot

We've been saying that for how long though? Muzzin, Brodie, McCabe... none of those guys moved the needle that much.

Schenn-Rielly was a great pairing if you had a great 2nd pair behind them. But now Schenn is gone and the depth behind Rielly is worse than ever.

What they really needed was Pietrangelo, a true #1 to bump Rielly down to a more appropriate #2.

 

[ACC1224]

Perhaps Tre wasn’t a Shanahan hire? Apparently his dad is friends with more than one MLSE Board member……..

Guys with his experience don’t need daddy to get them a job. He quit Calgary because of autonomy, doubt very much he’d have daddy set him up in the same situation

 

[Sypher04]

We've been saying that for how long though? Muzzin, Brodie, McCabe... none of those guys moved the needle that much.

Schenn-Rielly was a great pairing if you had a great 2nd pair behind them. But now Schenn is gone and the depth behind Rielly is worse than ever.

What they really needed was Pietrangelo, a true #1 to bump Rielly down to a more appropriate #2.

Disagree. We don’t need someone to bump Rielly down. That would be nice to have, but it’s not really a need. I don’t think any of those acquisitions you cited are really the same as what I’m suggesting for various reasons. McCabe I don’t know people saw as a top 4 add. Brodie was a good FA add but one dimensional. Muzzin was the guy and a healthy Muzzin right now would basically be perfect for our needs (although a little quicker would be ideal). The biggest issue with Muzzin years was he got hurt and during each playoff and our D suffered without him because the guys behind him were inexperienced and risky. We had no one that could replace even in style. We also kept acquiring LHD and ignoring the right which constantly left us weak on one side of the ice.

A #2 would be ample.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Perhaps Tre wasn’t a Shanahan hire? Apparently his dad is friends with more than one MLSE Board member……..

This is not even a hockey conversation anymore.

This is pure cynicism, or possibly a reflection of dividing the world into haves and have nots.

Let's not just judge everyone based on 30 games, and the fact that some people have more money than others.

 

[JKG33]

Disagree. We don’t need someone to bump Rielly down. That would be nice to have, but it’s not really a need. I don’t think any of those acquisitions you cited are really the same as what I’m suggesting for various reasons. McCabe I don’t know people saw as a top 4 add. Brodie was a good FA add but one dimensional. Muzzin was the guy and a healthy Muzzin right now would basically be perfect for our needs (although a little quicker would be ideal). The biggest issue with Muzzin years was he got hurt and during each playoff and our D suffered without him because the guys behind him were inexperienced and risky. We had no one that could replace even in style. We also kept acquiring LHD and ignoring the right which constantly left us weak on one side of the ice.

A #2 would be ample.

Rielly can be a #1 if you have say Hague-Whitecloud and Martinez-McNabb behind him, and his partner is Schenn. Or you have a Rielly and a very comparable player as co-#1's, each on their own pairing. Anything less than that and you're likely not gunna be winning a cup. No Muzzin equivalent will change that, unless you're solid in net and have buy in from the forwards (which obviously the Leafs have neither).

Let's say the D magically becomes Rielly, prime Muzzin equivalent, Brodie, McCabe, Liljegren, and whoever you wanna call the #6. That's a low end #1, a mid range #2-4, a great #5, a below average #6, all totaling a painfully average defence group.

 

[Niagara Bill]

Not a whimper, not a push back at laughing players like Skinner.
If these teams had equal points from o t, the Sabres would be right there.

 

[rumman]

Guys with his experience don’t need daddy to get them a job. He quit Calgary because of autonomy, doubt very much he’d have daddy set him up in the same situation

I NEVER said "Daddy"got him the job, I said his father has connections with the Leafs board, must be a slow day at work...........

 

[rumman]

This is not even a hockey conversation anymore.

This is pure cynicism, or possibly a reflection of dividing the world into haves and have nots.

Let's not just judge everyone based on 30 games, and the fact that some people have more money than others.

??????????????

 

[Suntouchable13]

Fact is, you can't win the Stanley Cup with 40mil forwards and dollar store goaltending. The goaltending has been truly bungled by Dubas. Tre has to fix it.

 

[ULF_55]

Fact is, you can't win the Stanley Cup with 40mil forwards and dollar store goaltending. The goaltending has been truly bungled by Dubas. Tre has to fix it.

Well, maybe not always but

Just have to be creative and don't evaluate based on contract.

 

[ACC1224]

I NEVER said "Daddy"got him the job, I said his father has connections with the Leafs board, must be a slow day at work...........

What's the implication then?

 

[darrylsittler27]

We've been saying that for how long though? Muzzin, Brodie, McCabe... none of those guys moved the needle that much.

Schenn-Rielly was a great pairing if you had a great 2nd pair behind them. But now Schenn is gone and the depth behind Rielly is worse than ever.

What they really needed was Pietrangelo, a true #1 to bump Rielly down to a more appropriate #2.

Dubas saw more glory in a star C. The Leafs still don't want to admit but defense was given up for offense, it won't work.

 

[notbias]

We've been saying that for how long though? Muzzin, Brodie, McCabe... none of those guys moved the needle that much.

Schenn-Rielly was a great pairing if you had a great 2nd pair behind them. But now Schenn is gone and the depth behind Rielly is worse than ever.

What they really needed was Pietrangelo, a true #1 to bump Rielly down to a more appropriate #2.

The depth behind Rielly is literally the same as last year minus Holl... "worse than ever"

 

[notbias]

What's the implication then?

Likely that his connections help get the job... don't think he got it on merit... but the NHL sucks and recycles all failed GMs, so maybe Shanny thought he was the best option.

 

[stickty111]

Jonas was right

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Important to keep this in the context of being just one game and not overreacting but really hard not to be disgusted by that game. We’ve had some clunkers this year, but this one takes the cake.

I’ve generally been on the fence this year re Keefe. Whether people care to admit it or not he definitely has strengths and the guys like him which is worth something. And not to lay last night at the feet of any one person because that was one of the most complete team effort losses I’ve ever witnessed, but last night pushed me more in favour of firing Keefe. IF there is a quality, experienced coach available.

There are things out of his control like personnel but in terms of things last night I disliked:

1) stop coddling samsonov. He should face been pulled after allowing the first goal, that stinker deflated the whole team and set the tone for the rest of the night. How he remained in for 5 goals is beyond me. By the time Jones came in the team had already quit.

2) maybe try something? Anything at all? I was floored that at no point did the lines get mixed up. Maybe put marner, Domi and Knies back together? Still winnable, down 6-3 to open the third and the 4th line is playing waaaay too much. Shorten the bench, we needed offense.

Our PK stinks, we don’t manage the puck well in neutral ice, you opted to change the defensive system from one that worked to what we have now which is a mess of missed assignments. There are personnel factors contributing, but overall that’s on coaching.

I agree with everything you’ve said here. I’d like to add that the defencemen we have make too many pinches and forays into the offensive zone. I get that we lack offence from our defence, but we don’t have the kind of defencemen who can pull that off. That’s a coaching systemic thing as I’m sure they’ve been given the go ahead by Keefe.

 

[TGB]

So, were any of the goals last night softies? I lost interest after the sixth. It was pretty obvious by that one they weren't going to have another 5 goal comeback.

If anyone still thought the Leafs D is okay by last night, I'm sure they've changed their mind by now. That was dreadful. I was giving it to Sammy at first, but then Jones started getting shelled just as bad.

 

[JKG33]

The depth behind Rielly is literally the same as last year minus Holl... "worse than ever"

And Schenn (rental). And they look much worse than last year

 

[notbias]

And Schenn (rental). And they look much worse than last year

Well, we removed a few defensive forwards and replaced them with bad defensive players, so that doesn't help.

I didn't include Schenn since the TDL hasn't happened yet and he was a rental.