Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose 4-3 in OT .. Marner sets the franchise record with 19 games recording a point

[Torontonian]

Get a grip. Tampa is good. Quit blaming the refs

Very good team, just disappointing the refs didn't let BOTH teams play the game. Would have been a good game without all these soft and bad calls for both teams.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Plus they allowed a Tampa goal that was clearly offside and Leafs had to risk a coaches challenge to get it called back.

You can't blame the refs for that. The linesman on the far side called the potential first one but missed the second.

The ref's call is just that the puck entered the net legally.

I think the linesmen are more reluctant to blow the play dead if they aren't absolutely sure, because the videos are now available so quickly, and are so good at letting the coaches know whether to challenge.

Goalie interference and kicking the puck are very much subjective, but offsides, especially with the modified rule, are really cut-and-dried. There wasn't much risk to the challenge, as it was pretty clear on the video.

 

[Stephen]

There was no reason for that to happen?

Matthews should watch Draisaitl and McDavid in OT and learn what patience is.

Keep the puck and retreat if there's nothing there.

Don't skate into coverage and don't give the puck away.

Leafs might be the only team I watch who want to immediately force something without regard to consequence in OT.

Or make something happen out there. Early on they were sloppily throwing the puck around ad now they are over correcting lately by trying to hold the puck and default to doing nothing, but still manage to get burned when they try.

 

[Zybalto]

Not sure why people get so worked up about the 3v3 OT thing other than the fact that, much like the shootout, its a stupid coin flip gimmick that hurts the sport IMO. Fun to watch but not really hockey and a crappy way for some teams to miss out on the playoffs where the gimmicks arnt even used.

The Leafs were 9-7 last season with the same team and worse goalkeeping. Florida was the best team in OT/SO last season (16-6) and are 1-4 this season. The second best team last season and another team struggling this season are the Stars (0-4 this season, 15-6 last year). Everyone agrees they are a much better team this season and they are. Why the insane regression? They just havnt hit "tails" this season. Don't look much more into it.



Gimmie a 10 minute 5v5 sudden death OT instead of the gimmicks everyday.

 

[Stephen]

Yup and that's what they used to do (the patience part). What happened? This is new this season. Something's up and/or they're being coached to do this. It makes no sense otherwise. Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Rielly all equally guilty of inexplicable careless turnovers by forcing something that they don't need to force. Maybe they're desperately afraid of the shootout, who knows.

Looks like a lot of problems compounded into one.

-They don't seem to have confidence so they're always looking to retreat deeper and deeper to safety, which kills their own momentum and opens them up to a counter.

-When it comes to moving north they seem disjointed like they don't know if they should be hunting for a breakaway, or moving as a unit up the ice. Spread too thin on formation.

-And when they move as a unit, they like having the last man back do the puck carrying, which creates a lot of drop pass plays, which opens up the counter.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Not sure why people get so worked up about the 3v3 OT thing other than the fact that, much like the shootout, its a stupid coin flip gimmick that hurts the sport IMO. Fun to watch but not really hockey and a crappy way for some teams to miss out on the playoffs where the gimmicks arnt even used.

The Leafs were 9-7 last season with the same team and worse goalkeeping. Florida was the best team in OT/SO last season (16-6) and are 1-4 this season. The second best team last season and another team struggling this season are the Stars (0-4 this season, 15-6 last year). Everyone agrees they are a much better team this season and they are. Why the insane regression? They just havnt hit "tails" this season. Don't look much more into it.



Gimmie a 10 minute 5v5 sudden death OT instead of the gimmicks everyday.

Yup, good examples. Reminds me of years ago when people were whining endlessly about how we almost always lost in shootouts, then next season we almost always won in shootouts. It's a gimmick that doesn't exist in the playoffs so why worry about it? It's nothing more than variance, deal with it. And I agree that it's not good for the game.

 

[Cournoyer12]

Oh the good old days, when you got a tie in the other teams barn it was considered a success! Longing for days of yore I guess.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

I didn't think the Leafs would take that seriously

That was literally last night mate , be more specific.

Oh the good old days, when you got a tie in the other teams barn it was considered a success! Longing for days of yore I guess.

Aren't you a Blues' fan?

 

[Cournoyer12]

4th highest point total in the league right now, even with all the so called warts. I wouldn’t be that disheartening if that were my club… just saying, think the best is still coming lads!

 

[IPS]

Not sure why people get so worked up about the 3v3 OT thing other than the fact that, much like the shootout, its a stupid coin flip gimmick that hurts the sport IMO. Fun to watch but not really hockey and a crappy way for some teams to miss out on the playoffs where the gimmicks arnt even used.

The Leafs were 9-7 last season with the same team and worse goalkeeping. Florida was the best team in OT/SO last season (16-6) and are 1-4 this season. The second best team last season and another team struggling this season are the Stars (0-4 this season, 15-6 last year). Everyone agrees they are a much better team this season and they are. Why the insane regression? They just havnt hit "tails" this season. Don't look much more into it.



Gimmie a 10 minute 5v5 sudden death OT instead of the gimmicks everyday.

Agreed. I'm not really phased at all about a 3v3 gimmick loss. It's frustrating to see the coach not having a good plan for these and throwing points away, but it doesn't say anything about how the playoffs would go.

Trying to say it has anything to do with how a rematch in the playoffs would go is just hilarious stupidity.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I hate these loser points. We lost. We don't deserve shit. If the goal is to make me feel better, it's not working.

I hate the fact that more points are awarded in one game than in another.

Make every game worth two points, or make every game worth three points.

I did an analysis a couple of years ago by taking the final standings and reworking them based on:

1 - old system - game over after 60 minutes, every game worth 2 points (2-1-0)

2 - include OT, but a tie still a tie, every game worth 2 points (2-1-0).

3 - include OT and SO, but every game worth 2 points (2-0).

4 - game over after 60, 3 points for a win, 0 for a loss 1 each for a tie (3-1-0 - soccer style).

5 - include OT and SO, every game worth 3 points (3-2-1-0).

Obviously the point totals changed, depending on whether a game was worth 2 points, 2 or 3 points, or 3 points. But I found there was minimal change in the standings, and even less in who reached the playoffs. I think the highest was three changes in standings, with most of them "team A is ahead of team B by a point, instead of behind by a point", and no more than one change in who made the playoffs, and often none.

 

[Gallagbi]

4th highest point total in the league right now, even with all the so called warts. I wouldn’t be that disheartening if that were my club… just saying, think the best is still coming lads!

Its funny, we have a brutal OT record which drags down our pts%. Matthews hasnt been sharp overall, weve used an AHL goalie (and a mediocre one at that) for 30% of the season and are missing our top 3 D, but we still find ways to win. Feels like theres another gear or two for this team.

Agreed. I'm not really phased at all about a 3v3 gimmick loss. It's frustrating to see the coach not having a good plan for these and throwing points away, but it doesn't say anything about how the playoffs would go.

Trying to say it has anything to do with how a rematch in the playoffs would go is just hilarious stupidity.

The mental aspect scares me more than any result. Thats the only transferring fear IMO

 

[Gary Nylund]

Finally has his day!

Mess's last post in a PGT: November 22, Leafs lose 3-2 in OT to the Islanders.

It's beyond transparent at this point.

That's hilarious. So strange that a mod would have this sort of agenda.

 

[Judas Tavares]

Just remember. If teams didn't let in goals, they would shut out the other team every game.

If teams didn't lose, they'd go 82-0.

Hard to freak out after the run the team was on. Guess what, they will lose again. Hope you're ready.

When I was a teenager I fixated on every game and its result like it was Game 7 each night and it affected my mood. Wasn't fun. Grew out of it. I'll let the sadness of Game 7 get to me when it's Game 7. And it will get to me good. Until then, enjoy the rollercoaster.

 

[ACC1224]

Only thing better would be if the shot was never gifted to them.

At the time I was glad he shot, thought they were handing possession back.

 

[TMLeafer]

One forward, two dmen please, next time in OT.

 

[Zybalto]

Yup, good examples. Reminds me of years ago when people were whining endlessly about how we almost always lost in shootouts, then next season we almost always won in shootouts. It's a gimmick that doesn't exist in the playoffs so why worry about it? It's nothing more than variance, deal with it. And I agree that it's not good for the game.

The Stars are actually kind of hilarious.

2019-2020: 11-8
2020-2021: 6-14
2021-2022: 15-6
So far this season: 0-4

So are they elite or the worst?

....and why the hell should this matter so much to the standings?

I'd hate to screw with the game any more but if they won't scrub these systems, a 3 point reg win system is probably the better option for the integrity of the game. At least it would mean real hockey matters more than appealing to the glowing puck crowd.

 

[Nineteen67]

Some 'penalties' that weren't called that could have been and some that were called that could have been let go. About the same number of each for each team.

Refs 'put the whistle away' for the last 8 minutes after we tied it, which I don't like, but penalties 'let go' both ways.

Overall, a fairly called game. Just a few people who would rather blame someone not on their favourite team.

That’s what I saw, too

 

[ULF_55]

At the time I was glad he shot, thought they were handing possession back.

I thought it was a good shot, and then saw the replay from a different angle.

Brutal in all 3 zones on that one play.

Couldn't have asked for a worse 10 seconds.

Giveaway - unforced error - Matthews
No intelligent backcheck - lack of comprehension - Matthews
Lack of preparation - very catchable unscreened shot - Murray

Inexcusable

 

[IPS]

Some 'penalties' that weren't called that could have been and some that were called that could have been let go. About the same number of each for each team.

Refs 'put the whistle away' for the last 8 minutes after we tied it, which I don't like, but penalties 'let go' both ways.

Overall, a fairly called game. Just a few people who would rather blame someone not on their favourite team.

Yeah Kuch leveling Holl from behind and not getting a 5 minute major (when in reality it should be getting reviewed for suspension)

It's just people upset that it's against their favorite team!

 

[Gallagbi]

Yeah Kuch leveling Holl from behind and not getting a 5 minute major (when in reality it should be getting reviewed for suspension)

It's just people upset that it's against their favorite team!

Its interesting there wasnt a whisper about a suspension on that play. Its a needless play on a vulnerable player.

 

[IPS]

Its interesting there wasnt a whisper about a suspension on that play. Its a needless play on a vulnerable player.

Leaf player does it and the twitter world wouldn't stfu about it. A leaf superstar does it and you'd literally have the color commentary crew calling for suspension.

But no you're just upset that it's a player on your favorite team getting charged from behind.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Yup and that's what they used to do (the patience part). What happened? This is new this season. Something's up and/or they're being coached to do this. It makes no sense otherwise. Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Rielly all equally guilty of inexplicable careless turnovers by forcing something that they don't need to force. Maybe they're desperately afraid of the shootout, who knows.

2022-2023: 1-6
2021-2022: 6-6
2020-2021: 5-7
2019-2020: 7-4
2018-2019: 6-6
2017-2018: 5-5
2016-2017: 6-7

We have mostly hovered around .500 at OT, which is not good for a team like ours. It hasn't just been a problem this year. Our SO record is typically pretty bad too, which is also not good for a team like ours.

Thing to keep in mind too though is that 4 of our OT losses came with Kallgren in net and he was beat clean on the high glove every time. He didn't look competitive on any of the goals against. Then you also add in Murray's goal against today, which wasn't even a good opportunity against. At some point, it can't be an automatic goal against either... And that is what it effectively is right now.

The problem with the skaters is Marner more than anyone else. Sure, Matthews/Rielly/Nylander/Tavares make mistakes too, but the numbers are pretty damning for Marner.

Last 3 years:
Matthews with Marner vs. without: 25 GF% vs. 66.67 GF%
Nylander with Marner vs. without: 28.57 GF% vs. 50 GF%
Rielly with Marner vs. without: 18.18 GF% vs. 66.67 GF%
Tavares with Marner vs. without: 50 GF% vs. 30 GF%. (Tavares didn't do well with Nylander, but did well with Matthews and Rielly)

Unfortunately, I doubt we take Marner out of 3-on-3 altogether, even though he has a 33% GF% in his career right now. Matthews and Nylander, by comparison, are around 50% and are only that low because of their time with Marner. Rielly is a little bit lower than Matthews/Nylander, but spent more time with Marner too and is still by far our best defensive option for 3-on-3.

We probably need to start treating it like we would a shootout or PK. Your best guys are maybe not the ones who should be used, because some lesser guys are just specialists at it. Marner is already used more than any other forward more or less in the NHL. We are already looking at ways to cut down his ice time, and OT is a much better place to do that than cutting him at times when he is far more effective (like 5-on-5, PP, or PK). We can afford to use Jarnkrok (6-3 OT record in the last 6 years), Holmberg (reminds me a lot of a LH version of Jarnkrok stylistically, but with a slightly worse shot at this point), Malgin (one of the best European players in recent history; he is used to open ice), or Robertson (excellent shot and strong enough skater who has our only OT goal so far this year) instead, and get them more ice time.

All things said, I think the strategy should be Matthews-Nylander-Rielly to start. If they are tired (either at the beginning of OT or you need to take a draw after they have taken a shift), then you can use Tavares for the draw and get him off ASAP similar to Spezza on the PK. Then have 2 of Holmberg/Jarnkrok/Malgin/Robertson. I would consider Liljegren as the next guy behind Rielly, but Gio/Sandin should also receive consideration and they mostly just need to figure out who works best.

 

[GoonieFace]

I wouldn't pay attention to users who cheer against the team. It's been obvious for a long time now

Dude, no one flip flops more than you

 

[Gabriel426]

They lost in OT with the 3 on 3 thing. There will be no 3 Vs 3 in the playoffs.
This game got nothing to do with killer instinct. The Leafs fought back, took the lead, got behind and tied the game. Beside the beginning of the 3rd, they were dominating plays.
If anything, Kerfoot needs to go, like seriously need to be off the team.