Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose 4-2

[sparxx87]

Easily.

Holl is exactly the kind of player that Leafs fans are clamouring to overpay for year after year and then they are left disappointed when they make mistakes. If you hate Holl, then you are going to be disappointed with Connor Murphy, Matt Roy, Scott Mayfield, and various others... because you would be getting the same out of them in this system. And that is before entering into a pressure cooker where every mistake they make is analyzed under a microscope. And you will notice that a lot of these guys either do, or soon will, make double what Holl is making right now. Unless Holl completely falls off of a cliff this year, then he will likely be no different himself.

McCann is a mediocre middle-6 forward getting paid a lot more money than we, or any good team, can afford to pay him. His ES production rate was on par with Mikheyev and Engvall last year, and Mikheyev/Engvall were in shutdown roles for most of the year. He is not physical. He is not good defensively. He has been non-existent in his brief playoff appearances. Really, other than having a hot start not too dissimilar to the one he is currently having, he was underwhelming for much of last year and exactly the kind of guy that should not be getting 5 mill unless you have nothing else (therefore, Seattle is one of the few teams where it is at least somewhat justifiable).

Really, we are fortunate that they didn't take Kerfoot over him too. Kerfoot outperformed him at ES, had more points despite receiving no PP time, and was the much better defensive player.

No, they don't. And no, Holl isn't. He has a minor league processor and always has.

This is a 7-8 defenseman who fortunately employs one of the many player agents to bend Kyle Dubas over in negotiation. Holl had been in the minors for a reason, but Kyle Dubas, trying to outsmart everyone, signed him to a multi year extension at 2M with less than 40 games of NHL experience!!!! Now, he's more wasted money if they bury him so he needs to be on the roster...

It's almost hard to believe the level of incompetence.

And honestly, its going to be tough to find common ground with anyone who knows what they're watching if you can't spot the difference between Justin Holl and Scott Mayfield. They may look the same on your charts and graphs but they're very different players with very different skill sets. One of them has proven to be valuable to a winning team deep into the playoffs while the other can't stay off the blooper reel. I'm not a Murphy fan but he's head and shoulders better, won't speak on Roy because I'm not as familar with his game, but I'd bet you're probably wrong about him, too, given the other 2 you mentioned are demonstrably better than Holl.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

If we lose again and Dubas survives a sweep to the Pacific I am officially done watching until he's gone.

My love for the team with Dubas attached has died. Not even having the best player in the league can get me to watch. That's severe. I hope the majority of Toronto feels the same because they would have no choice but to remove him now. They will be able to tell because of the social media presence today even though revenue is not affected.

Samsonov being good is a good reflection of Dubas. He tried to big brain with Murray and that failed. Ends up relying on his contingency plan. The contingency plan being the better option all along is in line with Dubas' actual main chess playing plans being total flops. Now we're stuck with murrays cap hit when all we needed was Ilya and a backup for Ilya.

Same with all the trades. His vision for the teams direction were all worse than the players he lets go (in this example they fall into contingency plans since they are not part of the big brain plan)

 

[theTTC]

It’s too late for that. Keefe lost the respect of the players long ago.

This entitled group of frat boys hold themselves accountable to no one. Babcock, Keefe, Trotz(?), it doesn't matter. And this is on Dubas. He rewarded the barely-out-of-teenage-years players before they accomplished anything, thus creating a squad of rich trust fund brats. Ah well, that's the way of the woke world these days - zero substance to the hype.

 

[Trapper]

We've heard in past seasons, certain someones had some words for the group to get them settled and focused.

Who would be speaking this season? Who has earned the right to? Do they send Spezza down to the room (of course not); and would anyone be willing to even listen?

They (generally) seem so directionless, listless and disinterested from the puck drop. They are clearly not listening to the coach at this point...

Good chance for our captain to get in some of his teammates ears perhaps. Rielly had something to say to the media, maybe he had some stronger words in the room.

Oh, but I forgot, it's only game 9, so no need to worry or be concerned.

For a team only 9 games in (and even before that) Dubas is sure swearing a lot this early and Keefe has looked like a guy with a briefcase full of explosives handcuffed to his wrist. Good times.

 

[justashadowof]

I believe this was the 4th backup the Leafs have faced already this season. That seems high to me.

 

[Legion34]

I am not an over reactor. Plenty of top teams struggle out of the gate and the teams that lost the year before go off for 2 months and flop.

On the plus side

Tampa. Colorado. Have struggled early for years. We are 2 pts out of 3rd in the conference. After tonight Got the big western trip out of the way and 2 back to backs.

The problem isn’t bounces. It’s lack of details and compete. Losing in the last 2 minutes of 2 games in a season is unacceptable. They did it in the first week.

They have lost to SJ. Montreal. Arizona. In the first 2 weeks. Something is wrong here.


The good thing is the core is good. Whether people want to believe it or not. If Samsonov is a 1. We have 28 abs under

Knies Matthews. Marner
Robby. Nylander
Roni. Minten. amirov
Steeves. Etc


Rielly. Lilly
Sandin. Topi
Kral. Villenueve

Sammy/petruzelli/McKay.

After the hunter debacle we have had good drafts and a lot of good role players coming up.

If Matthews extends we have a good chance at a long second window.

If he wants out this summer. It all changes. Have to get stuff for him.

This year is literally about whatever Matty wants to get him to sign. If he likes keefe abs dubas. You keep them. If he wants Kane you get him.

This years effort is concerning

 

[Anthrax442]

I believe this was the 4th backup the Leafs have faced already this season. That seems high to me.

They made them all look like Vezina winners

 

[Gallagbi]

If we lose again and Dubas survives a sweep to the Pacific I am officially done watching until he's gone.

Feels like a really odd time to fire the GM. Its usually the coach at this point

 

[DarkKnight]

We come out every game like we’ve clinched a spot and just want to avoid injuries before the real season starts.

 

[Racer88]

Feels like a really odd time to fire the GM. Its usually the coach at this point

Usually, but how many coach’s can this poor mix of players kill before it’s becomes evident that it’s GM’s responsibility?

 

[Gallagbi]

Usually, but how many coach’s can this poor mix of players kill before it’s becomes evident that it’s GM’s responsibility?

If youre firing the GM, its because a personnel and roster overhaul is coming. Its very rare for a team to do that 10 games into the year. If thats the writing on the wall an interim coach with the GM fired around xmas/new year seems like the normal course of action and even thats quick

 

[Racer88]

If youre firing the GM, its because a personnel and roster overhaul is coming. Its very rare for a team to do that 10 games into the year. If thats the writing on the wall an interim coach with the GM fired around xmas/new year seems like the normal course of action and even thats quick

I agree but my frustration level is off the scale. Lol. As a good Leafs fan I was sure this year would be different and the team would have learned to be ready to start the season/games. How wrong I was. Look at Boston, just when people thought they were on the down side they are once again back on top………if they can do it why can’t we?
There can be no more excuses

 

[Gallagbi]

I agree but my frustration level is off the scale. Lol. As a good Leafs fan I was sure this year would be different and the team would have learned to be ready to start the season/games. How wrong I was. Look at Boston, just when people thought they were on the down side they are once again back on top………if they can do it why can’t we?
There can be no more excuses

I dont think there are excuses and theres lots of blame to go around. Its a good collection of assets from coach to GM to players. We'll move on from many of them if this continues and i expect many to be successful. For now though, its not working here and there needs to be change. Its just unlikely and honestly illogical to start with the GM at this point

 

[DarkKnight]

Aube-Kubel is useless too btw. Losing pucks is the clincher for me.

 

[egd27]

Winnipeg was the Leafs Stanley Cup….

Well played.

 

[killer1980]

Again, it is the job of a GM to find players that thrive under pressure not wilt under it. Love how so many people want to blame the the fans and the media. If $11 million doesn't lighten the load it's time to move on. We should not forget that both Matthews and Marner have made over $1 million each for tip toeing through those first 9 games. If that isn't inspiration enough then f'em.

 

[Brown Dog]

This team has earned zero benefit of the doubt. With all they have to prove, they should have come out of the gates like a house on fire. For them to start this season looking so complacent is beyond discouraging.

 

[ToneDog]

Again, it is the job of a GM to find players that thrive under pressure not wilt under it. Love how so many people want to blame the the fans and the media. If $11 million doesn't lighten the load it's time to move on. We should not forget that both Matthews and Marner have made over $1 million each for tip toeing through those first 9 games. If that isn't inspiration enough then f'em.

Marner and Matty are making 750K in base salary. They have been paid the rest in bonuses.

 

[Nineteen67]

Hey Leafs, It’s the fans who are not supposed to care about the regular season.

 

[Andrewcoursol]

I am not an over reactor. Plenty of top teams struggle out of the gate and the teams that lost the year before go off for 2 months and flop.

On the plus side

Tampa. Colorado. Have struggled early for years. We are 2 pts out of 3rd in the conference. After tonight Got the big western trip out of the way and 2 back to backs.

The problem isn’t bounces. It’s lack of details and compete. Losing in the last 2 minutes of 2 games in a season is unacceptable. They did it in the first week.

They have lost to SJ. Montreal. Arizona. In the first 2 weeks. Something is wrong here.


The good thing is the core is good. Whether people want to believe it or not. If Samsonov is a 1. We have 28 abs under

Knies Matthews. Marner
Robby. Nylander
Roni. Minten. amirov
Steeves. Etc


Rielly. Lilly
Sandin. Topi
Kral. Villenueve

Sammy/petruzelli/McKay.

After the hunter debacle we have had good drafts and a lot of good role players coming up.

If Matthews extends we have a good chance at a long second window.

If he wants out this summer. It all changes. Have to get stuff for him.

This year is literally about whatever Matty wants to get him to sign. If he likes keefe abs dubas. You keep them. If he wants Kane you get him.

This years effort is concerning

Holl is on your blue line, if there was another option it should be made waive Holl, allow someone from the good drafts/good role players you mention play, because it can not get any worse, Things are bad when Marner and Matthews are playing the point/blue line, this team as constructed will be lucky to be battling for a wild card spot in the next few years, many teams in the division/conference, are showing signs of improvement, that is the truth.

 

[Nineteen67]

This pathetic group has made me stop watching hockey. I simply don't care. The NHL isn't helping the situation.

Most games I watch are somewhat entertaining. The Leafs haven’t been entertaining in years.

 

[egd27]

This team has earned zero benefit of the doubt. With all they have to prove, they should have come out of the gates like a house on fire. For them to start this season looking so complacent is beyond discouraging.

It's beyond that.

They can't seem to even come out of the gates like a house on fire for a single game. I think it was about 7 mins in before they had their first shot on goal last night, and that's after giving up a goal 34 seconds into the previous game.

How is it possible that they can't come up with either the intensity or a couple of set plays to start off on a positive note?

 

[Nineteen67]

How much do you wanna bet that both Matthews and Marner recover and AM scores 45-50, and Marner gets 90 points again, and "Leaf Nation" flips it's pancakes again and says they're perfect and nothing is wrong? Even tho we lose out in the 1st round AGAIN? It's really all about regular season performance around here. And it's always the same with us Dummies, who buy into it, every season.

Shinny seasons will be here in a week or two, and they’ll be incredible.

 

[killer1980]

Marner and Matty are making 750K in base salary. They have been paid the rest in bonuses.

I really don't care how the accounting goes. If you divide the $11 million by 82 games that's what you get. Now the per game price would have gone down if they would have made the playoffs which at this point is questionable at best..

 

[ACC1224]

It's beyond that.

They can't seem to even come out of the gates like a house on fire for a single game. I think it was about 7 mins in before they had their first shot on goal last night, and that's after giving up a goal 34 seconds into the previous game.

How is it possible that they can't come up with either the intensity or a couple of set plays to start off on a positive note?

Opposing coaches are able to stress the importance of coming out ready against them and if they do are most likely in for an easy night.