Post-Game Talk: Leafs Blank Stars 4-0

[Clark4Ever]

I am confused. We have 4 injuries and when they come back the depth is amazing.

A top 6 forward is the need.

That, and maybe some more sandpaper in the bottom six.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Just realized Timmins was in the same draft as Lily .. he’s that young

 

[Jojalu]

Here is an interesting stat that won't last long.

Matthews has more primary assists than Marner this year.

12-11

 

[stuart5035]

There is a journey of maturity that all teams go through on the path of winning

Not so long ago Tampa needed to learn this too. They had 62 wins and 128 points all to get swept in the first round by CBJ. Cooper was famously quoted as saying "We wanted to win 6-1, not 3-1" after the series. It taught them the need to play the defensive side and focus on that more. It requires a full-team buy in, from the superstars to the 4th liners, and they got that after 2019.

It can take time to build this, I hope we finally are there

You make some astute points, especially the “full team buy in” point; and I believe this is most evident in the players post goal celebrations (especially impressive is their genuine joy for each others accomplishments, even more so when you see the expression on Matthew’s face, the leader, I believe he is truly humble, as many cast him).

However, not to be negative, but to be real I think-one thing that stood out to me was how Marchment drove Matthew’s into Murray-it was deliberate, you could see it on Marchment’s face. This is a double affront (not only our leader but our goalie). Where was the payback?

Could this be a microcosm of the playoffs to come? How could our smallish fragile ‘nice’ team (the Dubas blueprint) handle a team like this in a gruelling best of seven? They might run us out of the rink, no matter how much everyone “bought in”.

Physicality, size, meanness matters
I hope we add some of it?

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

That, and maybe some more sandpaper in the bottom six.

We need more scoring in the bottom 6. They've been horrendous.

 

[Fonzieleaf]

I'm amazed with how well the team defence has been with all of the injuries on the backend. It's nothing short of amazing and the PK was busy as hell but stellar.

Another great performance from Murray. If he can stay healthy, this could be a huge steal for the leafs.

They will have some decisions to make on D once those guys are back.

 

[willmma]

Here's a thought. A trip down memory lane.

Remember when Jake Gardiner got injured towards the end if a season and the leafs went on a tail spin. Almost missed the playoffs. That team couldn't handle the loss of a top defenseman.


I get the feeling this team is better.

 

[Zacman]

This is basically it.

Murr succeeding in Toronto was just as likely as Soup or Keumper. But Murr's AAV allowed us to insulate him with a more than capable 1B in Sammy.

I never understood the narrative that we were in worse shape from a goaltending perspective from last season. We had horrendous goaltending for 70% of the year, by all of our tendy's, and somehow the narrative was that it was going to get worse. I am sorry, .890ish is about as bad of goaltending as you will ever see in the NHL over the course of season. Which is essentially what we got from Campbell, Mrazek, and Kallgren aside from the month of November 2021.

Kyle tried this same philosophy in the 2021-22 season by insulating Jack with what he felt was a capable 1B in Mrazek. Petr just couldn't stay healthy, and when he was, he was largely unimpressive. Overall we had 2 goalies fail. Unfortunately they were really the only options that were available to us at the time given our cap dynamic, but I think we could all agree we expected more from both of them. They were both given the opportunity to take the net, and neither one of them showed that they could do that over a sustained period of time. It was really not that big of a risk to replace what they gave us over the course of last season. It would have had to be historically shitty tending to get worse TBH

Man mrazek was bad...

 

[Zacman]

I kinda' liked what Benn brought when he was playing too. "Muzzin Lite". He should be cycled in too, especially against heavier teams. He's capable.

Agreed perhaps if a mobile guy needs a break Timmins and Benn for any heavy guy.

 

[Its not your fault]

Good point. I wonder about that too. It's almost like it went right from the Caps non-tendering to signing with the Leafs as soon as he could. I suspect that Dubas must have asked for permission to speak to Samsonov, and knew he would be open to signing with the Leafs and the dollar figure needed to get the deal done..

Also how he felt comfortable with 25 percent retained higher picks.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Yes but you want to be close to lead in last game or two just in case Tampa drops down to 4th then best let Boston win division so they play each other round 1 .. and we can play Detroit/Florida .. bottom line we don't want Boston running away with 1st and the Tampa and us separating from pack .. then we have no control over our finish whether it is 2nd or 3rd who cares we know we are playing them .. same problem can happen in reverse if we surge to 1st place and Tampa slips to 4th .. it will require some sly coaching moves to make sure we don't end up with Tampa in round 1

This is the worst idea ever. On the eve of the playoffs, the last thing you want to do is to f*** around and lose games on purpose. Play good hockey, get into playoff shape and be mentally prepared to beat any team, that's how it's done.

That, and maybe some more sandpaper in the bottom six.

This would be my #1 priority. We have way more scoring than sandpaper on this roster and the value of sandpaper goes way up in the playoffs. Address this need and we could go far, ignore it and and this could easily end up like all the other recent seasons.

 

[LeafSteel]

Interesting perspective.

I'm surprised people are still going on about this. It's looking so far like the best trade Dubas has ever made, so complaining about how it should have been better seems really odd. Since this was posted, a few people have explained why this disappointment is unwarranted, I'll just say that I agree with them and leave it at that.

How am I "going on with this"?

I am simply saying how I and many other posters felt at the time of the announced trade. Shall I flip flop and post something different simply because he's doing well right now? You are evaluating the trade in the present, which isn't the same as when it occurred. The benefit of hindsight isn't equal here.

Others may have "explained" why disappointment was "unwarranted", which is simply sharing their opinion, which is what I've done. Not sure why some opinions are ok but differing ones elicit this kind of narrative, but I will just say I disagree with them and leave it at that.

 

[Gary Nylund]

A fair and balanced assessment here.

I was extremely disappointed with the move and still feel that Dubas did not use the extent of leverage that he had to get a better deal with more retention from Ottawa.

After seeing the non-sense that we've had to suffer through the last few seasons with our goaltending being unstable and having a direct impact on multiple 1st round exits, I was disappointed going into the season with 2 questionable goalies, and an untested 3rd in Kallgren, who I am not down on at all.

I like what I'm seeing from Murray and Samsonov, but it is still December and Campbell was All World around this time last year. It's a long season and the knock on Murray has been his ability to stay healthy. Hopefully he stays healthy. It would go a long way to how we feel going into the playoffs.

I'm a Leaf fan first, and I am not an anti-Dubas guy. He has his strengths and he has his weaknesses like everybody else. I won't cheer against anyone on the Leafs to fail and if Murray can stay healthy and provide stability in net, I will be giving him and Dubas their deserved accolades for a job well done........... I'm just not there yet.

How am I "going on with this"?

I am simply saying how I and many other posters felt at the time of the announced trade. Shall I flip flop and post something different simply because he's doing well right now? You are evaluating the trade in the present, which isn't the same as when it occurred. The benefit of hindsight isn't equal here.

Others may have "explained" why disappointment was "unwarranted", which is simply sharing their opinion, which is what I've done. Not sure why some opinions are ok but differing ones elicit this kind of narrative, but I will just say I disagree with them and leave it at that.

Have a looked at the bolded. Do you see how you're contradicting yourself?

Of course you can share your opinion, that's all I was doing as well.

 

[LeafSteel]

Have a looked at the bolded. Do you see how you're contradicting yourself?

Of course you can share your opinion, that's all I was doing as well.

Myself AND OTHER posters AT THE TIME.

The need of some people to nit-pick, put-down and always be right makes this place tiresome now.

Give it a rest, please.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Myself AND OTHER posters AT THE TIME.

Give it a rest, please.

Not sure why you're bringing "other posters" into this, what does that have to do with you contradicting yourself? And if you don't want to continue this discussion then by all means, give it a rest.

 

[LeafSteel]

Not sure why you're bringing "other posters" into this, what does that have to do with you contradicting yourself? And if you don't want to continue this discussion then by all means, give it a rest.

I don't remember you being this petty before. Have a great day.

 

[GrizzGreen]

Mess stopped by in the last PGT to let everyone know how worried he was about Murray after that OT goal he let in. Wondering if we will also hear from Mess tonight?

The Jim Cramer of Leafs takes

 

[Gary Nylund]

I don't remember you being this petty before. Have a great day.

Not sure how expressing an opinion is being petty, sounds to me like you're just upset that our opinions differ and I pointed out you contradicting yourself. No big deal, we're just discussing a hockey team here and there are much more important things in life. Have a great day yourself.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

This is the worst idea ever. On the eve of the playoffs, the last thing you want to do is to f*** around and lose games on purpose. Play good hockey, get into playoff shape and be mentally prepared to beat any team, that's how it's done.


This would be my #1 priority. We have way more scoring than sandpaper on this roster and the value of sandpaper goes way up in the playoffs. Address this need and we could go far, ignore it and and this could easily end up like all the other recent seasons.

In principle yes I agree but practically team does not want a 4 game VASI sweep when team has a 6 year run of losing round 1 .. does not matter how well a pro team is playing if VASI goes GOD like .. I'd rather let Boston and Tampa kill each other in round 1 and play the beat up team .. if you talk to almost every pro player they would tell you same thing .. but I get da fan perspective here .. i do .. i am a fan now .. but i can tell you a famous ohl jr coach who avoided a tender and a minor pro coach who did same in my 10+ years in system .. it is not about losing/trying in a game it is really about not winning a game by resting guys .. politically it requires a sly coach

 

[Gary Nylund]

In principle yes I agree but practically team does not want a 4 game VASI sweep when team has a 6 year run of losing round 1 .. does not matter how well a pro team is playing if VASI goes GOD like .. I'd rather let Boston and Tampa kill each other in round 1 and play the beat up team .. if you talk to almost every pro player they would tell you same thing .. but I get da fan perspective here .. i do .. i am a fan now .. but i can tell you a famous ohl jr coach who avoided a tender and a minor pro coach who did same in my 10+ years in system .. it is not about losing/trying in a game it is really about not winning a game by resting guys .. politically it requires a sly coach

Yeah that's fair. I was thinking along those lines after I posted - I would never tell guys to lose but resting some guys, especially resting the #1 goalie and so on, nothing wrong with that and yes, that has been done before. But if that depleted roster wins anyway, then you just have to live with it. But I also kind of feel like it's OK to do that for the last game of the season if the situation warrants it, but no more than that.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Here's a thought. A trip down memory lane.

Remember when Jake Gardiner got injured towards the end if a season and the leafs went on a tail spin. Almost missed the playoffs. That team couldn't handle the loss of a top defenseman.


I get the feeling this team is better.

I don't think prime Gardiner even makes this lineup when healthy. At best he's he's fighting Sandin for the #6 spot.