Post-Game Talk: Leafs are not better without Rielly

[ULF_55]

I don't know why that is immediately where people go all of the time. Probably because he is small. He was actually very good on the forecheck and was able to win puck battles. He also spent much of this year on our checking line, which is more physically demanding, and he was excellent.

The problem is that you have two guys on the line who thrive with the puck on their sticks and are both natural RW's. Marner is one of the top wingers in the league, but he needs the puck a lot for that to happen. Off the puck, he is still good but nowhere near as good.

Malgin is the same, but obviously at a lower level than Marner and now he is playing on his off-wing. So no matter what happens, you have one guy who is not playing in the role which allows them to thrive. When Malgin has had the puck, he has actually been able to do fairly well with it. He just doesn't get the puck a lot, and it would be better to get more of a grinder who is perfectly fine just parking himself in front of the net and cleaning up garbage for Tavares and Marner. Then let Malgin be the Marner on a bottom 6 line. So swapping Anderson and Malgin makes perfect sense.

The 2nd. line was just off last night.
Tavares was 25% on the draw.
Defensively it wasn't very good either, especially the one goal against where the entire line was looking at the puck and the defender just skated in behind marner for an easy goal. Gustafsson's 2nd. goal.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Leafs have two shooters, Nylander and Matthews.

Sorry Robertson isn't a NHL player yet.

They need someone else who can finish off the passes they receive.

Tavares is also a shooter, who can score, especially on the PP. The problem is that he doesn't seem to do much else, other than win faceoffs.

 

[therealkoho]

Burke and Nonis couldn't even make the playoffs consistently lmao

Wow do you remember that time Conn got so mad after a 6-3 loss to the Red Wings that he was quoted in the Toronto Telegram saying he was going to fire Hap Day and close his pharmacy in the Gardens and trade Bob Goldham for a bag of pucks, talk about losers in blue. I just can't believe they even dressed Goldham in the first place. Then there was that time that Teeder gave that puck away at the blueline and Boston scored shorthanded.

 

[ULF_55]

Tavares is also a shooter, who can score, especially on the PP. The problem is that he doesn't seem to do much else, other than win faceoffs.

True.

Anyone have his shot blanket?

Probably just me, but seems he's more likely to score within 12 feet of the net, than from anything beyond that point.

So, when I say shooter, I mean someone who can beat a keeper.

 

[therealkoho]

I don't know why that is immediately where people go all of the time. Probably because he is small. He was actually very good on the forecheck and was able to win puck battles. He also spent much of this year on our checking line, which is more physically demanding, and he was excellent.

The problem is that you have two guys on the line who thrive with the puck on their sticks and are both natural RW's. Marner is one of the top wingers in the league, but he needs the puck a lot for that to happen. Off the puck, he is still good but nowhere near as good.

Malgin is the same, but obviously at a lower level than Marner and now he is playing on his off-wing. So no matter what happens, you have one guy who is not playing in the role which allows them to thrive. When Malgin has had the puck, he has actually been able to do fairly well with it. He just doesn't get the puck a lot, and it would be better to get more of a grinder who is perfectly fine just parking himself in front of the net and cleaning up garbage for Tavares and Marner. Then let Malgin be the Marner on a bottom 6 line. So swapping Anderson and Malgin makes perfect sense.

How many times did Malgin take a feed only to have the rush negated and the puck turned over because he either got out muscled or made a really dumb play and coughed up the biscut

He isn't all bad, nobody is, but the checking line is better now without him.

Unless he suddenly goes on an incredible run and his inside out move suddenly starts working on NHL players, he stops being outmuscled 80%of the time, he just doesn't belong on a line that is supposed play in the opponents zone, that is supposed to create lots of high danger chances, and isn't atm.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

Margin very good entering zone and can stick handle between holes if defence leaves one open.

He can't shoot or pass or do anything else lol

 

[leafsfan5]

Didn't watch this one, I'm glad I didn't lol

Let's win against Tampa, they're catching up so we need to keep distance. I want home-ice against them come playoff time

 

[notDatsyuk]

True.

Anyone have his shot blanket?

Probably just me, but seems he's more likely to score within 12 feet of the net, than from anything beyond that point.

So, when I say shooter, I mean someone who can beat a keeper.

Absolutely point-blank range for JT, although he does occasionally pot one from farther.

Yes, for a real sniper from beyond the dots we have just Matthews and Nylander.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yeah they didn't disregard is entire resume prior to missing playoffs. Believe whatever you want though. And he wasn't fired, his contract expired.

So they gave him 17 years, and only didn't extend him when his team missed the playoffs. Not remotely similar to firing somebody within 5 years who's consistently putting out a top-tier team.

You're right, he was. Unlike Dubas he actually built his entire team from the ground up.

Both GMs built the overwhelming majority of their top-tier teams.

Then what???

They won a cup 4 years later, after multiple years of getting the same outcome as they did before the GM change. You seem to think the cause of the win was the GM change, despite there being no reason to think that.

 

[ULF_55]

How many times did Malgin take a feed only to have the rush negated and the puck turned over because he either got out muscled or made a really dumb play and coughed up the biscut

He isn't all bad, nobody is, but the checking line is better now without him.

Unless he suddenly goes on an incredible run and his inside out move suddenly starts working on NHL players, he stops being outmuscled 80%of the time, he just doesn't belong on a line that is supposed play in the opponents zone, that is supposed to create lots of high danger chances, and isn't atm.

I get a very similar vibe from Nic Robertson - Denis Malgin, but with a slight variation.

One can handle the puck quite well, and one is able to shoot well when not facing NHL defense.

Don't think either one is a solution to any Leafs' problems.

Haven't seen any great usage of line-mates from either.

 

[PromisedLand]

Argentina with the leafiest thing; held the lead and then blew it, then got the lead in extra-time and then blew it again. BUT...-> They won!.

Men in blue win in soccer

Can Leafs do it this season?

 

[Buds17]

Argentina with the leafiest thing; held the lead and then blew it, then got the lead in extra-time and then blew it again. BUT...-> They won!.

Men in blue win in soccer

Can Leafs do it this season?

Just let there continue to be no shootouts in the playoffs...please!

 

[Duffman955]

Didnt catch most of the game. Can someone explain what happened? I saw defense being super sloppy in whatever amount I saw

 

[IPS]

So they gave him 17 years, and only didn't extend him when his team missed the playoffs. Not remotely similar to firing somebody within 5 years who's consistently putting out a top-tier team.

Both GMs built the overwhelming majority of their top-tier teams.

They won a cup 4 years later, after multiple years of getting the same outcome as they did before the GM change. You seem to think the cause of the win was the GM change, despite there being no reason to think that.

You whine non-stop about "sample size" but now you're trying to claim that 1 season out of how many is grounds to not bring a GM back who otherwise built a perennial powerhouse?

Your standard changes everyday, it's hilarious.

They won a cup 4 years later, after multiple years of getting the same outcome as they did before the GM change. You seem to think the cause of the win was the GM change, despite there being no reason to think that.

Nice try attempting to put words in my mouth. Nowhere did I insinuate the GM is the sole cause of the cup win. My argument is actually based on playoff failure being just cause to switch GM's, something you tried arguing vehemently against earlier in the thread.

Both GMs built the overwhelming majority of their top-tier teams.

Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Rielly - 4 best players on the Leafs. Dubas brought in ONE of them. Once again way off the mark

 

[PromisedLand]

Didnt catch most of the game. Can someone explain what happened? I saw defense being super sloppy in whatever amount I saw

caps d-man scored a hattrick all 3 goals set up by kuznetsov and none of them point shots should tell you the kind of defense we were playing

powerplay they galaxy-brained with 5 forward set up that almsot cost a shorty twice

even strength only matthews lines and kampf line had some bite. tavares-marner were absolutely atrocious offensively and defensively

 

[Nineteen67]

2 games is a blip, 3 becomes a concern that it is a slump

They’ll want to get a W this week, because the between Christmas and New Years trip - StL,AZ, Colorado - could be one of those blah trips.

 

[Teeder Keon]

Wow do you remember that time Conn got so mad after a 6-3 loss to the Red Wings that he was quoted in the Toronto Telegram saying he was going to fire Hap Day and close his pharmacy in the Gardens and trade Bob Goldham for a bag of pucks, talk about losers in blue. I just can't believe they even dressed Goldham in the first place. Then there was that time that Teeder gave that puck away at the blueline and Boston scored shorthanded.

Lmao

 

[The Podium]

The fire Dubas crowd has gotten loud after 2 losses?

That’s 1 more than I thought it would take

 

[Racer88]

2 games is a blip, 3 becomes a concern that it is a slump

At what point does it get named “18 wheeler going over the cliff”
hahahahahah

Yup.

That's what I saw, glad I'm not the only one. From some of the comments here you'd think we lost 8-1.

Thank god it was only 5-2…….I feel so much better.

 

[mikeyz]

Dubas is lightyears better than the Leaf GM's of the past.

LMFAO no he isn't. Come on man.

 

[mikeyz]

Yup.

That's what I saw, glad I'm not the only one. From some of the comments here you'd think we lost 8-1.

Get used to it. Because until they actually do something in the playoffs and win a round at the absolute minimum and prove that they're progressing on their way to being a cop contender, you're going to be seeing plenty of overreaction posts after a 2 game losing streak.

 

[Dekes For Days]

You whine non-stop about "sample size" but now you're trying to claim that 1 season out of how many is grounds to not bring a GM back who otherwise built a perennial powerhouse?

First off, the irony of you talking about small sample sizes when you're advocating basing these decisions exclusively on a handful of playoff games, with no consideration for any context of what happened, how the team played, margins, or why they lost. Second, I didn't argue that one season was enough to fire anybody. I'm the one arguing that you need to base these decisions on a more comprehensive evaluation than team lose in playoff = GM bad man, and I pointed out the false equivalency of McPhee and Dubas and their situations. Third, it wasn't one season of not being a powerhouse. It was 17 years of not winning a cup, the 3rd straight year in the 90-point range, culminating in not making the playoffs, and poor performances (not just outcomes) in their recent playoffs. I didn't even say he should have been fired, but it certainly makes a lot more sense to go in a different direction in that situation than ours.

Nowhere did I insinuate the GM is the sole cause of the cup win.

You absolutely did. It's literally the basis of your argument, even though the playoff outcomes stayed exactly the same for years after the GM change.

My argument is actually based on playoff failure being just cause to switch GM's, something you tried arguing vehemently against earlier in the thread.

What I argued against was making decisions about the GM based exclusively on the team's playoff series wins and losses and nothing else. You decided to bring up McPhee, who was kept on through countless playoff losses much worse than ours, and only let go after his team missed the playoffs - completely contradicting your own argument.

Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Rielly - 4 best players on the Leafs. Dubas brought in ONE of them.

Dubas actually brought in two of them, re-signed all of them, and built a top-tier team around them. Everybody starts with something. It doesn't invalidate what they do with it.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Samsonov first bad game of the season

 

[Gary Nylund]

Get used to it. Because until they actually do something in the playoffs and win a round at the absolute minimum and prove that they're progressing on their way to being a cop contender, you're going to be seeing plenty of overreaction posts after a 2 game losing streak.

Oh I'm used to it, no worries there.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

I don't remember a lot about that period, but it seems to me that it was complex as to why Burke was fired. I don't even think he was given a full five years with the team. Burke inherited a garbage heap of a team, and he had to make bold moves so they could play competitive hockey (Dion, Gerber, Kessel, Lupul, and JVR). Yes they missed the playoffs, but I feel like Burke's outspoken/crusty/bombastic style got him fired before he was given a chance.

It's really hard to compare Burke and Dubas. Dubas has inherited a lot of talent, so the expectation level is at a different level. I just want Toronto to win in the playoffs. If someone feels that a different management team could get TOR to break through, then I'm obviously open to the idea of change.