Value of: Landeskog to Ottawa

[cgf]

It's going to be very fun watching Avs's boards when/if one of Landy/Duchesne gets traded.

Yeah, the level of arrogance will reach post-ROR trade levels...when the under-rated Avs player was traded for almost the exact package HFAvs said it would take, despite constantly being told that the club would never get so much for such an over-rated player. We've all seen this movie before, and the post trade smugness can be fun.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

IMO Landeskog is overrated. He is a good player but he's not a game breaker. Keep him.

 

[MakeCgyGreatAgain]

Definitely too much for Landeskog.

And Ottawa isn't trading Chabot. Might as well shut this thing down if that's what Avs fans want.

Might as well shut down all of HF because I haven't seen a thread on here that doesn't expect more for their own teams players.

 

[cgf]

IMO Landeskog is overrated. He is a good player but he's not a game breaker. Keep him.

The deja vu is real.

 

[strictlyrandy]

The deja vu is real.

It's pretty funny.

 

[Byron Bitz]

Am I the only one who thinks Ottawa doesn't have the assets to land landeskog without decimating their future?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Am I the only one who thinks Ottawa doesn't have the assets to land landeskog without decimating their future?

No. I think Ottawa is not in a position to trade their best high end prospect assets and 1st round picks. I don't think they are one player away from making serious noise in the playoffs.

 

[JoemAvs]

No. I think Ottawa is not in a position to trade their best high end prospect assets and 1st round picks. I don't think they are one player away from making serious noise in the playoffs.

Maybe not but they might be one such trade away from extending Karlsson next season.

Which is infintely more valuable than any of your prospects right now..

I don't think Karlsson has any desire to leave but IIRC he hasn't been happy with the Sens being a budget team and lacking the money or ambition to try to win.


There is a reason why the Islanders still creep into the discussion for our players even though they basically have no shot at winning this season.

Trading for a guy like Duchene or Landeskog sends a signal to your star player that you are not messing around and that you want to win when he is still in his prime.


I think people are underestimating how valuable that can be for a team that is on the cusp. Especially when they can afford to lose some great futures (which almost noone ever believes on hfboards but some GMs might think differently in real life)...


That said. Chabot is their only good D prospect and the Avs will absolutely demand him so I doubt that something happens.

They will probably go for a rental.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Maybe not but they might be one such trade away from extending Karlsson next season.

Which is infintely more valuable than any of your prospects right now..

I don't think Karlsson has any desire to leave but IIRC he hasn't been happy with the Sens being a budget team and lacking the money or ambition to try to win.


There is a reason why the Islanders still creep into the discussion for our players even though they basically have no shot at winning this season.

Trading for a guy like Duchene or Landeskog sends a signal to your star player that you are not messing around and that you want to win when he is still in his prime.


I think people are underestimating how valuable that can be for a team that is on the cusp. Especially when they can afford to lose some great futures (which almost noone ever believes on hfboards but some GMs might think differently in real life)...


That said. Chabot is their only good D prospect and the Avs will absolutely demand him so I doubt that something happens.

They will probably go for a rental.

Good thoughts but I don't think the Karlsson issue is pressing. He's signed for 2 more years so we have a bit of a window.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

That's your opinion. Mine is that the gap between Hall and Landeskog is about the same as Larsson and Ceci. No problem recognizing that the gap is a bit bigger for the D-men though, but not at the point that this gap is worth 24 y/o speedster Ryan Dzingel plus picks (like the poster said)

This thing has run it's course... now we're just going in circles. We'll see what happens but don't be too surprised if Landy isn't a sen and Ceci doesn't yield you a top 6 forward.

 

[Korpse]

I don't think Karlsson has any desire to leave but IIRC he hasn't been happy with the Sens being a budget team and lacking the money or ambition to try to win.

You do not remember correctly. He made comments about how they need to play a grinding style of hockey because they do not have the skill that the top teams have as a result of being budget team. Basically he was preaching the same message that the coach was, but as expected the comments were taken completely out of context.

Anyways this thread has ran its course. The great minds at HF can't come together and agree on a deal. Perhaps it's best for both sides to move on until there is some concrete speculation.

 

[jacks*]

Do any fans of other teams have something to say? Most here seem to be miles apart.

Chabot has to be in the deal or the Avs pass.Pretty simple.

 

[Holymakinaw]

I don't think Landeskog would appreciate going from one terrible team, to another terrible team.

 

[KevinRedkey]

Chabot has to be in the deal or the Avs pass.Pretty simple.

That's fair, but it also means you're not trading Landeskog. No team is going to give up a d prospect as good or better than Chabot for him. The value of wingers is just stupidly low right now, and it's the opposite for young dmen with potential.

 

[SpezDispenser]

IMO Landeskog is overrated. He is a good player but he's not a game breaker. Keep him.

I agree with this. He's not a gamebreaker, he's a good player. He's valuable, but Ottawa should be nowhere near this. What they should be in on is Duchene.

Landeskog will net Colorado a wonderful package, but to a team that already drips skill and needs a 2-way, 60 point guy. What Ottawa needs is the skill. The Duchene. Bring us the Duchene!

 

[RockyMtnRedhawk]

I agree with this. He's not a gamebreaker, he's a good player. He's valuable, but Ottawa should be nowhere near this. What they should be in on is Duchene.

Landeskog will net Colorado a wonderful package, but to a team that already drips skill and needs a 2-way, 60 point guy. What Ottawa needs is the skill. The Duchene. Bring us the Duchene!

Ok, price is still the same though...Chabot +

 

[SpezDispenser]

Ok, price is still the same though...Chabot +

I think the team would give that a lot more thought than giving up Chabot + for Landeskog.

 

[Xspyrit]

For the same reason why Ottawa fans don't see Ceci as one of their 3 best d-men is most likely the same reasons Colorado wouldn't want to base a trade around him.

Karlsson is the best offensive D-man in the league, and his defense is still improving.
Methot is a very good defensive D-man, one of the best in the league.
Phaneuf is a 2-way beast. Yes he is a slow skater but he is very tough to play against. He contributes in many different ways.
Ceci has been surprisingly deployed as a shutdown D-man by Boucher, and he is learning fast (according to Boucher). If he is the 4th best on Ottawa, that means that Ottawa finally has a quality defense.

The ONLY reason I would be looking to trade Ceci, is to get help at Forward (package him for a young top-6 forward) AND mainly to NOT LOSE Methot to Las Vegas. We really don't want that to happen. Methot is also best friends with Karlsson, they need to keep him in Ottawa.

I can understand that Colorado would not be looking at getting Ceci for either Landeskog or Duchene. It was NOT my proposal. I was initially discussing somebody else's proposal. But we are on HF, people are emo and jump on you like crazy

Thanks for the laugh .

Still funny that you are acting like Ryan has any value with his contract and that Ceci or one of your second or third tier prospects somehow will fetch you landeskog.

We discussed that already... But just for other people to understand (if interested lol)

Bobby Ryan on a contract like Landeskog (4 years at 5.75) wouldn't have any value? The guy has paced 57 pts per 82 games in each of his last 5 seasons (except his last season in Anaheim where he paced 53 pts per 82 games). Sure, he has a slow start this season but many factors explains it (his mom passed away recently, dealing with injuries, coaching change to defensive style where many players are producing less than before)

You still don't understand amazed that it is possible to off-set the difference in value... In the deal I was talking about, first the Sens are taking back soon 37 y/o Beauchemin that is still owed near 7 Millions $, which offsets most of the difference between Landeskog and Ryan salaries. And then it's not only "Ceci or one of your second or third tier prospects"... Ottawa adds :

- CECI : 23 y/o D-man that plays the hardest and the 2nd most minutes at ES (behind Karlsson) and the highest PK minutes on a team that is 11th for GA/GP, 8th for SCA, 7th for HDCA, 16th for SA/GP

- 1ST ROUND PICK : a 1st round pick doesn't have much value anymore so that you don't even mention it? You can get a damn good prospect if your team knows how to draft, that's how the Sens ended with White and Chabot (21st and 18th OA)

- ANDREAS ENGLUND : He is not a "second or third tier prospect" lmao. The guy has been picked in the 2nd round of the 2014 draft and Ottawa was extremely happy to grab him at this spot, thinking they got a steal (which they are notorious for). He has developed very well since... You don't know who Englund is? He was Sweden Captain at the 2015-16 WJC... If he keeps his trajectory, he ends up as a great 2nd pairing shutdown D-man.

Actually, thinking about it again, I don't think Ottawa does that.

IF you are expecting more than that, you have the right to, but prepare to be very disappointed

If the Sens want one of Landeskog and Duchene, the discussion starts and ends with Chabot.

If he is not in the offer, you shouldn't even bother.

Keeping guys like White or Brown (even though I am not a fan and don't want him at all) off the table is just homerism at its best.

Teams don't trade their young, best players on good contracts for second or third tier prospects and expendable roster players (and Ceci is just that right now. Nothing less but certainly nothing more)....

I'm not saying that's the type of deal the Avs would do as Ryan doesn't fit their age target for the rebuild and they are looking for a building block on defense. But IMO you won't get a young top pairing D-man for Landeskog, so prepare to be disappointed again.

But anyway, that was NOT the point at all of the original discussion. It was NOT my proposal. I just quoted somebody. I know 100% sure that this won't happen in reality anyway, we're just discussing hockey.

 

[Ivan13]

Ceci is so, so good he will be traded away so that the team can protect Methot in the draft.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Ceci is so, so good he will be traded away so that the team can protect Methot in the draft.

Here's Ceci's situation in Ottawa: with bolded areas for additional help.

You don't understand the dynamic in Ottawa. Karlsson is the best D-man in the East and is bolstered by Methot's style. Why? No one really knows, other than Methot plays his defensive D-man role to an absolute T - in fact, Methot is wholly underrated as he's (IMO) one of the league's very best shutdown D-men.

In saying that, as Ottawa, you don't lose Methot to an expansion draft. You just don't. You either grease the palms of LV with a pick not to take him, or you protect him.

Therefore...you have Ceci sitting there exposed for an expansion team to pluck him away. What to do? Well, you certainly don't expose him as he's playing 25 minutes a night against tough competition. His points this year are laughable, obviously, but his average before this was in the high 20s, so it's hard to imagine him not rebounding and being a 30 point D-man at some point in his career (and soon, IMO).

Is Ceci a stud D-man? No. Not enough points and frankly not a high enough hockey IQ in my eyes. Is he a very good #3/4 d-man with still some untapped potential? Yes, he is. And GMs are smart enough to see that. Is he alone worth a player of Lando/Duchene's magnitude? Of course not, which is why he's be part of a package.
Does he 'suck' or anything approaching that? No, he does not. And frankly, anyone saying so doesn't really know what they're talking about.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Here's Ceci's situation in Ottawa: with bolded areas for additional help.

You don't understand the dynamic in Ottawa. Karlsson is the best D-man in the East and is bolstered by Methot's style. Why? No one really knows, other than Methot plays his defensive D-man role to an absolute T - in fact, Methot is wholly underrated as he's (IMO) one of the league's very best shutdown D-men.

In saying that, as Ottawa, you don't lose Methot to an expansion draft. You just don't. You either grease the palms of LV with a pick not to take him, or you protect him.

Therefore...you have Ceci sitting there exposed for an expansion team to pluck him away. What to do? Well, you certainly don't expose him as he's playing 25 minutes a night against tough competition. His points this year are laughable, obviously, but his average before this was in the high 20s, so it's hard to imagine him not rebounding and being a 30 point D-man at some point in his career (and soon, IMO).

Is Ceci a stud D-man? No. Not enough points and frankly not a high enough hockey IQ in my eyes. Is he a very good #3/4 d-man with still some untapped potential? Yes, he is. And GMs are smart enough to see that. Is he alone worth a player of Lando/Duchene's magnitude? Of course not, which is why he's be part of a package.
Does he 'suck' or anything approaching that? No, he does not. And frankly, anyone saying so doesn't really know what they're talking about.

But if the major concern is that he's going to be lost to expansion, why on earth would the avs use their greatest trade chips to acquire him.

Why not send over a 2nd and a prospect to Ottawa so that they get some type of asset rather than lose him for nothing.

At this point, if it's a foregone conclusion he's gonna be lost to expansion, why wouldn't Ottawa just take what they can get.

It also suggests that ceci is not more valuable than ottawas 5th best forward.

Couldn't they go the 4/4/1 route in expansion rather than 7/3/1?

 

[Ivan13]

I said the same thing in the numerous threads we had in the past, I just don't see potential in him that Sens fans see, and quite frankly I think ''he has untapped potential'' is just lip service to make him some more desirable on the boards. He is what he is, a good #4 who can play as a #3 at times. He also isn't what the Avs are looking for.

 

[SpezDispenser]

But if the major concern is that he's going to be lost to expansion, why on earth would the avs use their greatest trade chips to acquire him.

Why not send over a 2nd and a prospect to Ottawa so that they get some type of asset rather than lose him for nothing.

At this point, if it's a foregone conclusion he's gonna be lost to expansion, why wouldn't Ottawa just take what they can get.

It also suggests that ceci is not more valuable than ottawas 5th best forward.

Couldn't they go the 4/4/1 route in expansion rather than 7/3/1?

They might go the 4/4/1 route, who knows. They love Dzingel, they might re-sign Smith, love Pageau, but that might be the way to go.

If they go the 7/3/1 route, then Ceci will be traded for sure, probably for some help up front, not for picks etc. That's my opinion.

I said the same thing in the numerous threads we had in the past, I just don't see potential in him that Sens fans see, and quite frankly I think ''he has untapped potential'' is just lip service to make him some more desirable on the boards. He is what he is, a good #4 who can play as a #3 at times. He also isn't what the Avs are looking for.

A 23 year old D-man who scored 10 goals in 75 games doesn't have untapped potential? It's not a magic number here, D-men take time to fully mature and although I'm not Ceci's biggest fan, there are major flashes of him starting to get to the next level - particularly in using his speed to rush the puck.

If he's 'not what the Avs are looking for', then just say that. I mean... no one's feelings are gonna get hurt, I was just pointing out to you the reasons why he'll likely be traded and the further reasons why he has some value in any trade discussion.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

That's fair, but it also means you're not trading Landeskog. No team is going to give up a d prospect as good or better than Chabot for him. The value of wingers is just stupidly low right now, and it's the opposite for young dmen with potential.

Habs fan wants us to gt rid of Chabot

 

[Foppberg]

It's gunna be fun if/when Landy or Duchene are traded and HF goes from 'overrated bums' to 'wow what idiots the Avs were for trading these guys'

ROR 2.0