Laine + Ehlers vs Matthews + Nylander

Discussion in 'Polls - (hockey-related only)' started by WPG99, Mar 11, 2018.

?

Which Duo is better?

  1. Leafs fan, saying Leafs Duo

    23.4%
  2. Jets fan, saying Jets Duo

    13.3%
  3. Neutral fan, saying Leafs Duo

    24.6%
  4. Neutral fan, saying Jets Duo

    38.7%
  1. WPG99

    WPG99 Registered User

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    I didn’t here a damn peep(a few but no chants) from a Leaf fans and I was there...:huh:
     
  2. oooooooooohCanada

    oooooooooohCanada Registered User

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    I don't really think it's fair to compare wingers to centers and shot qualities. Matthews position is far more impactful in that situation. It'd make more sense to look at whoever Laine's center is. But then at the same time Laine doesn't play top comp very often due to Jets depth whereas Matthews goes head to head vs the best every night on the road and sometimes at home as well when Babs is feeling fun.
     
  3. WPG99

    WPG99 Registered User

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    Even when Laine is proven to be better defensively in a certain area there is an excuse behind that...

    Laines Center was Bryan Little for a majority of the season(that’s no help on his part, Little was hot trash this season all around).

    You probably have not seen Laine play? Love the assumption though... There is no statistical analysis for the opposition he plays agaisnt(most of the time he’s on the ice I do see allot of top pairing guys, but that’s ancedotal as I don’t always pay attention to the opposition), if you can bring me proof I’m wrong than I’ll say sure and agree but for the most part teams are not dumb enough to put they’re Defensive pairings and bottom forwards up agaisnt Laine and Ehlers, again I usually hear and see teams best players while the Laine line is on the ice.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  4. oooooooooohCanada

    oooooooooohCanada Registered User

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    I have seen Laine play. And I also frequent Jets forums. Laine's never been good defensively. Does he have good shot rates? I guess so. But he is a winger. His impact on those rates are minimal at best. His job is to stick with his point man and get the puck out. You can't compare a winger to a center because they do completely different things in the defensive zone. All I have to say is that Matthews has to go head to head with top centers nightly while Laine just has to put the puck in the net.

    Do you mind explaining how those charts you posted work exactly? They seem overly complicated and don't appear to take into account offensive shot rates? I know that Toronto allows more shots attempt against per game than most teams, but they also put more on attempts at the other team than most teams as well. We're considered a 'high event' team. So even if Matthews has more shot attempts against than Laine, he could still have a better differential of off shot rates / def shot rates. Pretty sure Matthews line is a top 5 ES line as well, from a number of metrics.
     
  5. Maplebeasts

    Maplebeasts I See Demons!!!!!

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    He doesn't get anywhere near 5 shots a game. No need to lie. I shouldn't have to explain how shooting 50% is unsustainable.
     
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  6. CantLoseWithMatthews

    CantLoseWithMatthews Registered User

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    he averages 2.8 shots per game. may as well round it up to 10 to be honest. it's not like reality matters
     
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  7. Romang67

    Romang67 BitterSwede

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    He has slightly more than 5 shots per game. He had 379 iCF in 68 games before the Caps game.
     
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  8. wabagee

    wabagee Registered User

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    Not even three shots a game and scoring like this, can't wait for him not to suck and put up some points!
     
  9. CantLoseWithMatthews

    CantLoseWithMatthews Registered User

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    what's your point? that inaccurate information is okay because he's putting up points?
     
  10. Romang67

    Romang67 BitterSwede

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    Again, not inaccurate information.
     
  11. CantLoseWithMatthews

    CantLoseWithMatthews Registered User

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    saying he's putting up 5 shots a game is inaccurate. Shot attempts don't matter because they don't factor into shooting percentage, which was the point
     
  12. Romang67

    Romang67 BitterSwede

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    He gets off 5 shots a game. It's literally exactly what the originally quoted poster said.
     
  13. Maplebeasts

    Maplebeasts I See Demons!!!!!

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    Shots and Corsi are not the same thing..........
     
  14. wabagee

    wabagee Registered User

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    No, I don't even know the correct stat and don't care. You however came off as dismissive for having lower shot totals.
     
  15. CantLoseWithMatthews

    CantLoseWithMatthews Registered User

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    well I don't get the relevance of his shot attempt numbers then. the original argument was for his sh%
     
  16. Romang67

    Romang67 BitterSwede

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    ... what? Unless you mean the goaltender coach Jim Corsi, the Corsi stat is indeed the same thing as shots. It's not the same thing as shots on goal, which, unless I'm mistaken, the original poster didn't say anything about.
     
  17. Maplebeasts

    Maplebeasts I See Demons!!!!!

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    We're talking about how a 50 shooting percentage over the last 9 games is unsustainable, something corsi does not impact. What else are you talking about when you say a player gets like 5 shots a game?
     
  18. Peggy

    Peggy Registered User

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    I really don't care about the specific statistics to be honest. he gets off a lot of shots tho

    and again. where silly semantics matter more than actual results. onyl.on hf boards will get criticized for converting most of your shots

    get with reality already and stop playing with sill numbers that only affect your fantasy land

    the fact is laine has 41 goals. and he 36 last year where(according to.you haters) his shot was unsustainable.

    he's got the most goals in the last 2 seasons
    get with reality already
     
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  19. KingJoffrey

    KingJoffrey Registered User

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    Matthews is one step ahead of Laine.
    Ehlers is a hundred step ahead of Nylander.

    So Jets duo wins.
     
  20. Romang67

    Romang67 BitterSwede

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    If I say that a player gets off 5 shots per game, I wouldn't say it's extremely out of the ordinary to be talking about the actual number of shots he gets off per game.

    Corsi is unrelated to straight up sh%. The number of shots he gets off per game, however, is likely related to the number of goals he'll score. So I don't see the cause of this consternation about bringing up how many shots he gets off when talking about sustainable numbers. Especially since I'm guessing that the conversation actually was about Laine's goal totals this season, not just his current hot streak? Since, you know, a poster brought up Laine's goal totals before his hot streak in an attempt to obfuscate how the two players actually compare this season.

    Either way, to claim that the poster is a liar or that reality doesn't matter seems premature when the poster wasn't incorrect, no?
     
  21. CantLoseWithMatthews

    CantLoseWithMatthews Registered User

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    how? last year it was because of 5v5 scoring, but this year Willy is ahead in that area. They're about as close as it gets
     
  22. KingJoffrey

    KingJoffrey Registered User

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    27 versus 14.
     
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  23. Maplebeasts

    Maplebeasts I See Demons!!!!!

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    Why does it matter if we're talking about goal totals when his goal totals have been heavily buffered by this hot streak? He has scored about one third of his goals this season over 9 games on 28 shots. The argument was never about how many shots on goals he gets. He quoted my post saying his shooting percentage since February 23rd is unsustainable (just under 50% IS unsustainable no matter how you cut it) and got on my case about how crappy my logic is because I don't care about the results as much as he does since the results are CLEARLY a result of unsustainable shooting over a small sample size. I consider it a lie when you say he gets 5 shots a game because he doesn't. He gets 2.8/game this season. If he wanted to tell the truth, he should have said that Laine attempts 5 shots a game.
     
  24. MVPGoon

    MVPGoon Fat Salonen - Generational Goalie

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    Can't be better if you're lying down on a bed. It's not cool to say he's better.

    I vote neutrally. I just don't live through Matthews media hype that he's getting.
     
  25. Narow

    Narow Registered User

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    Streaks are part of the game tho...matthews scored 10% of his 40 goals in one game.... then he ended the season on a hot streak of 8 goals in 8 or 9 games....laine is on a insane streak now but i just look at it as making up for the time spent with little (a player who laine is not effective with whatsoever at 5v5 compared to literraly anyone else.)

    Im pretty sure every great player in the league has stretches where they overperform and underperform...
     
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