Ladd Little Wheeler VS Ehlers Scheifele Wheeler

[Whileee]

I feel that this is not a great poll.... I can't believe the lopsidedness of it!

LLW was an amazing line, ESW has been together for a small fraction of the games and have been playing meaningless hockey for their entirety. There is simply no fair comparison between the two.

True enough, though we've seen quite a bit of Scheifele and Ehlers now. I don't think their performance is a mirage. It could be argued that Scheifele has surpassed Little this season as a top C. Ehlers has a much more dynamic game in a lot of ways than Ladd, and seems likely to have a higher ceiling. So it's not like it's a huge surprise that putting them with Wheeler has yielded some very good results. It doesn't feel like a fluke to me.

 

[SLAYER]

True enough, though we've seen quite a bit of Scheifele and Ehlers now. I don't think their performance is a mirage. It could be argued that Scheifele has surpassed Little this season as a top C. Ehlers has a much more dynamic game in a lot of ways than Ladd, and seems likely to have a higher ceiling. So it's not like it's a huge surprise that putting them with Wheeler has yielded some very good results. It doesn't feel like a fluke to me.

I will agree with you, the ESW line has been a really nice silver lining at the end of a long season. I hope to see great things from them come October, I know that Chef will keep working and improving, so I am optimistic.

I definitely don't think it's a fluke, I just want to see more before I can declare them better than LLW.

 

[Jetsfan87]

LLW for now

If ESW does what they did last 25 games and carried it into the next year.
Absolutely them, but

ESW will have BRIAN LITTLE as 2nd line. That is the best 2nd Line C the JETS 2.0 will have and he is a 1C

LLW didn't really have a 2C to ease the pressure from them.

So LLW - they are criminally underrated in the whole league.

Though i like the future of ESW - especially when other teams top center intentionally don't match up with ESW. That's the respect ESW will have.
With ESW they are so fast ( skilled) that other Center get's tired quicker and have less gas at the end of the game.


Edit:

is it possible that ESW line gets 70 points or more each? Doable i think.

Wheeler 25 + 60
Schiefele 30 + 40
Ehlers 30 +40?
But lots of variable needs to come in play, especially injuries.

Wheeler the last 3 years been 69,61,78 pts. I think he stays somewhere around there, maybe 75ish tops.
Schiefele, I'll give you that one, it is possible with the way he finished this year off.
Ehlers - Jumping from 15-23-38pts to 70? too much, he finishes next year around 20-25 goals and 50-55 pts probably.

 

[Jeti]

Voted ESW because of upside. Can't say they were better so far (because they haven't been around long enough to prove they can produce consistently), but the potential to be a dominant line that other teams have to plan for is there and is something LLW never had. Ehlers has a long way to go to match Ladd at his peak, who was a top-10 LW in the league, and Scheifele has only recently possibly surpassed Little. Oddly enough, for the purpose of comparison, Wheeler is a better player now than he was for the majority of the time he was on the LLW line.

 

[castle]

Wheeler the last 3 years been 69,61,78 pts. I think he stays somewhere around there, maybe 75ish tops.
Schiefele, I'll give you that one, it is possible with the way he finished this year off.
Ehlers - Jumping from 15-23-38pts to 70? too much, he finishes next year around 20-25 goals and 50-55 pts probably.

With a full time ESW, I would high range those expectations for Ehlers. The black hole of Thorburn time is over for him, I think. He put in his dues there this year.

 

[Jetsfan87]

With a full time ESW, I would high range those expectations for Ehlers. The black hole of Thorburn time is over for him, I think. He put in his dues there this year.

I'd still put the top end around 60-65 pts max for Ehlers, he is a game breaker and I think will become a 70+ player but not next year.

 

[csk]

Wheeler the last 3 years been 69,61,78 pts. I think he stays somewhere around there, maybe 75ish tops.
Schiefele, I'll give you that one, it is possible with the way he finished this year off.
Ehlers - Jumping from 15-23-38pts to 70? too much, he finishes next year around 20-25 goals and 50-55 pts probably.

That sounds about right, but playing with Mark Wheeler will make it that much easier to put up points.

 

[Gm0ney]

Shiny new toy syndrome going on here

Well, that "shiny new toy" had a combined 49 points in 13 games together after the Ladd trade, so I think people are right to be impressed. Scheifele had 21 points (1.62 p/g), Wheeler had 17 points (1.31 p/g) and Ehlers had 11 points (0.85 p/g).

When Ehlers was out for 10 games with the eye injury, Scheifele had 10 points and Wheeler had 6. Stafford, who was moved up in Ehlers' absence, put up 4 points on that line.

 

[PhilJets]

EHLERS is crazy good in skates, he dances and he is as good on skate with or without the puck.

Realistically , he will be around 50 points. But if all the stars align, he might get very very close to 70 points.
That is a long shot, but not impossible.
What's good about the Jets is we have 2 good lines now
Ehlers Schiefele wheeler
Perrault little stafford < Perrault and little are good for 40 points each with Little at 50 points.

My dream 3rd line.

Connor matthews PEtan

4th line
Dano Lowry Armia

 

[Gil Fisher]

EHLERS is crazy good in skates, he dances and he is as good on skate with or without the puck.

Realistically , he will be around 50 points. But if all the stars align, he might get very very close to 70 points.
That is a long shot, but not impossible.
What's good about the Jets is we have 2 good lines now
Ehlers Schiefele wheeler
Perrault little stafford < Perrault and little are good for 40 points each with Little at 50 points.

My dream 3rd line.

Connor matthews PEtan

4th line
Dano Lowry Armia

Feel like Dano Copp Armia would be a far better fourth line. Copp has some offense in those mits, Lowry not so much.

 

[Whileee]

Feel like Dano Copp Armia would be a far better fourth line. Copp has some offense in those mits, Lowry not so much.

Copp took a lot of heat earlier in the season, but came on nicely later in the season. Maybe it was "garbage time" to some degree, but...

5v5:

6th among Jets in pts/60.
5th among Jets in goals/60.
Higher primary points/60 than Perreault.

By the way, did we realize that Perreault had only 10 primary points 5v5 in 71 games? He had a great year from the perspective of shot metrics, but only 3 goals and 7 primary assists 5v5 this year. Last year he had 22 primary points (5v5) in only 62 games.

 

[scelaton]

Copp took a lot of heat earlier in the season, but came on nicely later in the season. Maybe it was "garbage time" to some degree, but...

5v5:

6th among Jets in pts/60.
5th among Jets in goals/60.
Higher primary points/60 than Perreault.

By the way, did we realize that Perreault had only 10 primary points 5v5 in 71 games? He had a great year from the perspective of shot metrics, but only 3 goals and 7 primary assists 5v5 this year. Last year he had 22 primary points (5v5) in only 62 games.

I know Perreault is popular, but I could easily see trading him next year or not re-signing him as a UFA. He'll be 29 and is quite injury prone...not the kind of player one can count on for the rigors of a (hopefully) 100 game season.
There are some hard decisions coming, of the kind only deep teams have to make

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Voted ESW because of upside. Can't say they were better so far (because they haven't been around long enough to prove they can produce consistently), but the potential to be a dominant line that other teams have to plan for is there and is something LLW never had. Ehlers has a long way to go to match Ladd at his peak, who was a top-10 LW in the league, and Scheifele has only recently possibly surpassed Little. Oddly enough, for the purpose of comparison, Wheeler is a better player now than he was for the majority of the time he was on the LLW line.

Not odd. Ehlers & Scheif compliment him better than Ladd & Little.

Voted Schwheehlers because of the way they were able to dominate top lines on good teams late in the season. It may have been 'garbage time' but those teams still had something to play for. I don't expect them to be that successful all the time but they showed something special. Call it upside if you want but that implies 'hoped for future' and we have already seen it.

Well, that "shiny new toy" had a combined 49 points in 13 games together after the Ladd trade, so I think people are right to be impressed. Scheifele had 21 points (1.62 p/g), Wheeler had 17 points (1.31 p/g) and Ehlers had 11 points (0.85 p/g).

When Ehlers was out for 10 games with the eye injury, Scheifele had 10 points and Wheeler had 6. Stafford, who was moved up in Ehlers' absence, put up 4 points on that line.

There is your explanation. Had it been Perreault moved in instead we might not have seen a drop off in production. Unfortunately he wasn't available. Never mind any other doubts about Stafford. He has been poor every time he played the left side.

I know Perreault is popular, but I could easily see trading him next year or not re-signing him as a UFA. He'll be 29 and is quite injury prone...not the kind of player one can count on for the rigors of a (hopefully) 100 game season.
There are some hard decisions coming, of the kind only deep teams have to make

Why I want to keep Perreault:

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I think people tend to think of Perreault in the O zone setting up linemates. They tend to not notice his good 2 way play.

I want Perreault for the next several years helping to stabilize our inexperienced young players. He plays hard all the time, rarely if ever takes a game off and is responsible in all 3 zones. Outstanding example. Not to mention his excellent production. His ability to play both wing and centre provides great depth and flexibility. Might just be the best bang for the buck in the whole league and still will be good value after we give him a nice raise. He is the waterbug version of Michael Frolik with better offensive skills.

 

[Thai jet*]

Question, Ehlers played RW in Junior. Would he be better off back on that wing with Perry and Little. Connors could take the LW spot with 55 & 26. Maybe not early in the season when Connor will likely play down the lineup but after say the ASB.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Question, Ehlers played RW in Junior. Would he be better off back on that wing with Perry and Little. Connors could take the LW spot with 55 & 26. Maybe not early in the season when Connor will likely play down the lineup but after say the ASB.

I have wondered about that too. If Schweehlers keeps playing like they did late in the season it would be hard to break them up. But Perreault brings a lot of the same things plus a lot more experience. He could hold that spot until Connor is ready. There is no guarantee that Connor is going to move up the depth chart as quickly as Ehlers did. He might not be ready for that 1st line role for a year or more. That is assuming that he develops as most of us expect. I am just talking about the timeline here. Meanwhile Petan and Connor are playing 2&3 LW.

I can't see Ehlers moving back to RW until Stafford is gone, one way or another. But when he leaves it will be time to consider Ehlers back on the right side. A lot can happen in the meantime.

 

[garret9]

Question, Ehlers played RW in Junior. Would he be better off back on that wing with Perry and Little. Connors could take the LW spot with 55 & 26. Maybe not early in the season when Connor will likely play down the lineup but after say the ASB.

I could see that happening eventually, and working out.

 

[Whileee]

Question, Ehlers played RW in Junior. Would he be better off back on that wing with Perry and Little. Connors could take the LW spot with 55 & 26. Maybe not early in the season when Connor will likely play down the lineup but after say the ASB.

I could see that happening eventually, and working out.

I want to watch Connor and Ehlers together at some point in the future. Put Scheifele or Little between them.

 

[csk]

I want to watch Connor and Ehlers together at some point in the future. Put Scheifele or Little between them.

That is our top line of the future, so developing chemistry early might be a good idea

 

[Aavco Cup]

I want to watch Connor and Ehlers together at some point in the future. Put Scheifele or Little between them.

We could see it on the PP as early as next season.

 

[Grind]

I think schweeler is very likely to be more universally thought of as a "real" first line due to high scoring, but I'm suspicious of them being legitimately better all around then prime aged LLW.

Due to a lack of crazy PP production by really any of LLW they never got the credit they deserved. They were silly good at beating other teams best. Real shame we never patched the holes in the boat around them.

 

[Waldo]

The 2 best lines at the last part of the season were Ehlers/Scheifele/Wheeler and Petan/Copp/Armia.

ESW was the most dominant line Jets 2 has ever put together. If they have the same chemistry come the start of the season I don't see why they would break it up. If they start slow they may change but if so will eventually go back to it.

PCA line looked very good. They were reluctant to break that line up and kept it together for the last part of the season. I'm not so sure they will keep it together but Copp has shown me to be much more valuable than Burmi. It would keep Petan in the lineup and they were was able to generate some good chance with their cycling. I'm hoping they start the season that way but there is a lot of juggling to be done to fit people in, especially if Mo forces Thor into the lineup.

The Jets have enough talent to put 4 decent lines together, if Thor starts in the PB that is.

 

[PhilJets]

Feel like Dano Copp Armia would be a far better fourth line. Copp has some offense in those mits, Lowry not so much.

Copp scored how many goals in his rookie year? Lowry in his rookie year?

Lowry was put on a very difficult situation early part of the year. To center a shut down line.

It's too bad he didn't flourish. But He was getting his confidence back by the end of the year.

I'm sure Lowry will bounce back this year. If he does it will help the Jets a lot.

 

[garret9]

Copp took a lot of heat earlier in the season, but came on nicely later in the season. Maybe it was "garbage time" to some degree, but...

5v5:

6th among Jets in pts/60.
5th among Jets in goals/60.
Higher primary points/60 than Perreault.

By the way, did we realize that Perreault had only 10 primary points 5v5 in 71 games? He had a great year from the perspective of shot metrics, but only 3 goals and 7 primary assists 5v5 this year. Last year he had 22 primary points (5v5) in only 62 games.

He'll bounce back. He's been consistently very good scorer over his career.
This is a huge outlier in his normal, essentially scored 1/3 what he typically does.

Just like it's most likely that Copp falls down.


The one to really watch is Stafford. He scored at a lower rate than what I estimated (but his struggles were masked by high PP scoring), but spent some time with some struggling players as well. At the same time I expect him to start aging significantly around now.

 

[Whileee]

He'll bounce back. He's been consistently very good scorer over his career.
This is a huge outlier in his normal, essentially scored 1/3 what he typically does.

Just like it's most likely that Copp falls down.


The one to really watch is Stafford. He scored at a lower rate than what I estimated (but his struggles were masked by high PP scoring), but spent some time with some struggling players as well. At the same time I expect him to start aging significantly around now.

That's what I expect. Perreault to bounce back and Stafford to perhaps stagnate or drop. It all depends on who Stafford plays with.

Same with Copp - with better players he was able to produce. Hard to know where he'll go, but I think he's not an offensive black hole. He has some offensive skills and can complement skilled players.

 

[Mathmew Purrrr Oh]

the only combos I would trust Stafford with are either Perreault/Scheif or Perreault/Little but I don't want him getting top 6 5v5 minutes and I never want to see him on the left side ever again.

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