Line Combos: Kurashev

[bwanajamba]

I really wish we would have signed him to 5 or 6 years last summer even if it had to be at 3-3.25 (or even 3.5) per. We did not need the cap space for the 2 years (obviously by the stupid money we paid the likes of Foligno/AA/Perry) he was signed and trying to get something locked in (other than Seth Jones) long term at a rate that could be a bargain and in the worst case would not be a major hinderance would have been good. Unfortunately, playing Kurashev with Bedard will likely lead to having to make a choice between paying what the player really is verses what the players stats (sidekicking with Bedard) make him appear to be. Kurashev's production curve has him trending toward being a 6+ million a year guy which in my opinoin he is not. On a team that is not a bottom feeding toilet bowl (call it the ABC line effect) or not running shotgun with Bedard, Kurashev is a 3rd liner and should be priced at a range of 4-5 million per max when he gets to the leverage of free agency/open market.

Hoping Vlasic is a guy we can work out some term with this Summer as a calculated gamble that the later years of his deal could become a bit of a bargain if he continues to develop.

Signing him to 5-6 years last off-season would have been madness. I like how he's come along this year but as you say, he's mostly riding his chemistry with an elite-elite talent. You don't give guys like that 6 years.. certainly not before their chemistry with said elite player has even had a chance to show itself

 

[dj Mahoney]

Kurashev is Okay but he wont be worth the cash he gets and I cant see him flourishing in the playoffs either. We need size and grit along with the talent. Deal him for a 1st rder or some young gritty players (Will Cuylle) or similar. Davidson should take advantage of his bloated stats because you take away Bedard and he turns back into a pumpkin.

 

[dj Mahoney]

Not to mention having to wait 2 or 3 or 4 years for the mid first round pick to get to and be productive in the NHL.

The rebuild process is in motion. The timing is the defense comes online this season, next season and the season after that so by then the defense that started their experience clocks this season will be ready for primetime with successive d-men groups following them up.

The forwards, not needing to cook as long as d-men, will come online over the next couple years and be ready to compete at the same time as the d-core.

Players drafted this year and beyond are pipeline depth unless they're special players like a Celebrini who can cut the time needed to develop by most players.

In my opinion Phillip doesn't fit in the rebuild. Cut bait soon Davidson .

 

[kmwtrucks]

his 2 goals last game. an AHL player could have scored those. Bedrads pass was the elite portion Kurashev had a 1/2 open net from 15 feet. how was his scoring without CB. he is a 3rd line wing getting top line minutes

 

[BHawk21]

A guy that can play all three positions and up and down the lineup and only 24. Ill take him on my team all day. A mainstay in the top 6 wont win you anything tho.

Not great that hes got the worst plus minus in the league but tanking team rookie offensive center.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Disagree... He's obviously been working on his shot. His one-timer is actually pretty good. His release is much quicker than it was in previous seasons. He has a much heavier shot. It's pretty obvious he realized he's going to be getting a ton of looks with Bedard, and needs to capitalize on those. Has there been a time this season where you went "man, I wish Kurashev could shoot". No. He's a good finisher, especially if he's gonna play with Bedard. I can't think of a single time he has cost Bedard an assist. And I can think of dozens of instances where other teammates have cost Bedard an assist.

Kurashev's shot is just fine.

I think just fine is accurate. I wouldn't consider it a plus tool.

 

[Pez68]

Earlier on in the season I said I wish he could shoot multiple times. On the PP during the first 40 games or so he couldn’t one time anything. Also Bedard would have even more points if Kurashev was scoring them like he did against Anaheim.

But against Anaheim you could have scored those. They were wide ass open center of the net. He’s definitely gotten better as the year goes on. I’m just hesitant about paying him.

I'm also hesitant about paying him. I just think his shot has improved quite a bit, and it's not a concern.

 

[TLEH]

I think just fine is accurate. I wouldn't consider it a plus tool.

Yeah. Its not bad and its also not good.

I'm also hesitant about paying him. I just think his shot has improved quite a bit, and it's not a concern.

No I agree. Its not a concern. Was more pushing back on calling it good and a weapon.

 

[BLKHKhockey]

His biggest asset is that he works hard. Everyone works hard in the playoffs. He's undersized.

He's fine for now, but unless his offensive game explodes I don't see him as a long term piece. Glad he's finding some chemistry with Bedard, though.

 

[ChiHawks10]

His biggest asset is that he works hard. Everyone works hard in the playoffs. He's undersized.

He's fine for now, but unless his offensive game explodes I don't see him as a long term piece. Glad he's finding some chemistry with Bedard, though.

Since when is 6'0+ and 195lbs undersized for today's NHL?

There's nothing wrong with his offensive game. He'll probably finish with somewhere around 50-55 points and pushing 20 goals. He's a fantastic 3rd line scoring option on a good team.

 

[Pez68]

His biggest asset is that he works hard. Everyone works hard in the playoffs. He's undersized.

He's fine for now, but unless his offensive game explodes I don't see him as a long term piece. Glad he's finding some chemistry with Bedard, though.

Undersized? lol

 

[EbonyRaptor]

In my opinion Phillip doesn't fit in the rebuild. Cut bait soon Davidson .

I wouldn't say he doesn't fit in the rebuild based on his ability because I doubt we've seen his ceiling yet - but I agree he doesn't fit from a numbers perspective with, in my opinion, there are 3 LD's we've already seen in the NHL who are ahead of him - Vlassic, Korchinski and Kaiser - and 2 more LD's we haven't yet seen in the NHL who may be better than him - del Mastro and Allan. Having 6 legitimate LD prospects is a luxury that allows KD to deal one of them to improve the team in other areas.

 

[EbonyRaptor]

Opinions are formed early, especially on the internet, and sometimes those opinions become unreasonably entrenched - on both sides of liking and disliking a player. All part of internet culture.

Opinions on Kurashev are no different. Count me on the side who like Kurashev and see more upside than many of my fellow Hawks fans.

 

[WarriorofTime]

There's a lot of appeal to flipping Kurashev, but with Bedard on the roster, you have to be a bit cautious about upsetting the apple cart too much.

 

[ChiHawks10]

There's a lot of appeal to flipping Kurashev, but with Bedard on the roster, you have to be a bit cautious about upsetting the apple cart too much.

At some point you need young NHL quality talent. You can't just flip every single guy that starts to break out a bit, or you end up with a couple stars, and zero supporting cast around them.

 

[WarriorofTime]

At some point you need young NHL quality talent. You can't just flip every single guy that starts to break out a bit, or you end up with a couple stars, and zero supporting cast around them.

Nah, he's almost 6 years older than Bedard. Unless you think it makes sense to extend him deep into UFA years (and don't think you can replace him at a decent cap hit for the role he brings with some other UFA, and that's only if you haven't already upgraded/replaced the spot from within the prospect pool), his personal timeline and the Hawks projected timeline aren't perfectly in sync.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Nah, he's almost 6 years older than Bedard. Unless you think it makes sense to extend him deep into UFA years (and don't think you can replace him at a decent cap hit for the role he brings, if you haven't already upgraded/replaced the spot from within the prospect pool), his personal timeline and the Hawks projected timeline aren't perfectly in sync.

Hossa was 10 years older than Toews/Kane. Sharp was 7. Keith was 5. Replacing proven talent with randoms that you hope will live up to that expectation at some point is not always a good idea.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Hossa was 10 years older than Toews/Kane.

Hossa, a Hall of Famer, was added in 2009 after the Hawks had made the Conference Finals, as a UFA. Extending the Kurashevs of the world deep into their UFA years is more so a blocker of a move like that down the line because you're filling both a spot and a cap allocation with a guy like that instead of leaving both open for a potential "Hossa" UFA signing.

Perhaps Kurashev can be a "Sharp", a player that certainly was the right choice to extend deep into his UFA years. That's the debate really. If you can get a good package, then there is a lot of value to the thought that when Bedard is 24-25 the Hawks will still be graduating cheap NHL ready depth into the League because they've still been adding on additional picks, rather than paying a UFA price for a 30 year old Kurashev.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Hossa, a Hall of Famer, was added in 2009 after the Hawks had made the Conference Finals, as a UFA.

Extending the Kurashevs of the world deep into their UFA years is more so a blocker of a move like that down the line.

Your argument was that he's 6 years older than Bedard so he doesn't fit the timeline of the Hawks' future contention. I proved that's absolutely false, as during the last window the Hawks added and/or extended plenty of players that were that age or older than their young stars. Now I'm moving on.

 

[EbonyRaptor]

Nah, he's almost 6 years older than Bedard. Unless you think it makes sense to extend him deep into UFA years (and don't think you can replace him at a decent cap hit for the role he brings with some other UFA, and that's only if you haven't already upgraded/replaced the spot from within the prospect pool), his personal timeline and the Hawks projected timeline aren't perfectly in sync.

So what - every other player in the league is older than Bedard. Kurashev being 24 means he's just entered into his prime years which means he has 4 or 5 or maybe even 6 more years playing at his best and there's reason to be optimistic we haven't even seen his best yet. Even if you think of him only as a bridge to get to the Nazar's and Moore's in the pipeline - that's still valuable, especially when it's obvious he is a good linemate for Bedard.

For as disappointed as we are that Reichel didn't "take the next step" - we should be very pleased that Kurashev has instead of trying to find reasons to nudge him out of town. JEEZ-A-LOO!

 

[WarriorofTime]

Your argument was that he's 6 years older than Bedard so he doesn't fit the timeline of the Hawks' future contention. I proved that's absolutely false,

Not trying to be combative, but... no.. you didn't. You relied on a non-sequitur, because nowhere did I say every player on the roster in the future must be younger than Bedard. I am thinking from a cap standpoint of how the Hawks should look 5-6-7 years down the line. Kurashev doesn't necessarily fit into that unless the conditions I stated previously are met.

Unless you think it makes sense to extend him deep into UFA years (and don't think you can replace him at a decent cap hit for the role he brings with some other UFA, and that's only if you haven't already upgraded/replaced the spot from within the prospect pool)

This is what "keep/extend Kurashev, he fits into the timeline" crew needs to be arguing in favor of.

Even if you think of him only as a bridge to get to the Nazar's and Moore's in the pipeline

Bingo. That's his most real value, and I think the Hawks shouldn't yet be scoffing at future draft capital because it places a lot more strain on existing prospects/players... including Kurashev being a better player at 30 than he is today and providing good value at whatever cap it takes to re-sign Kurashev into his UFA years.

I wasn't sold either way, but all I said is "there's a lot of appeal" which there absolutely is.

 

[x Tame Impala]

I'm eager to see how KD handles his next contract. Hopefully he gets paid like the top 9 player he is.

It’s a mistake to trade him. Bedard needs guys to play with. That’s more valuable than getting back a mid/late 1st

 

[ChiHawks10]

Not trying to be combative, but... no.. you didn't. You relied on a non-sequitur, because nowhere did I say every player on the roster in the future must be younger than Bedard. I am thinking from a cap standpoint of how the Hawks should look 5-6-7 years down the line. Kurashev doesn't necessarily fit into that unless the conditions I stated previously are met.


This is what "keep/extend Kurashev, he fits into the timeline" crew needs to be arguing in favor of.


Bingo. That's his most real value, and I think the Hawks shouldn't yet be scoffing at future draft capital because it places a lot more strain on existing prospects/players... including Kurashev being a better player at 30 than he is today and providing good value at whatever cap it takes to re-sign Kurashev into his UFA years.

I wasn't sold either way, but all I said is "there's a lot of appeal" which there absolutely is.

Absolute nonsense. You posed the argument that Kurashev does not fit the timeline of Bedard and the next Hawks window of contention, and your evidence of that was a claim that it's because he's almost 6 years older than Bedard. I proved that to be false, and showed evidence of how it's false. I never claimed that you said ALL players on the roster in the future must be younger than Bedard. I addressed your incorrect assessment that he won't fit the timeline, and provided evidence to support and prove that your position was false. Take the L and move on instead of trying to misrepresent my position.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Absolute nonsense. You posed the argument that Kurashev does not fit the timeline of Bedard and the next Hawks window of contention, and your evidence of that was a claim that it's because he's 5 years older than Bedard.

Then you completely misinterpreted what I said... See my point about replacing Kurashev with a a similar value UFA if you need to. Most of the time, the best value a player like Kurashev is going to give you is during his RFA years (aka now) where he is cost-controlled and you can get him on decent value deals while he improves. That is what I meant by "timeline" and also what I meant by the value of flipping him to a team that can get better mileage out of Kurashev's highest value years (RFA) because they are more in their competitive window.

I proved that to be false, and showed evidence of how it's false. I never claimed that you said ALL players on the roster in the future may be younger than Bedard. I addressed your incorrect assessment that he won't fit the timeline, and provided evidence to support and prove that. Take the L and move on instead of trying to misrepresent my position.

Not sure why you're being so aggressive, but I don't need to "take the L" because you believe you provided me with new information regarding Hossa and Sharp's relative ages compared to Kane and Toews... Kurashev is just as easily a Tuomo Ruutu than a Patrick Sharp if we're going analogies here...

 

[ChiHawks10]

Then you completely misinterpreted what I said... See my point about replacing Kurashev with a a similar value UFA if you need to.

Not sure why you're being so aggressive, but I don't need to "take the L" because you believe you provided me with new information regarding Hossa and Sharp's relative ages compared to Kane and Toews... Kurashev is just as easily a Tuomo Ruutu than a Patrick Sharp if we're going analogies here...

I'm not being aggressive. You just never admit you were wrong about anything. I'm not making any claims to the quality of player that Kurashev will be, nor am I comparing him to a Hossa or Sharp as far as talent goes. All I was doing was proving that your claim that Kurashev doesn't fit the timeline based upon... his age... is wrong. Because it is.