Proposal: Kuemper to Toronto

[_Del_]

Niederreiter’s extra year freaks me out a little.

Plenty of cap space and no committed salary next year. Nino adds size to the top six. Would probably look good with Schmaltz.
Total deal saves cap and salary this year. And get a first and Drury

 

[TheDoldrums]

We are not giving up a first rounder to trade Andersen-a perfectly good goalie to get one extra year. Your a cash strapped team who is hemorrhaging cash and needs Andersen as much as we might need the cost certainty for the extra year.

Straight up sure but not a chance we give a first for one year.

I'm a Leafs fan.

Andersen might not be a pretty good goalie anymore, last season he was pretty bad.

Its not for one year, its for two years of an elite goalie at a good price.

 

[rt]

Plenty of cap space and no committed salary next year. Nino adds size to the top six. Would probably look good with Schmaltz.
Total deal saves cap and salary this year. And get a first and Drury

The Drury bit is appealing. I guess it’s really Kuemper for a 1st and then Goligoski for Niederreiter and Drury.

 

[rt]

Still doesn't explain why Carolina would do this instead of deal directly with Arizona for Keumper.

The discount on getting Andersen for Reimer would have to be a lot better than a 2nd to avoid trying to acquire Keumper directly.

I still see Carolina offering a recent 1st round pick to Arizona before the 2021 first, with Bean or Bokk as candidates to deal.

Bokk was selected by Arizona’s new GM Bill Armstrong, who was a big fan of his when his was the AGM in charge of scouting for the Blues. If I had to guess, I would think he would prefer Bokk to Carolina’s 2021 1st. However, I also suspect Carolina prefers Bokk to their 2021 1st as well. So there’s that.

 

[13pacheco31]

Every player is overrated by their fan base (myself included I thought Domi could fetch Brodin, he got Anderson - 3rd ) : remember the Bracco threads with him having tons of value but the Leafs just being too talented, well he is free to sign anywhere now since he has not even been qualified. Not saying Dermott is the new Bracco, but saying he would be worth a 1st to ARI is wrong in my opinion, especially if you factor in the tail probability that TOR does not make the playoffs and ARI gets a top 10 pick.

I have nothing against the Leafs and wish any Canadian team would win the playoffs.

Not at all what I was implying. But Dermott is potentially more valuable to the Leafs than that first round pick and he seems to get written off as a worthless player. He's 23, already proven as an effective bottom pairing guy and has quite a bit of upside. He's only played two and a half seasons in the NHL and has had some injuries along the way, so I think it's a little premature for people to say he's a no. 5/6 at this point.

 

[Funk21]

I'm a Leafs fan.

Andersen might not be a pretty good goalie anymore, last season he was pretty bad.

Its not for one year, its for two years of an elite goalie at a good price.

I understand it’s for the extra year of service but Andersen played in front of one of the worst defences in the NHL and still had very respectable numbers.

Sorry but I don’t exactly think that Kuemper is an elite goalie. He is very good and in the same conversation as Andersen IMO. I get that we are getting the extra year of control but they are also only having to paying 1 million dollars in real money. Very import to a team that lost 20+ million last year.

personally I wouldn’t be willing to hand out another 1st for a guy of similar age and just an extra year of control. Just doesn’t make sense.

 

[13pacheco31]

I'm a Leafs fan.

Andersen might not be a pretty good goalie anymore, last season he was pretty bad.

Its not for one year, its for two years of an elite goalie at a good price.

Good goalie has one bad seasons on a bad defensive team and gets blamed for losing game 5 despite putting up elite numbers.

 

[RationalExpectations]

Not at all what I was implying. But Dermott is potentially more valuable to the Leafs than that first round pick and he seems to get written off as a worthless player. He's 23, already proven as an effective bottom pairing guy and has quite a bit of upside. He's only played two and a half seasons in the NHL and has had some injuries along the way, so I think it's a little premature for people to say he's a no. 5/6 at this point.

We agree then, I believe Dermott could end up being a solid 4th D in 2/4 years, I was just saying that would not be of much interest to ARI if they rebuild

 

[BobClarkesfrontteeth]

I feel like the the LAST thing the Leafs need is goaltending

Andersen
Campbell
Dell

That's pretty good that's 3 NHL caliber goalies

Add in the strong possibility that there will be an all Canadian Division and if they keep the playoff format the same with the top 3 teams and a wild card team the Leafs are good enough right now to make the conference finals pretty easily.

 

[13pacheco31]

We agree then, I believe Dermott could end up being a solid 4th D in 2/4 years, I was just saying that would not be of much interest to ARI if they rebuild

That's fine cause I wouldn't do that trade from the Leafs perspective because of said reason

 

[seanlinden]

so the leafs get a better, slightly cheaper goalie for nothing and ARI gets a way worse goalie for only a second ? Sure... no such thing as a free lunch. That is the kind of deal you would look for though.

More realistically, you would have

To Toronto:
- Kuemper
- 2nd CAR

To Carolina
- Andersen

To Arizona
- Reimer
- 1st TOR

That is more enticing to ARI, does not change anything for CAR, while TOR only goes back one round at the draft to improve from Kuemper to Andersen. Really if I am ARI mgmt, I have few assets with value, why would I trade Kuemper for less than a 1st ?

Again, there is no 1st round pick that Kuemper can get. Arizona needs to realize that if they want a 1st round pick, OEL is going to be the only guy that gets them one, and it's going to mean they're either taking salary back or retaining. The ship where they get that without a 7-year retention may have sailed with Vancouver getting Schmidt.

There's just no market for goalies, and certainly not in a context where one of the primary objectives is reducing $ spent. Heck, look at the Matt Murray trade, and the only reason that the Pens were able to get that is because Ottawa had like 4 2nd rounders, and felt that Murray was going to be their goalie of the future. Kuemper is an immediate fix.

The Leafs get a different (not better, but likely worse) goalie -- one who's more accustomed to playing a tandem; and a little bit of cap savings / an extra year of cost certainty.

The Canes get a substantial upgrade and a true #1 goalie, as they've been trying to get/develop one for years, it costs them a 2nd round pick and $200k.

The Coyotes get a 2nd round pick (likely close to Kuemper's true market value), plus a super cheap tandem goalie, and one of Reimer/Raanta may be tradable at the deadline if you want to throw Hill into the tandem for the remainder of the season.

 

[Karl Eriksson]

Is Andy why the leafs can’t get over the hump? If not, then why do this.

 

[seanlinden]

Still doesn't explain why Carolina would do this instead of deal directly with Arizona for Keumper.

The discount on getting Andersen for Reimer would have to be a lot better than a 2nd to avoid trying to acquire Keumper directly.

I still see Carolina offering a recent 1st round pick to Arizona before the 2021 first, with Bean or Bokk as candidates to deal.

Because Darcy Kuemper has played more than 31 games ONCE in his career, and the Canes are presumably tired of constantly throwing tandem goalies into the mix hoping for #1 results.

 

[MinJaBen]

To Toronto:
- Kuemper
- 2nd CAR

To Carolina
- Andersen

To Arizona
- Reimer
- 1st TOR

Neither of those three way proposals is realistic for the Canes. We'd rather just add a bit more to the 2nd to get Kuemper. No way we are adding a 2nd to Reimer to get one year of Andersen.

 

[MinJaBen]

Because Darcy Kuemper has played more than 31 games ONCE in his career, and the Canes are presumably tired of constantly throwing tandem goalies into the mix hoping for #1 results.

No, we are not. And next year with a compressed schedule, tandems are going to be better than a true #1 and backup. Why do you think the Habs are paying $15M in goalies next year?

What the Canes want is an upgrade in the tandem, not an end to the tandem. Kuemper would do that well.

We don't want Andersen.

 

[_Del_]

The Leafs get a different (not better, but likely worse) goalie -- one who's more accustomed to playing a tandem; and a little bit of cap savings / an extra year of cost certainty.

The Canes get a substantial upgrade and a true #1 goalie, as they've been trying to get/develop one for years, it costs them a 2nd round pick and $200k.

The Coyotes get a 2nd round pick (likely close to Kuemper's true market value), plus a super cheap tandem goalie, and one of Reimer/Raanta may be tradable at the deadline if you want to throw Hill into the tandem for the remainder of the season.

Why would the Leafs trade for a "likely worse" (lol) goalie, and why wouldn't the Canes just trade the second (if that were the price) with Reimer to AZ to get the goalie with term who most everyone (but you) agrees is better than Freddy?

 

[Chrispy]

Because Darcy Kuemper has played more than 31 games ONCE in his career, and the Canes are presumably tired of constantly throwing tandem goalies into the mix hoping for #1 results.

You presume incorrectly.

Carolina would much rather improve one half of the tandem and be able to use Mrazek and Keumper next year than pay extra for a rental whose ability to play more games won't even be as useful with a likely compacted schedule.

A tandem will be an advantage in 20-21 if the schedule is compacted, not a disadvantage.

 

[seanlinden]

No, we are not. And next year with a compressed schedule, tandems are going to be better than a true #1 and backup. Why do you think the Habs are paying $15M in goalies next year?

What the Canes want is an upgrade in the tandem, not an end to the tandem. Kuemper would do that well.

We don't want Andersen.

For next year, absolutely, which is why Andersen-Mrazek would give the Canes a really good combo this year, and put them front of line to get the workhorse goalie signed for term.

Apparently the Canes did inquire about Andersen (and the return ask was Hamilton, so I can see why that wouldn't work) -- but I think it's disengenous to suggest that the Canes have no interest in Andersen.

Maybe you do something where the Coyotes get Dermott, Leafs get Kuemper, Canes get Andersen, Leafs get a pick from Carolina, Reimer goes elsewhere.

Why would the Leafs trade for a "likely worse" (lol) goalie, and why wouldn't the Canes just trade the second (if that were the price) with Reimer to AZ to get the goalie with term who most everyone (but you) agrees is better than Freddy?

The Leafs would do it for the cap savings and extra year of control. They've had the bonafide #1 route for the last 4 years and it hasn't worked for them, now they have Campbell who seems to have the team's confidence for 30 or so games (or whatever equivalent assuming a shortened season).

The Canes do it because they get the #1 workhorse that they've sought after since Ward was good.

 

[seanlinden]

You presume incorrectly.

Carolina would much rather improve one half of the tandem and be able to use Mrazek and Keumper next year than pay extra for a rental whose ability to play more games won't even be as useful with a likely compacted schedule.

A tandem will be an advantage in 20-21 if the schedule is compacted, not a disadvantage.

Yet we know that there was interest from the Canes in Andersen roughly a month ago. Nothing has changed with respect to the Canes goaltending situation since then.

 

[MinJaBen]

For next year, absolutely, which is why Andersen-Mrazek would give the Canes a really good combo this year, and put them front of line to get the workhorse goalie signed for term.

Apparently the Canes did inquire about Andersen (and the return ask was Hamilton, so I can see why that wouldn't work) -- but I think it's disengenous to suggest that the Canes have no interest in Andersen.

Maybe you do something where the Coyotes get Dermott, Leafs get Kuemper, Canes get Andersen, Leafs get a pick from Carolina, Reimer goes elsewhere.



The Leafs would do it for the cap savings and extra year of control. They've had the bonafide #1 route for the last 4 years and it hasn't worked for them, now they have Campbell who seems to have the team's confidence for 30 or so games (or whatever equivalent assuming a shortened season).

The Canes do it because they get the #1 workhorse that they've sought after since Ward was good.

The Canes also inquired about Kuemper, Markstrom, Hank and Fleury. They are doing due diligence to see what their options are at that position. Given that you are trying to offload Andersen for Kuemper, who do you think the Canes would be most interested in if both are available? I know who I think, and he doesn't play for Toronto.

 

[Chrispy]

Yet we know that there was interest from the Canes in Andersen roughly a month ago. Nothing has changed with respect to the Canes goaltending situation since then.

Carolina has a habit of inquiring about a lot of players mentioned as available to gauge prices. For a cheap price (3rd or 4th round pick for a rental), I think they'd consider Andersen.

At this price, they'd be better off dealing with Arizona directly.

 

[RationalExpectations]

Neither of those three way proposals is realistic for the Canes. We'd rather just add a bit more to the 2nd to get Kuemper. No way we are adding a 2nd to Reimer to get one year of Andersen.

That is why in a message below I mentioned ARI and CAR did not need TOR to have this deal done. I was merely correcting a TOR fan making a proposal Andersen to CAR for Kuemper in TOR and Reimer 2nd to ARI

 

[RationalExpectations]

Again, there is no 1st round pick that Kuemper can get. Arizona needs to realize that if they want a 1st round pick, OEL is going to be the only guy that gets them one, and it's going to mean they're either taking salary back or retaining. The ship where they get that without a 7-year retention may have sailed with Vancouver getting Schmidt.

There's just no market for goalies, and certainly not in a context where one of the primary objectives is reducing $ spent. Heck, look at the Matt Murray trade, and the only reason that the Pens were able to get that is because Ottawa had like 4 2nd rounders, and felt that Murray was going to be their goalie of the future. Kuemper is an immediate fix.

The Leafs get a different (not better, but likely worse) goalie -- one who's more accustomed to playing a tandem; and a little bit of cap savings / an extra year of cost certainty.

The Canes get a substantial upgrade and a true #1 goalie, as they've been trying to get/develop one for years, it costs them a 2nd round pick and $200k.

The Coyotes get a 2nd round pick (likely close to Kuemper's true market value), plus a super cheap tandem goalie, and one of Reimer/Raanta may be tradable at the deadline if you want to throw Hill into the tandem for the remainder of the season.

Kuemper has been a lot better than Murray or Andersen over the past two years, if we need to debate that point then why do you even want to do the trade ? And in your scenario TOR does not spend anything to have a better goalie at a cheaper price for one more year ? Come on !

 

[Dustin]

Why are the Leafs paying an absolute premium to "upgrade" on Andersen with Kuemper? I would barely add anything to Andersen to get Kuemper. If this is the only trade available I would rather keep Andersen and hope he is motivated during his contract year to out perform his normal years. If you lose him next year, big deal. Looks like this is probably all going to happen again next year due to the flat cap so you might be able to snag a goalie next year for cheap as well.

 

[Chrispy]

Also, according to Pierre Lebrun at the Athletic, the Canes are fine coming back with Mrazek and Reimer at this point and always were if they couldn't considerably upgrade.

The fact that despite Andersen being clearly available, they have continued to inquire about Keumper, and Fleury, and make a pitch to Markstrom tells me they don't find Andersen to be a "considerable upgrade" for the price he will command for one season of control.