Post-Game Talk: Krak

[WojtekWolski86]

Once again with the caveat that these rankings may have changed. We were top 10 in HDCF% and GF%, I believe both are 5 on 5, definitely HDCF% and that looks at shot location.

Yes the analytics folks have posted that. The problem with those charts is they don't extrapolate that over time. For example, in a single period (20 minutes) you have have 5 HDC in 2 shifts (~2 min) but suck for the other 18 minutes. You figure theres periods of time where nothing happens (sloppy play, dump/chase, etc) and periods of offensive possession by either team. Our offensive possession mostly revolves around the perimter, we literally bank on the other team breaking down on their own. Rarely do we cause the break down by winning a 1v1, skating by an opponent, etc. When we do? Then we go for the East-West Harlem globe trotter and have struggled to bury those chances.

 

[Off Sides]

The Rangers simultaneously rush prospects while also not handing them the keys to drive the team. So they toil in the bottom of the lineup and are taught to be passengers.

Thank you for succinctly summing up what I have been struggling to say.

 

[The New Russian Five]

It's deeper than coaching.

This organization has a generational, systemic rot when it comes to developing forwards.

What's the problem? Even strength scoring. Ok.

Panarin is on pace for 45 even strength points. Kreider is absolutely fine. He drives play at even strength like he's in a bus. Always has, always will. If you're still on this Kreider trip, I feel bad for you. He's obliterated draft day expectations and put together an all-time great Rangers career, especially for an in-house forward. He's a star. Zibanejad doesn't have the production at ES but he's shooting like -2%.

It's not "the vets," guys. I know we don't want to admit that, but it's not.

It's the fact that the young cheap depth -everyone needs it- hasn't even stepped into effectiveness let alone top six roles.

I have my doubts about Lafreniere that I've spoken about but they can't all suck. Something is wrong here and they still haven't fixed it.

Zuccarello and Buchnevich are much better elsewhere and Zucc is old. He shouldn't be getting better. Only Kreider has really made it on this team since Rod f***ing Gilbert (which is why Kreider should be treated like a golden idol in my eyes but I digress). Even Kovalev, who was pretty f***ing good for us, was better elsewhere.

Some people don't believe it's possible that different people are making the same mistakes, and I guess we can agree to disagree. It's obvious to me that this organization has a failing mentality on young forwards that has permeated.

I mean to be fair it goes both ways. Panarin and Zibanejand are playing much better here than the teams they played on. Strome revitalized his career as a ranger. Derrick Brassard fell of a cliff after playing with the rangers. Lias Andersson and Brendan Lemuiex still suck even after leaving the team. You can find many instances of both sides of the coin here. I do think there is something wrong though and that somehow this team being incapable of nurturing their young forwards.

 

[CLW]

Honestly they don’t deserve OT mins. Trying to score a goal I’m going to play the guys that are actively trying to do that. It’s not veseys fault he’s outplaying 1st and 2nd overall picks. These guys don’t do anything.

They got gifted first and second line spots thru the first 10 games plus. They did nothing.

They get their kid line reunited they do nothing but circle around

Tonight they were dreadful

And frankly when they do get power play time they do nothing with it. Laf doesn’t have a power play goal. Not one. In 3 seasons.

Yeah, maybe the coaches could help them with some f*cking ideas. The coaching is DREADFUL.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Yes the analytics folks have posted that. The problem with those charts is they don't extrapolate that over time. For example, in a single period (20 minutes) you have have 5 HDC in 2 shifts (~2 min) but suck for the other 18 minutes. You figure theres periods of time where nothing happens (sloppy play, dump/chase, etc) and periods of offensive possession by either team. Our offensive possession mostly revolves around the perimter, we literally bank on the other team breaking down on their own. Rarely do we cause the break down by winning a 1v1, skating by an opponent, etc. When we do? Then we go for the East-West Harlem globe trotter and have struggled to bury those chances.

I have no proof of this but I don't think that the Rangers have some outsized HDC totals in a couple of shifts over the long run. At least not any more than any other team. I don't even know that the eye test would tell us that we go heavy over a couple of shifts and then not over the rest. You have to realize that there are enough shifts over 20 games where these irregularities would almost certainly be a non-factor. Maybe in one or two games it's different. I appreciate that you're not just shitting on analytics without a reason why they're wrong, but I don't think that this concern is a thing.

 

[CLW]

This situation with the kids is also a self-perpetuating cycle that they cannot get out of unfortunately unless the team completely implodes, and they are not. They're managing to hang around in the middle of the pack, aided by other supposed contending teams that are also just floating above water. Gallant is really fortunate that the other contenders are floundering early on. But being in the hunt, the desperation to win games ramps up, and Gallant is trying to save his own skin and will ride-or-die with the vets. The other thing is that these kids just do not have any chemistry with the these vets.

People complained about Quinn. It's even worse now with Gallant.

Drury hasn't fixed a thing. Even worse Drury is simultaneously pandering to Gallant and making costly mistakes though stupid transactions and decisions that are biting the team in the behind.

 

[CLW]

As useful as most of the crap posted here


Be cause MINUTES! (for inferior players)

You seriously do not understand the argument for playing the kids more in important situations?

Caufield and Dach sucked too. But now they are not sucking? Why? They sucked under shit coaches who sucked the oxygen out of their talents (see our kids currently). Now they are soaring because in MSL they have a coach that understands their games. Simple logic and observation. The Rangers management and coaches don't give a shit about the kids, they just want to promote their own careers, just like the coaches Caufield and Dach suffered under previously.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

You seriously do not understand the argument for playing the kids more in important situations?

Caufield and Dach sucked too. But now they are not sucking? Why? They sucked under shit coaches who sucked the oxygen out of their talents (see our kids currently). Now they are soaring because in MSL they have a coach that understands their games. Simple logic and observation. The Rangers management and coaches don't give a shit about the kids, they just want to promote their own careers, just like the coaches Caufield and Dach suffered under previously.

Caufield was sent down and scored like 2 goals in 40 games under Duchairne and immediately flipped the switch and became a stud once MSL was hired. So don’t give me nonsense about how all coaches are the same . Ducharne took the team to the SCF and was fired 6 months later btw, so also don’t act like we owe Gallant anything either. If the Habs can figure that out we have no excuses

 

[Unpredictable1]

You seriously do not understand the argument for playing the kids more in important situations?

Caufield and Dach sucked too. But now they are not sucking? Why? They sucked under shit coaches who sucked the oxygen out of their talents (see our kids currently). Now they are soaring because in MSL they have a coach that understands their games. Simple logic and observation. The Rangers management and coaches don't give a shit about the kids, they just want to promote their own careers, just like the coaches Caufield and Dach suffered under previously.

I said something along these lines in a previous thread - the kids need to be put in certain situations. Mistakes will be made, but that's par the course with kids in the lineup that you're trying to promote growth. I'd start with OT since we have a losing record in the extra frames.

Why not? You already got a point and we're 1-4 in OT/shootouts so, get more kids out there in the 3 on 3.

 

[CLW]

the kid line barely played and yes, when they did, it was more often than not with the 3rd D pair. Laf has looked like ass lately but that is not helping him in the slightest either, they spend their shift stuck in their own zone because Hajek couldn't clear the puck or turned it over at the blueline.

still cant believe the coach putting Vesey and Goodrow out in OT on an OFFENSIVE ZONE FACEOFF over Chytil/Kakko/Laf.

This is incompetence on so many levels the coaches should be fired for that crap alone

 

[Kords]

When the media asked DQ if he's talked with Kakko his first season when he was struggling early, DQ smiled and said no, he didn't have to because he was a real talented kid who will figure it out soon. He meant it as a compliment, but it always stuck out as weird to me.

Different coach, but same philosophy on player development.

Here's how it's actually done:

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Caufield was sent down and scored like 2 goals in 40 games under Duchairne and immediately flipped the switch and became a stud once MSL was hired. So don’t give me nonsense about how all coaches are the same . Ducharne took the team to the SCF and was fired 6 months later btw, so also don’t act like we owe Gallant anything either. If the Habs can figure that out we have no excuses

There are also examples of players that never figured it out.

 

[Row I Goon]

Have just watched game.

The Good - 2 x PPG

The Bad - what price an even-strength goal?

The Ugly - Shesty was shyte IMHO

 

[duhmetreE]

When the media asked DQ if he's talked with Kakko his first season when he was struggling early, DQ smiled and said no, he didn't have to because he was a real talented kid who will figure it out soon. He meant it as a compliment, but it always stuck out as weird to me.

Different coach, but same philosophy on player development.

Here's how it's actually done:

I repeat it often

How you practice, is how you will play.

Our organizational skills, as a whole, leaves a lot to be desired

 

[AirGut]

what coach could we even realistically bring in within the next year that understands the power forward game for Kakko/Laf to flourish? Wasn't that supposed to be Turk's whole shtick?

 

[duhmetreE]

what coach could we even realistically bring in within the next year that understands the power forward game for Kakko/Laf to flourish? Wasn't that supposed to be Turk's whole shtick?

Jed Ortmeyer.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

There are also examples of players that never figured it out.

when it comes to consensus top 2 picks, there are only a few excepttions

Jed Ortmeyer.

Aaron Voros is the voice we need

Have just watched game.

The Good - 2 x PPG

The Bad - what price an even-strength goal?

The Ugly - Shesty was shyte IMHO

your HO is terrible and wrong, Shesty was great.

 

[bl02]

Have just watched game.

The Good - 2 x PPG

The Bad - what price an even-strength goal?

The Ugly - Shesty was shyte IMHO

sorry you lost me at Shesty being shyte.

 

[EdJovanovski]

what coach could we even realistically bring in within the next year that understands the power forward game for Kakko/Laf to flourish? Wasn't that supposed to be Turk's whole shtick?

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

The easy comparison with recent guys is Dylan Strome, who was "only" picked third but in the McDavid-Eichel draft. The talent wasn't fake or something, you can probably make a much sicker NHL highlight reel than you could for his brother (or for Laf - Kakko's probably close). Was clearly too good for every level he played at below the NHL. He skates like Ryan Reaves and he's only able to do so much.

 

[zlev]

Anyway, Jones is definitely a better puck mover than Hajek. But Jones makes his share of bone headed plays each game.

lol Torts would have them stapled to the 4th line instead of the 3rd line. vesey-carpenter-goodrow 18mins a night.

 

[Gordon Bombay]

When the media asked DQ if he's talked with Kakko his first season when he was struggling early, DQ smiled and said no, he didn't have to because he was a real talented kid who will figure it out soon. He meant it as a compliment, but it always stuck out as weird to me.

Different coach, but same philosophy on player development.

Here's how it's actually done:

This is kind of interesting. I'm not gonna watch this and go on a tirade saying how the coaches don't spend anytime with the kids, but it does make me think how much time?

PP1 and the top 4 D probably spend the most time with the coaches as they play significantly more mins, and more important mins than anyone else. There's only so much time to work with everyone else.

It's made me think about what Edge and Steven have mentioned multiple times, which is the younger guys being treated like assets. If you're constantly "waiting your turn", chances are you're not gonna be ready when it is your turn. PP2 isn't going to magically turn into PP1 if they get to start a PP for the first time ever. Everything takes work and time. We know the kids aren't getting the time. Are they getting the work?

 

[Off Sides]

No coach can do it himself, it has to be an organizational thing, like from the top they decide to promote development among the younger players to the point the older players complaints go unrecognized.

That is not going to happen when the older guys take up ~80% of the cap space and are the ones being counted on to make the playoff$.

Does not mean a different coach would not change some stuff, yet fundamentally the organization would need to shift it's priorities.

 

[WhereO Is Kakko]

Have just watched game.

The Good - 2 x PPG

The Bad - what price an even-strength goal?

The Ugly - Shesty was shyte IMHO

Not sure I’d go as far as “shyte” but this is not 2021-2022 Igor, mechanics-wise. Example fr last nite, in OT: last season’s Igor would never have positioned himself to hug the left post such that his arm was INSIDE the net. This season’s Igor did. Result = goal against.

Is it mental or physical?

 

[egelband]

I understand this but also don't buy this. Plenty of contenders fall short one year and come back the next regular season determined and run roughshod the next 82 games.

This core is going nowhere. Soft. We're looking at a true rebuild if Drury manages to jettison these vet forwards. Only Trocheck is a gamer among them.

The eye test does not lie. This vet group has the worst hockey fundamentals around. They don't win battles. They don't work the boards. They don't get in the dirty areas. Every game feels like a carbon copy.

I think having some ‘soft’ guys is ok as long as they’ve got guys like Trocheck stapled to them. The problem with that Mika line is - I believe - playing Kreider with him. Kreider plays that perimeter passing game with Mika too. He should be drawing flak in front of the net kind of like he does on the PP.
I think Lafreniere might be a better ES fit with Mika at this point.
Worth a shot, at least, but I suspect there’s no interest in breaking up the bosom buddies.