Kotkaniemi finishes the season with 27 points in 79 games.

[Jee]

Only Montreal fans could think that taking a player third overall and then some offer sheet shenanigans resulting in them having Christian Dvorak out of all of it is a win in a zero-sum schadenfreude game of 4D chess.

lol no, we all know it's a loss-loss, but whatever fits your narrative.

 

[Just Linda]

Kotkaniemi is an example of a player ruining his own development.

He was given every opportunity and failed to make the most of it. Usually I blame the team for not developing players right but I really don't know what more the Habs/Canes could've done with him. He's been constantly put in positions to do well, Habs pretty much stapled him to a third line role between Lehkonen and Armia, guys that were from the same country (Armia was from the city next to him). In his first offseason, Habs sat him down and set up skating coaching for him that he declined and instead made his own workout plan to bulk up.

The reason he wanted off the Habs was because he got scratched. He got scratched in game 5 of the Stanley Cup Finals after spending nearly the entire playoffs being put on the PP, in sheltered offensive minutes, and failing to make much offense. He was scratched after going pointless in 7 games and being a liability, he was only 20.

I'm not surprised he never improved since his rookie season, he clearly doesn't have a perception of his own flaws and a willingness to work on it.

If you ever want to read on why he never became an impact player, Jack Han had an amazing article a few years back predicting his stagnation. Han absolutely nailed it that he never had it in his game to develop into much more than we saw, he goes into player body coordination and body matching reflexes, it's really good.

 

[ijuka]

Kotkaniemi is an example of a player ruining his own development.

He was given every opportunity and failed to make the most of it. Usually I blame the team for not developing players right but I really don't know what more the Habs/Canes could've done with him. He's been constantly put in positions to do well, Habs pretty much stapled him to a third line role between Lehkonen and Armia, guys that were from the same country (Armia was from the city next to him). In his first offseason, Habs sat him down and set up skating coaching for him that he declined and instead made his own workout plan to bulk up.

The reason he wanted off the Habs was because he got scratched. He got scratched in game 5 of the Stanley Cup Finals after spending nearly the entire playoffs being put on the PP, in sheltered offensive minutes, and failing to make much offense. He was scratched after going pointless in 7 games and being a liability, he was only 20.

I'm not surprised he never improved since his rookie season, he clearly doesn't have a perception of his own flaws and a willingness to work on it.

If you ever want to read on why he never became an impact player, Jack Han had an amazing article a few years back predicting his stagnation. Han absolutely nailed it that he never had it in his game to develop into much more than we saw, he goes into player body coordination and body matching reflexes, it's really good.

Uh, he was made to play in NHL at 18 years of age, when he more than likely was not ready.

What they could have done differently is have him play in AHL until like 22 years of age. He's 23 years old right now so this could very well have been his rookie season.

 

[Oliewud]

hes a cocky little brat who refuses to accept accountability

I knew he would bust when he said petterson was "nothing special"

 

[WayTooCold]

Low IQ player just like Jesse Bustjärvi. I don't see any future expect in euroland leagues. In Sweden?

 

[bleedgreen]

Its all good. Enjoy the sweet revenge and your 4,800,020 4th line center. Or was it $82. Doesn't matter. It sure was fun when it happened.

You’re so right. When I look at our number 3 finish in the NHL despite a really slow start, how our special teams are amongst the best on both sides, out top three goal differential despite horrendous goaltending the first half of the season…..it makes me sick to think about how badly Koko and his sub 5 million contract has ruined us.

Ruined.

 

[SoundAndFury]

A thread on how Kuznetsov sucks, a thread on how Kotkaniemi sucks. Meanwhile, Carolina is considered the betting favorite to win the Stanley Cup final. Strange times.

Top teams get scrutinized, that's nothing new. Leafs, Oilers, Avs, etc. aren't exactly bad either but they are constantly being talked about for one reason or another. Partially that is because the stakes for the winning teams are the highest and until you do win the cup every decision you make is potentially a bad one.

It also doesn't help that while most other fan bases recognize their bad contracts are bad and bad decisions were wrong, with Canes you get myriad of explanations how it's all actually good and part of the master plan.

 

[EbonyRaptor]

Best case scenario for us Canes fans is a team like Chicago or SJ takes him on board for future considerations.

The Hawks have the cap space to do a cap dump trade but 6 years is a bit too long. The compensation the Hawks would want for a 6-year cap dump would be cost prohibitive from the Canes perspective - like a 2024 and 2025 1st or Necas or Jarvis ... see - too much for the Caps to pay.

Yep - buyout.

 

[Frank Drebin]

You’re so right. When I look at our number 3 finish in the NHL despite a really slow start, how our special teams are amongst the best on both sides, out top three goal differential despite horrendous goaltending the first half of the season…..it makes me sick to think about how badly Koko and his sub 5 million contract has ruined us.

Ruined.

Kotkaniemi was a big part in that was he? Lots of backcheching?

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I'm not sure whats funnier, Habs fans for years trying to convince everyone he doesn't suck, or Canes fans trying to convince everyone this wasn't just some failed attempt at petty revenge and they actually did want the player

you would think he was the best player in the world the way Habs talked about him, was really funny how much their opinions on him changed as soon as he got a offer sheet

 

[pld459666]

It could be that the 25-40+ point swing is the type of player you can expect.

Does he kill penalties?

It's pretty steep contract, but with cap rising, should be ok for a 3rd liner

 

[bleedgreen]

Kotkaniemi was a big part in that was he? Lots of backcheching?

Well he played in 79 games…..so yes! The Canes are a “team” and everyone contributes one way or another.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Well he played in 79 games…..so yes! The Canes are a “team” and everyone contributes one way or another.

Right on. Hope that signing continues to pay dividends for the canes.

 

[Montreal Shadow]

you would think he was the best player in the world the way Habs talked about him, was really funny how much their opinions on him changed as soon as he got a offer sheet

Are you ever not full of shit?

 

[Chan790]

The compensation the Hawks would want for a 6-year cap dump would be cost prohibitive from the Canes perspective - like a 2024 and 2025 1st or Necas or Jarvis ... see - too much for the Caps to pay.

Yep - buyout.

That price would be extortionate. He's not rat meat, he's a contributing player (defensively, at least) who has no clear future or present role for the Canes paid slightly on the high side on a contract that will age well.

He won't cost us anything approaching that to move, the problem we have is that we're probably looking to max the cap savings now and retention is entirely off the table (we cannot risk someone else buying him out and tying us to a retention slot for that many years) so we probably end up taking back another contract we'd rather not have, which we'd have to move.

Or...yup. Buyout.

 

[Frank Drebin]

That price would be extortionate. He's not rat meat, he's a contributing player (defensively, at least) who has no clear future or present role for the Canes paid slightly on the high side on a contract that will age well.

He won't cost us anything approaching that to move, the problem we have is that we're probably looking to max the cap savings now and retention is entirely off the table (we cannot risk someone else buying him out and tying us to a retention slot for that many years) so we probably end up taking back another contract we'd rather not have, which we'd have to move.

Or...yup. Buyout.

Yeah no he's not going to cost Jarvis or a necas to move lol. Realistically he should be making 3.0 - 3.5 on a shorter deal.

But does a buyout make sense? 800k against the cap means that there effectively can only pay his replacement 4.0 m to stay cap neutral.

Are there better players for 4.0 m? I have to think yeah guys like Monahan and henrique might be better fits if you could grab them for 4x3 each.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

That price would be extortionate. He's not rat meat, he's a contributing player (defensively, at least) who has no clear future or present role for the Canes paid slightly on the high side on a contract that will age well.

He won't cost us anything approaching that to move, the problem we have is that we're probably looking to max the cap savings now and retention is entirely off the table (we cannot risk someone else buying him out and tying us to a retention slot for that many years) so we probably end up taking back another contract we'd rather not have, which we'd have to move.

Or...yup. Buyout.

Sounds like a buyout

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

The compensation the Hawks would want for a 6-year cap dump would be cost prohibitive from the Canes perspective - like a 2024 and 2025 1st or Necas or Jarvis

lmao

 

[Fatass]

That price would be extortionate. He's not rat meat, he's a contributing player (defensively, at least) who has no clear future or present role for the Canes paid slightly on the high side on a contract that will age well.

He won't cost us anything approaching that to move, the problem we have is that we're probably looking to max the cap savings now and retention is entirely off the table (we cannot risk someone else buying him out and tying us to a retention slot for that many years) so we probably end up taking back another contract we'd rather not have, which we'd have to move.

Or...yup. Buyout.

Is JK actually even decent defensively though? He’s a dash 4 on a club full of plus players.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Are you ever not full of shit?

so you deny Habs fans saying he was going to be a great player then as soon as he was moved he was nothing more than a 4th liner?

 

[Montreal Shadow]

so you deny Habs fans saying he was going to be a great player then as soon as he was moved he was nothing more than a 4th liner?

Yes. I didn't like the pick from the start and Kotkaniemi was incredibly divisive from the moment he was drafted. He spent three seasons with Montreal with no clear signs of improvement and a lot of us were already calling him a bust or a huge disappointment.

That the whole fanbase suddenly turned on him when he was offersheeted is pure fantasy in your head.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Yes. I didn't like the pick from the start and Kotkaniemi was incredibly divisive from the moment he was drafted. He spent three seasons with Montreal with no clear signs of improvement and a lot of us were already calling him a bust or a huge disappointment.

That the whole fanbase suddenly turned on him when he was offersheeted is pure fantasy in your head.

seems like you have selective memory to me.

 

[bleedgreen]

The Hawks have the cap space to do a cap dump trade but 6 years is a bit too long. The compensation the Hawks would want for a 6-year cap dump would be cost prohibitive from the Canes perspective - like a 2024 and 2025 1st or Necas or Jarvis ... see - too much for the Caps to pay.

Yep - buyout.

 

[Andrei79]

seems like you have selective memory to me.

No, he's describing the situation very accurately.

 

[Jee]

seems like you have selective memory to me.

You think your opinions are facts.