Kitchener Rangers 2015-16 Season Thread (part 4)

[Rangerette]

I was looking for some stats and glanced at the PK stats just to see where the Rangers sat in the playoffs. I was surprised to see they are dead last. 16th out of 16. They are nearly 10% worse than any other team in the second round (Soo 69.4% against Rangers 60%).

I'm surprised you were surprised . Special teams has been brutal, particularly the penalty kill. I was wondering what these NHL coaches are supposed to be teaching these kids. Whatever it is, isn't working...

 

[aresknights]

Interesting reading the coaching critiquing that goes on on these boards. ( not by everyone by any means)
London fans complain all year (every year) about Dale. He doesn't use kids, wrong systems, can't adjust ect......esp early this year, but Ranger fans see him as out coaching MVR, and doing all the little things
Spits fans see MVR (n staff) as out coaching Thompson (n staff) by a long shot. More than one Spits fan has criticized Dales talents as a coach.
And on and on.
Most of these coaches know the X n Os, adjustment to make vs certain systems, PK and PP setups.

I think it comes to each individual group of players, their collective buy in, how the staff gels with them ect... An ever changing dynamic when dealing with teens.
Coaches don't get smart, stupid,smart, stupid. It's just about the right fit at the right time. The best coaches get the most out their players the most often but even the best have games, slumps, even seasons where it just doesn't gel.
It's not all on coaches.
Kids play the game and are the biggest factor, most often in Ws n Ls. Sure some staff > than others but it's not as big a reason as the other factors.
Just My opinion.
Rangers got a good one in MVR

 

[rangersblues]

Interesting reading the coaching critiquing that goes on on these boards. ( not by everyone by any means)
London fans complain all year (every year) about Dale. He doesn't use kids, wrong systems, can't adjust ect......esp early this year, but Ranger fans see him as out coaching MVR, and doing all the little things
Spits fans see MVR (n staff) as out coaching Thompson (n staff) by a long shot. More than one Spits fan has criticized Dales talents as a coach.
And on and on.
Most of these coaches know the X n Os, adjustment to make vs certain systems, PK and PP setups.

I think it comes to each individual group of players, their collective buy in, how the staff gels with them ect... An ever changing dynamic when dealing with teens.
Coaches don't get smart, stupid,smart, stupid. It's just about the right fit at the right time. The best coaches get the most out their players the most often but even the best have games, slumps, even seasons where it just doesn't gel.
It's not all on coaches.
Kids play the game and are the biggest factor, most often in Ws n Ls. Sure some staff > than others but it's not as big a reason as the other factors.
Just My opinion.
Rangers got a good one in MVR

Looking from 100 km east it's tough to find fault with Hunter.

While I'm not quite 100% sold on MVR after just one year, I am a huge supporter. He's light years ahead of what we previously had after DeBoer.

 

[Sleeperpick]

And yet our Rangers fail to crunch them. I think it was Diperna once that crunched Marner along the boards and he didn't like the effects of it. We need a canon ball line like London use to have. If Hunter is going to play the top line three quarters of the game they should be bruised and battered by the end of the game. If your team is afraid to hit because of penalties they should find another sport.

Unfortunately we do not have that type of team though.

 

[Mach85]

Interesting reading the coaching critiquing that goes on on these boards. ( not by everyone by any means)
London fans complain all year (every year) about Dale. He doesn't use kids, wrong systems, can't adjust ect......esp early this year, but Ranger fans see him as out coaching MVR, and doing all the little things
Spits fans see MVR (n staff) as out coaching Thompson (n staff) by a long shot. More than one Spits fan has criticized Dales talents as a coach.
And on and on.
Most of these coaches know the X n Os, adjustment to make vs certain systems, PK and PP setups.

I think it comes to each individual group of players, their collective buy in, how the staff gels with them ect... An ever changing dynamic when dealing with teens.
Coaches don't get smart, stupid,smart, stupid. It's just about the right fit at the right time. The best coaches get the most out their players the most often but even the best have games, slumps, even seasons where it just doesn't gel.
It's not all on coaches.
Kids play the game and are the biggest factor, most often in Ws n Ls. Sure some staff > than others but it's not as big a reason as the other factors.
Just My opinion.
Rangers got a good one in MVR

This is a very good post. Coaches have to adjust their tactics to their personnel, and to the level of buy-in they're getting - absolutely. Look at the Leafs with Carlyle and with Babcock. Carlyle could not do the things Babcock is doing with Kessel and co. to placate, and he chose to adjust accordingly. Babcock has a rep that allows him to play whatever system he chooses. A basketball parallel is Phil Jackson. He runs the Triangle offence, which is a complicated system that takes a ton of buy-in, but was ahead of the game in that era - but the players had to buy-in, and the right personnel had to be acquired to fit the system.

 

[bobber]

I think the Ranger players have all bought into the system here. I don't see that as a problem. I just think London over the last few years have drafted better than most and had the advantage of a few highly skilled players wanting to play on with a top franchise. Its confusing to watch some of the set plays here at times. On the PP the Rangers have a set play where the puck carrier passes to a forward who proceeds up to the offensive blue line passes back to the D and the forwards stop outside the blue line and wait for the D to dump the puck. It stops the whole play at the blue line if they fail to retrieve the dumped in puck. If it works it looks great but it stops the flow if it doesn't . Must be an NHL thing. I am old and confused now but that isn't helping.

 

[bobber]

I think another issue was Murray gave up three seconds for Tortora(sp) early and gave away a third for Fabbri and what ever else he had in the cupboard on a year when he had a mature team. This team s not build to go all the way with the squad they have IMO. They had to add to compete with Erie and London in the west. Never had the assets to get them over the hump. I guess they have plans going forward and viewed this season as a competitive one where you keep your fingers crossed that a miracle happens.
From the London Free Press:
“We’re not going against the (Ryan) MacInnis line, so maybe we take some more risks offensively,” MacDonald said. “They (the Rangers) didn’t want MacInnis against us, so we cycled pucks, used our strengths and potted one.”

 

[Ward Cornell]

I think another issue was Murray gave up three seconds for Tortora(sp) early and gave away a third for Fabbri and what ever else he had in the cupboard on a year when he had a mature team. This team s not build to go all the way with the squad they have IMO. They had to add to compete with Erie and London in the west. Never had the assets to get them over the hump. I guess they have plans going forward and viewed this season as a competitive one where you keep your fingers crossed that a miracle happens.

Go for it like Sarnia and Kingston?......Where did that get'm?

I believe even with a Travis Konecny or a DalColle the Rangers still wouldn't be on par with the Knights and especially the Otters this season.
Next season, I suspect we'll be happy that MH didn't spend too wildly this season. We've seen what it looks like when we have a GM that see's only "sunshine
and lollipops" at every trade deadline. There's a time and place for "going for it" and while the Rangers had a good season adding expensive pieces
would have been foolhardy.

Not only does a GM know when to buy but more importantly is having a GM knowing when to sell. For me that's been London's
major reason why they've been usually one of the favourites. Having multiple picks in rounds 2 to 5 is vital, looking at what the Rangers have in
their cupboard the next few yrs MH has done a good job. Next season, if a few past draft picks do show up, MH can sell and have the Rangers not drop off in the standings. This past draft does look promising from all reports and could leave Hiebert with multiple options .

 

[bobber]

Go for it like Sarnia and Kingston?......Where did that get'm?

I believe even with a Travis Konecny or a DalColle the Rangers still wouldn't be on par with the Knights and especially the Otters this season.
Next season, I suspect we'll be happy that MH didn't spend too wildly this season. We've seen what it looks like when we have a GM that see's only "sunshine
and lollipops" at every trade deadline. There's a time and place for "going for it" and while the Rangers had a good season adding expensive pieces
would have been foolhardy.

But Ward you loved Gilmore when he played for the Leafs: laugh: I agree. Making big expensive trades that cost the future can come back and bite a team for years. Ask Deboer before he ran off how Spott made out with what he left in the cupboard

 

[Buttsy]

London fans complain all year (every year) about Dale. He doesn't use kids, wrong systems, can't adjust ect......esp early this year, but Ranger fans see him as out coaching MVR, and doing all the little things

More than one Spits fan has criticized Dales talents as a coach.
And on and on.

I think Dale's judged by many on his playing career as certainly you either admired the guy for his work ethic as a player or remember that one hit from behind......

 

[RayzorIsDull]

But Ward you loved Gilmore when he played for the Leafs: laugh: I agree. Making big expensive trades that cost the future can come back and bite a team for years. Ask Deboer before he ran off how Spott made out with what he left in the cupboard

Didn't DeBoer have to make big expensive trades because they were hosting the Memorial Cup before he left? Unless you're referring to the Downie trade in 07.

 

[CharlieGirl]

I think Dale's judged by many on his playing career as certainly you either admired the guy for his work ethic as a player or remember that one hit from behind......

Or you dislike the coach for the condescending, socially awkward attitude, the aptitude for diving he coaches, and the filth of some former players/teams.

The way Kitchener fans think about him has absolutely nothing to do with his NHL career.

 

[CharlieGirl]

Didn't DeBoer have to make big expensive trades because they were hosting the Memorial Cup before he left? Unless you're referring to the Downie trade in 07.

The biggest trade in 08 was Mason. Sigh.

However, it's hard to cry for Spott when he left the team in worse shape than PD did.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

The biggest trade in 08 was Mason. Sigh.

However, it's hard to cry for Spott when he left the team in worse shape than PD did.

I know this is why I was saying you could hardly blame DeBoer they had to make sure the team was up to standard. You can make the case they might have won the OHL title anyways because Unice took over but still.

 

[CharlieGirl]

I know this is why I was saying you could hardly blame DeBoer they had to make sure the team was up to standard. You can make the case they might have won the OHL title anyways because Unice took over but still.

Yep - I think the Mason deal (regardless of how it worked out for Kitchener) was one PD had to make. It was costly (and those two players kicked the crap out of Kitchener until they graduated from the OHL).

 

[Otto]

Not only does a GM know when to buy but more importantly is having a GM knowing when to sell. For me that's been London's
major reason why they've been usually one of the favourites. Having multiple picks in rounds 2 to 5 is vital...

Sad thing is, there are a few Knights fans who don't realize this and continue to harp whenever a traded player has a good game for their new team.

 

[Mach85]

The biggest trade in 08 was Mason. Sigh.

However, it's hard to cry for Spott when he left the team in worse shape than PD did.

I know this is why I was saying you could hardly blame DeBoer they had to make sure the team was up to standard. You can make the case they might have won the OHL title anyways because Unice took over but still.

IMO one of the main differences is DeBoer could get the most out of players. He'd extract every bit of potential from most draft picks, and make claims like Clarkson that were prescient. He could then afford to buy more than average. Spott would just buy to make up for his mistakes and lack of ability to develop better than average, then kept doing it when the bill came due, until he skipped town.

 

[Ward Cornell]

Spott would just buy to make up for his mistakes and lack of ability to develop better than average, then kept doing it when the bill came due, until he skipped town.

But glad to see Spott landed safely on Deboers coattails again!

 

[Buttsy]

Or you dislike the coach for the condescending, socially awkward attitude, the aptitude for diving he coaches, and the filth of some former players/teams.

The way Kitchener fans think about him has absolutely nothing to do with his NHL career.

Lol.....good to know I always think it's unfair to judge solely on past behaviour.

 

[cujoflutie]

With respect to the Steve Mason deal; yes the player got hurt but it gave the Rangers insurance with a capable backup coming in. Without that deal the backup goalie is rookie Mavric Sparks.

Spott left the team in far worse position than PD did; two second round picks in the next six drafts.

I don’t want to tee off on Dale Hunter, he’s given plenty of things to dislike after his playing career ended. I will say that I’m shocked 3 games in, neither the Knights not the officials have given us anything to complain about. The Knights are playing the game just fine and the officials are calling it evenly and competently.

 

[Otto]

With respect to the Steve Mason deal; yes the player got hurt but it gave the Rangers insurance with a capable backup coming in. Without that deal the backup goalie is rookie Mavric Sparks.

Spott left the team in far worse position than PD did; two second round picks in the next six drafts.

I don’t want to tee off on Dale Hunter, he’s given plenty of things to dislike after his playing career ended. I will say that I’m shocked 3 games in, neither the Knights not the officials have given us anything to complain about. The Knights are playing the game just fine and the officials are calling it evenly and competently.

That's because Jones isn't playing

 

[Tim Raines]

Didn't DeBoer have to make big expensive trades because they were hosting the Memorial Cup before he left? Unless you're referring to the Downie trade in 07.

DeBoer was like Hunter in that he identified attainable players elsewhere whom he had a vision for in his line-up and then worked with them to make them a far better player than they were when he acquired them. See: Clarkson, O'Nabigon, Grennier for DeBoer and guys like Berisha for London.

The good coaches understand the individuality of players and what holes they can fill. The coaches we've had recently expect vanilla brain function and want their whole team to play the same way. It won't work.

 

[bobber]

DeBoer was like Hunter in that he identified attainable players elsewhere whom he had a vision for in his line-up and then worked with them to make them a far better player than they were when he acquired them. See: Clarkson, O'Nabigon, Grennier for DeBoer and guys like Berisha for London.

The good coaches understand the individuality of players and what holes they can fill. The coaches we've had recently expect vanilla brain function and want their whole team to play the same way. It won't work.

Character is an important factor in building a great team.

 

[bobber]

But glad to see Spott landed safely on Deboers coattails again!

A leopard can't change his Spotts. Bad joke. Okay I will go now.

 

[Ward Cornell]

That's because Jones isn't playing

Honestly if Jones was playing it may have turned the series in the Rangers favour if he had a "Lemieux moment".