KHL 2013-2014 General Discussion

[Ivan94]

And Non-Russian teams will be completely noncompetitive in the fight for the cup. Not as foreign teams now have big chances to win the cup, of course, but how you expect to beat Russian teams if they not only will be having best Russian players, but also best non-NHL foreign players?
Yes, prices on low level Russian KHLer's would go down, but simultaneously prices on foreign best players will go up. You are really sure that foreign teams would benefit from such situation? They still wouldn't be able afford best Russians and in same time pool of best foreign players would be much less, because of competitions from Russian teams. Think about that.

not the non-russian temas now. the non-russian teams will get financally more independent and will have higher budget. and with a real salary cap in the league many teams will be conpetitive.

I´m not talking about tommarow or the next 5 years. I am talking about future KHL in 20-30 years.

 

[alce*]

not the non-russian temas now. the non-russian teams will get financally more independent and will have higher budget. and with a real salary cap in the league many teams will be conpetitive.

I´m not talking about tommarow or the next 5 years. I am talking about future KHL in 20-30 years.

And I'm talking about tomorrow because I see absolutely no point in vain dreams. 20-30 years is gigantic time for any sport. Hell, all soviet ice hockey history was only 45 years. First championship - 1946, last - 1991.

So I'm talking about near future. Do you understand that lifting restriction on foreign players in KHL would make European teams less competitive in KHL?

 

[pakovits]

not the non-russian temas now. the non-russian teams will get financally more independent and will have higher budget. and with a real salary cap in the league many teams will be conpetitive.

I´m not talking about tommarow or the next 5 years. I am talking about future KHL in 20-30 years.

what makes you think any of that will happen? it's much more likely that some of the non-russian clubs will have to leave the league once the russians get sick of financing them and realise that these clubs aren't getting any closer to being self-sustaining.

 

[Hockeyfan31*]

what makes you think any of that will happen? it's much more likely that some of the non-russian clubs will have to leave the league once the russians get sick of financing them and realise that these clubs aren't getting any closer to being self-sustaining.

What makes you think that will happen? Because Pakovits thinks so?

 

[pakovits]

What makes you think that will happen? Because Pakovits thinks so?

lack of an economic base as well as a lack of interest in hockey. but if gazprom is willing to pay the bills so that the good people of zagreb can watch great hockey for the next 30-40 years, i'm all for that.

 

[FreshFruit]

lack of an economic base as well as a lack of interest in hockey. but if gazprom is willing to pay the bills so that the good people of zagreb can watch great hockey for the next 30-40 years, i'm all for that.

Gazprom will feed good people of Zagreb with high quality hockey only if there is gain for big G or Zagreb is in the grand scheme for the KHL in which Gazprom is one of the biggest shareholders.

Zagreb has a 3 year contract, after that it is a high probability that big G will shut the pipe if the Western expansion is going well, that is if the markets of Germany and Switzerland are incorporated in the KHL and are giving the sign of profit.

 

[Sokil]

can khl teams turn a profit or even break even? do any?

 

[malkinfan]

Lets talk about Karpov, slick forward for DM, next big star in KHL? He makes great plays and earns points in style with minimal ice time on DM. Developed fully from KHL/VHL system, no ties to NA.

 

[Atas2000]

Lets talk about Karpov, slick forward for DM, next big star in KHL? He makes great plays and earns points in style with minimal ice time on DM. Developed fully from KHL/VHL system, no ties to NA.

He's just an indication for Znarok's system. Top players go down, Dynamo struggles for a couple of games, then they implement Karpov and the system starts to click again. Karpov is agreat player, no doubt, but Znarok's Dynamo is just such a machine.

 

[Atas2000]

can khl teams turn a profit or even break even? do any?

Already throughly discussed here. DRg is profitable, Slovan I think too. There is no point in it at the time. And then half the NHL teams aren't profitable, so what?

 

[Atas2000]

ok and how have canada so many talants whitout a restriction and without having 21 teams in NHL?

The answer is the league is over a hundred years old. In a hundred years foreigner restrictions might be obsolete for the KHL too.

why russian players don´t play in non-russian teams?

Because Russians don't want to play elsewhere, just like Finns will want to play for Jokerit instead of some siberian city. Yes, that means you'd have to overpay for a russian player to lure him away. But the story about foreigner restrictions being a factor to contracts is an invention by some slick agents(Shumi Babaev the most prominent good for nothing interview bombs dropper), nothing more. The salaries of non-star players are small enough in the KHL.

the solution:

1. russia have to improve there young system and expand MHL to get something like CHL.

2. cancel the restriction

-> russian teams will sign foreigners
-> non-russian teams will sign russian players

The MHL is pretty much already there if we look at the SSS and WJC results recently.

Russian teams will sign more foreigners? Yes, some teams will sign some mediocre foreigners for less money to take the place of better russian players. The heavyweights won't sign significantly more foreigners because there aren't enough players talented enough on the market.

Non-russian teams will sign russian players? Why is that?

Bottom line: bad for russian players' development.

3. relocate teams from russia to european metropoles
_____________________________________________________

-> we get a league like NHL.
-> quality of league increase

Both conclusions are false. We won't get a league like the NHL. Stop comparing. The NHL started in an era when only canadians were playing hockey basically. The never needed the restrictions.

How will the quality of the league increase? Just because you think so?

Why do want to relocate russian teams? This is stupid. Yeah, let's relocate Jokerit to Krasnoyarsk. Good idea!

 

[billy piton]

And Non-Russian teams will be completely noncompetitive in the fight for the cup. Not as foreign teams now have big chances to win the cup, of course, but how you expect to beat Russian teams if they not only will be having best Russian players, but also best non-NHL foreign players?
Yes, prices on low level Russian KHLer's would go down, but simultaneously prices on foreign best players will go up. You are really sure that foreign teams would benefit from such situation? They still wouldn't be able afford best Russians and in same time pool of best foreign players would be much less, because of competitions from Russian teams. Think about that.

this. removing restrictions would completely destroy league's parity. it's just good as it is for everyone.

 

[Jussi]

Already throughly discussed here. DRg is profitable, Slovan I think too. There is no point in it at the time. And then half the NHL teams aren't profitable, so what?

The Latvian posters said that was only because they chose not to spend about 70K euro of their sponsorship money. Slovan also had those ridiculous ticket prices sold in auctions to help. IIRC from reading here, they aren't selling them at those prices right now. The combined losses of all the clubs last year was 500 million euros.

 

[FreshFruit]

Atas2000 question for you.
How do you think English Premier league would stand if they had foreign cap limits rule?

Before you say "well, you can't compare football with hockey" I'm mere asking my self how would you replenish all foreigners in English teams and fill them with players from English youth program without hitting the quality level.

You can even drive parallels with Italy that has non EU players limit regulations if you want to prove your statement.

 

[Faterson]

With teams like the Buffalo Sabres, New Jersey Devils (both still winless after half a dozen games), and even the Rangers, Flyers, Panthers and Oilers struggling mightily in the new NHL season, one needs to ask how they would fare in a direct contest against the best KHL teams. Something tells me, not too well. And would even a team like Neftekhimik utilise Yakupov's (and Omark's!) talents less efficiently than the Oilers do in making them healthy scratches or demoting them to the AHL?

 

[Jussi]

There's increased speculation in the Finnish media that Jukka Jalonen will take over Jokerit next season. Some have noted that SKA players know there will be a new coach next season for them and are "mailing it in" more frequently in games.

 

[Atas2000]

Atas2000 question for you.
How do you think English Premier league would stand if they had foreign cap limits rule?

Before you say "well, you can't compare football with hockey" I'm mere asking my self how would you replenish all foreigners in English teams and fill them with players from English youth program without hitting the quality level.

You can even drive parallels with Italy that has non EU players limit regulations if you want to prove your statement.

Tell me one thing. How many World Cups has England won with that shiny Preimier League? How many english players you'd call really elite?

It's a strange perception to me that a whatever league is more important or entertainable than top level international competition.

Parallels to Italy? Yeah, they have a great team every 4 years and a bunch of World Cups to show for it.

 

[Jussi]

Tell me one thing. How many World Cups has England won with that shiny Preimier League? How many english players you'd call really elite?

It's a strange perception to me that a whatever league is more important or entertainable than top level international competition.

Parallels to Italy? Yeah, they have a great team every 4 years and a bunch of World Cups to show for it.

Half of which came before WW2... Italy are just as likely to mail it in in World Cups/Euro tournaments.

 

[FreshFruit]

Tell me one thing. How many World Cups has England won with that shiny Preimier League? How many english players you'd call really elite?

Tell me, how many Olympic gold medals Russia has? How many russian players you'd call elite and how they tend to play in those big international games?

I understand Jussi. He thinks young finnish prospects should play in the NHL 'cause that's where the best coaches, facilities and players are, and that would give them more chance to improve thus improving the whole National team. Fair and logical thinking.

But in these 20 years of russians in NHL Russia as a National team is utter disgreace for Soviet legacy. Noone did expect that they will move on with Soviet domination but what they are presenting in past 20 years I think Tarasov and Arkadi Chernisev would be very disgraced.

So yes, I think it's a good thing that foreigners are leading most of the statistics in KHL, maybe it will wake russians from a bear dream where they are since the 90's.

 

[Jussi]

Tell me, how many Olympic gold medals Russia has? How many russian players you'd call elite and how they tend to play in those big international games?

I understand Jussi. He thinks young finnish prospects should play in the NHL 'cause that's where the best coaches, facilities and players are, and that would give them more chance to improve thus improving the whole National team. Fair and logical thinking.

But in these 20 years of russians in NHL Russia as a National team is utter disgreace for Soviet legacy. Noone did expect that they will move on with Soviet domination but what they are presenting in past 20 years I think Tarasov and Arkadi Chernisev would be very disgraced.

So yes, I think it's a good thing that foreigners are leading most of the statistics in KHL, maybe it will wake russians from a bear dream where they are since the 90's.

I think every non-Russian agrees with the opinion that Russia's success in international tournaments depends primarily on the coaching. If they have someone who can get all the players to play for the team and has the right system, they have a much bigger chance of winning. But that isn't really a topic for this thread nor section.

 

[Sokil]

With teams like the Buffalo Sabres, New Jersey Devils (both still winless after half a dozen games), and even the Rangers, Flyers, Panthers and Oilers struggling mightily in the new NHL season, one needs to ask how they would fare in a direct contest against the best KHL teams. Something tells me, not too well. And would even a team like Neftekhimik utilise Yakupov's (and Omark's!) talents less efficiently than the Oilers do in making them healthy scratches or demoting them to the AHL?

their goaltending alone would win them against any KHL team

 

[Atas2000]

their goaltending alone would win them against any KHL team

Which goaltending? I'd go with the guy from Novokuznetsk, coming from the franchise you all Russia haters want to see scrapped.

 

[Atas2000]

Tell me, how many Olympic gold medals Russia has? How many russian players you'd call elite and how they tend to play in those big international games?

I understand Jussi. He thinks young finnish prospects should play in the NHL 'cause that's where the best coaches, facilities and players are, and that would give them more chance to improve thus improving the whole National team. Fair and logical thinking.

But in these 20 years of russians in NHL Russia as a National team is utter disgreace for Soviet legacy. Noone did expect that they will move on with Soviet domination but what they are presenting in past 20 years I think Tarasov and Arkadi Chernisev would be very disgraced.

So yes, I think it's a good thing that foreigners are leading most of the statistics in KHL, maybe it will wake russians from a bear dream where they are since the 90's.

Russia has 8 olympic gold medals. You don't like the fact, I get it, but it is what it is. All soviet gold medals can be counted russian easily. It's the same country, the same system, well, 99% of the players were russian then. If you want to convince me that Russia has nothing to do with those medals, please try somewhere else. In fact Russians are now playing on many national teams. It's still a very popular game among Russians. If you are asking about elite players I'd ask the canadians to be the judge. Go ask them how many russian players they consider elite. Prepare to be dissapointed.

You probably have no idea what the 90s looked like in Russia. There is no surprise about the hole in players pipeline. Only some casual fans with no thorough idea about hockey and player development expected wins like always. It's a legacy of hard times which are now over, but the young players now are exactly the product of that times. Little wonder there is less talent to choose from.

By the way it's the West and the US we have to thank for the hardships of the 90s.

 

[Sokil]

With teams like the Buffalo Sabres, New Jersey Devils (both still winless after half a dozen games), and even the Rangers, Flyers, Panthers and Oilers struggling mightily

their goaltending alone would win them against any KHL team

Which goaltending? I'd go with the guy from Novokuznetsk, coming from the franchise you all Russia haters want to see scrapped.

None of Martin Brodeur, Ryan Miller, Henrik Lundqvist, Tim Thomas, or Steve Mason are from Novokuznetsk.

 

[Sokil]

By the way it's the West and the US we have to thank for the hardships of the 90s.

oh god here we go...