Keon, Horton and Broda to be added to Legends Row.

SEER

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Sep 21, 2015
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Just re-did one for Horton, too... (first one got muted.., awhile back..)

Tim Horton
Defense -- shoots R
Born Jan 12 1930 -- Cochrane, ONT
86 yrs. ago
Height 5.10 -- Weight 180

STATS:

1445 games.. 115 goals... 403 assists... 518 points.... +81
...and 4 Stanley Cups...

Getting It Done: Tim Horton Legends Row Tribute - NHL 1949-1974



...and I'll eventually get one done for Broda, too... : )
 

Mess

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It appears the Leafs currently have a practice of keeping honoured numbers out of circulation anyway, with JVR being the last to wear such a number. Why not just make it official if it'll make all the greats happy? You could make it part of the Leafs' centennial season celebration next year, converting an "honoured" number into a "retired" number every 2 weeks. You could convert them all in the span of one year that way, or at the very most two years.

You might run into the problem of asking whether Wendel Clark deserves to have his #17 retired. I say retire all current honoured players, and then raise standards for future players.

If you are good enough to make Legends Row and get a statue you should also have your # retired as part of that process. IMO

Leafs do have some hiccups with Dup #'s like Sittler and Frankie M both making #27 famous as Leafs as previously honoured numbers.

Perhaps you honour some numbers like Wendel but retire others like Keon.
 

Daisy Jane

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It appears the Leafs currently have a practice of keeping honoured numbers out of circulation anyway, with JVR being the last to wear such a number. Why not just make it official if it'll make all the greats happy? You could make it part of the Leafs' centennial season celebration next year, converting an "honoured" number into a "retired" number every 2 weeks. You could convert them all in the span of one year that way, or at the very most two years.

You might run into the problem of asking whether Wendel Clark deserves to have his #17 retired. I say retire all current honoured players, and then raise standards for future players.

see when everyone gets into this whole "the #s should be retired. I always wonder why and people generally go with "well everyone else does it."

i don't know if this sits with me. I like the concept that they were going with. Like special people get to wear special numbers. Or like. Mats made #13 special, YOU could wear #13 special. etc. And I think it also kinda boils down to this.

it's always about the crest. not the name on the back or the number. If the person died - show respect to the # and put it out of circulation what have you.

but I don't get this whole push of "It's the Crest on the Front - but hey! if they're good retire them because everyone else does." no. Pay your respects and show that these specific people did the crest well (I suppose) - but it's still not even about Name/Number. it's STILL about the leafs.

that's how i see it and why i'll never push for a full # retirement


I don't blame MLSE in the sense that it's not their direct obligation to educate fans, but you couldn't expect fans to go read up on books or Wikipedia to learn the Leafs' history. It's up to MLSE to be proactive and reach out to the fans and make history come to life.

Legends Row is a fantastic start. The next best thing they can do after that is set aside some space in the ACC for an exhibit covering players who a) couldn't make Legends Row because of room, and b) don't deserve a statue but still deserve a mention in Leafs' history. That way, you can cover players like Reg Noble, Babe Dye, Busher Jackson, Joe Primeau, Red Horner, Bill Barilko, Bob Baun, Allan Stanley, Carl Brewer and others.

The possibilities are infinite depending on how much space MLSE can set aside for such a project. I think it's especially beneficial for them to include Noble and Dye because the Leafs are the only team besides the Habs who can trace their history back to the founding of the NHL. Why wouldn't they take advantage of those extra years of history that no one else can?

the first off-season I became a leaf fan, i TOTALLY went to Wikipedia and googled up EVERYTHING. like. I learned about the pats, about Smythe, about Keon etc etc. (I really studied up on mats because if not for him and his overtime winner during the Ottawa sweep - I'd be a Sens fan.... (ew) )but that was on me.

There is a reason why people feel that Montreal does history SO well - because it's sooo respected/honoured. Detroit has a stall for Lindsey and he's there at times (they did that for Keon Saturday night). but like we never (used to) do that. it was like - "Push out Bower again, get the cheer, play the game."

and i truly have to wonder (again going back to my 19,000 x 5 x 1 being a real hard-core fan mathology) how many ppl REALLY know who bower is? (etc etc).

that's where MLSE could have a section on tehe website or something.
 

Leaf Lander

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Did they s ay it would be capped at 12? Why not Make it a full team. That way it would be a nice long stop, to take it all in.

I recall hearing it is going to go way pass 12.

Baby dye.
Harry Cameron.
Jack Adams
reg noble
King clancy
Charlie CONACHER
joe Primeau.
Busher Jackson
Georg hainsworth
Gordie DRILLON
red HORNER
harry Watson
Sweeney Schriner
hap day
Bob Pulford
Tod Sloan
Red Kelly
Dick duff
Frank Mahovalich
Carl Brewer
Bobby Baun
ALLAN STANLEY
JIMMY THOMPSON
RICK VAiVE.
WENDLE Clark
DOUG Gilmour
COÑN SMYTHE
HAP Day
Punch Imlach
Jim Gregory
Cliff fletcher
Pat burns
Pat quinn
 
Last edited:

Mess

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Conacher, Mahovlich, Kelly, Gilmour and Clark just some of the names brought up by this Leaf historian. I can't say I agree with Gilmour and Clark as slam dunks, and I don't think Kelly played here long enough, but we'll see.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs...y-more-legends-worthy-of-maple-leafs-row.html

Red Kelly won 4 Stanley Cups in the 1960's with the Leafs and he has already been honoured as his #4 jersey hangs in the ACC rafters among all the other honoured Leafs.

He seems like a logical choice for Legends Row to me. IMO
 

BayStreetBully

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Oct 25, 2007
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Red Kelly won 4 Stanley Cups in the 1960's with the Leafs and he has already been honoured as his #4 jersey hangs in the ACC rafters among all the other honoured Leafs.

He seems like a logical choice for Legends Row to me. IMO

Oh, I appreciate what he's done. And I know he has his own stall right now beside the current players, so on a practical level maybe it's hard to turn him down if you're management.

I just feel like you should play a minimum of around 10 years to be bronzed (though I would make an exception for the pioneers up to the 1930's). I think it would be a good way to encourage current and future players to stick with the team instead of going elsewhere like Gilmour and Cujo did. But if Kelly does get a statue, it's well deserved.

Speaking of Cujo, I wonder if he regrets leaving Toronto in 2002. Had he stayed another few years, I don't know if he'd be in the discussion for a statue, but I think he'd definitely have been honoured in the rafters. Being a Toronto local boy, I'd be kicking myself if I were him.
 

Mess

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Oh, I appreciate what he's done. And I know he has his own stall right now beside the current players, so on a practical level maybe it's hard to turn him down if you're management.

I just feel like you should play a minimum of around 10 years to be bronzed (though I would make an exception for the pioneers up to the 1930's). I think it would be a good way to encourage current and future players to stick with the team instead of going elsewhere like Gilmour and Cujo did. But if Kelly does get a statue, it's well deserved.

Speaking of Cujo, I wonder if he regrets leaving Toronto in 2002. Had he stayed another few years, I don't know if he'd be in the discussion for a statue, but I think he'd definitely have been honoured in the rafters. Being a Toronto local boy, I'd be kicking myself if I were him.

A minimum years service seems like a good criteria.

However then it depends if one believes Dougie Gilmour should get a statue as he is the Leafs All-time playoff scoring leader but wouldn't qualify if the years of service requirement wasn't met.

I agree that these statues should be for legends and not just impact players. The former Leafs that won cups seem like easier choices to appear in bronze for their accomplishments personally and part of the team success.
 

BayStreetBully

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A minimum years service seems like a good criteria.

However then it depends if one believes Dougie Gilmour should get a statue as he is the Leafs All-time playoff scoring leader but wouldn't qualify if the years of service requirement wasn't met.

I agree that these statues should be for legends and not just impact players. The former Leafs that won cups seem like easier choices to appear in bronze for their accomplishments personally and part of the team success.

That's actually a great point that I hadn't considered. I think you can balance an unofficial guideline requiring XX years of service with their actual accomplishments. Winning many cups should cure a shorter duration of service. I can agree that Kelly's 4 cups should outweigh his "shorter" duration with the Leafs.

Similarly, winning one cup counts for a lot if that is the only cup won in a long period of time. If Gilmour had won a cup with the type of season (regular AND playoffs) he had in '93, it would be hard to argue against him. And if Marner or Nylander single-handedly leads us to a cup and only plays here 7 or 8 years, he might be deserving too.
 

Mess

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That's actually a great point that I hadn't considered. I think you can balance an unofficial guideline requiring XX years of service with their actual accomplishments. Winning many cups should cure a shorter duration of service. I can agree that Kelly's 4 cups should outweigh his "shorter" duration with the Leafs.

Similarly, winning one cup counts for a lot if that is the only cup won in a long period of time. If Gilmour had won a cup with the type of season (regular AND playoffs) he had in '93, it would be hard to argue against him. And if Marner or Nylander single-handedly leads us to a cup and only plays here 7 or 8 years, he might be deserving too.

The most amazing thing about Kelly was that he won 4 Cups in Detroit and Norris trophy as best Dman before the Leafs acquired him in trade.

Upon his arrival he was immediately moved to centre on Leafs 2nd line and thrived as a forward helping the Leafs to 4 more Stanley Cups in the 1960's.

Its such an unusual turn of events in and of itself and who would think of something like this?

In modern times it would be like Leafs trading for Duncan Keith and his 3 past Cups and Norris from Chicago and immediately making him a top 6 centre on the Leafs team and them going on to win Cups by making that trade and move.
 

BayStreetBully

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Oct 25, 2007
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The most amazing thing about Kelly was that he won 4 Cups in Detroit and Norris trophy as best Dman before the Leafs acquired him in trade.

Upon his arrival he was immediately moved to centre on Leafs 2nd line and thrived as a forward helping the Leafs to 4 more Stanley Cups in the 1960's.

Its such an unusual turn of events in and of itself and who would think of something like this?

In modern times it would be like Leafs trading for Duncan Keith and his 3 past Cups and Norris from Chicago and immediately making him a top 6 centre on the Leafs team and them going on to win Cups by making that trade and move.

Then what about Allan Stanley? I don't know much about him because the Leafs never seem to honour him. He won 4 cups and was a HOFer and one of our core d-men. Comparing Stanley and Kelly purely on their accomplishments with the Leafs, does Kelly deserve it more than Stanley?
 

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