Prospect Info: Kaiden Guhle II

[Essenege]

There's a ton more failure than junior success like Bergeron...who also played a full year in the AHL at 19 during lockout. How many of the players in Montreal thrived after going to NHL so soon? People already forgot Mete getting that 15-18 min as a 19 year old just because he looked like he can survive?

It's as if Habs have some sort of high success rate with bringing in junior players. They literally almost always fail here...be it Latendresse, Galchenyuk, Kotkaniemi, Mete. Heck the Habs success rate with bringing 20 year old guys without few months of AHL time is also currently consisting of only Suzuki and Price in the last 20+years. Maybe Gallagher if you want to ignore the half year he spent in AHL.

Bolded is just your speculation. You can’t possibly know that. It’s just you assuming that a player who failed while playing as a teen, failed because of that, and would have succeeded with the junior path. Impossible to know.

 

[Essenege]

Because you take him out of a situation where he will be thriving and place him in a situation where he is surviving. Not only that, but the coaching staff will not be giving him powerplay minutes, and likely to rely on other for penalty killing, so you are removing him from two facets of the game that he could play in down the line and not allowing any development to happen in critical years.

In the NHL, he will rarely have the puck on his stick - in the WHL, he will constantly have the puck on his stick. He will be out there in every situation, he will be a leader, he will have an opportunity to play against elite talents most nights that he will be sheltered from in the NHL.

Patrice Bergeron is an exception, he's not the rule. What we are seeing from Guhle is encouraging but by no means is it dominant. If he was in pre-season and completely erasing NHL competition, creating offense on every shift and showing swagger and confidence, sure there might be a discussion. But, he's just playing well for where he is supposed to be at in his development.

Puck on stick, ice time and being relied upon in key situations are better conditions for development then being told to go out there and not get in trouble.

I agree with the advantages of playing junior hockey.

There are also major developmental advantages playing in the NHL. Faster play. Bigger guys. Top talent. If you’re up to to the task you can learn way more playing 15 minutes in the NHL vs 22 in juniors.

You have to be up to the task though. I don’t know that Guhle is.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

I'm okay with giving him a few NHL games at the start of the year (if Guhle earns it), but send him back to Junior before playing a 10th game. Let him have his full season in the WHL. Let him go to the WJC. And next year, he's either on your NHL line-up or your AHL line-up.

Not worth giving him a few reg season game since that will require us waiving one of Kulak or Wideman

 

[Essenege]

We learned from KK….. long term go back and develop. Especially having missed his 18 year season

So you know where KK would be as a player if he played the last 2 years in Europe vs lesser competition? I’d like to have your crystal ball.

 

[Vachon23]

Lol. Pietrangelo is better because Bogosian is a slow ass D and is just not that good.

Look:

Ryan O’reilly was picked just after Landon Ferraro. O’reilly made the NHL at 18, Ferraro returned to the juniors. Now O’reilly is better then Ferraro so NHL is so much better for development.

Deeply flawed logic. All I’m saying is there are advantages to having tougher competition in the NHL. There are also advantages to playing in juniors.

There isn’t « one rule »

I do agree that Pietrangelo would have been better no matter what, the point was more that Bogosian would probably have benefit to play one more year in JNR to work on his flaws

 

[koivu2k1]

I like this kid, give him the C already

 

[jiboy]

For a player like him who defensively can hold his own in the NHL but needs to work on his puck skills and vision , going back to juniors is a must

Its cool that he looks good and all but just let him play in juniors with more time to make plays and develop his offense please

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Lol. Pietrangelo is better because Bogosian is a slow ass D and is just not that good.

Look:

Ryan O’reilly was picked just after Landon Ferraro. O’reilly made the NHL at 18, Ferraro returned to the juniors. Now O’reilly is better then Ferraro so NHL is so much better for development.

Deeply flawed logic. All I’m saying is there are advantages to having tougher competition in the NHL. There are also advantages to playing in juniors.

There isn’t « one rule »

While I generally agree with your overall take on this subject of development it does need to be pointed out that Bogosian was one of the greatest athletes to ever come out of the draft. He was huge, strong as an ox with a bomb of a shot and ridiculously fast. He was just very raw and that never really changed. He has a low hockey IQ and just doesn't process information fast enough for the NHL game. His draft position was entirely based on the fact that he was the best athlete in the draft and his ceiling was thought to be potentially higher than either Doughty or Pietrangelo but his floor was considerably lower. Atlanta bet on his potential and clearly lost.

There are plenty of "Bogo" stories from ex teammates about his freakish athleticism including Bag skates (I believe with Bylsma) where players were expected to try to keep up with him or else.....

As far as Guhle is concerned, I want him back in the WHL regardless of how this camp plays out. I hate seeing teams waste cheap entry level years on players that they coddle and don't trust. Let him continue to develop without burning an ELC year and revisit the idea next year when he is more likely to be more of a bargain and more importantly will likely be an enormous bargain in years 2 and 3 of the deal when our other youngsters are being paid much more than they are currently earning. He can potentially fill Chiarot's spot next season and I would support giving him 9 games this season so that he has more of an idea of what to expect when that time comes.

 

[Wats]

Bolded is just your speculation. You can’t possibly know that. It’s just you assuming that a player who failed while playing as a teen, failed because of that, and would have succeeded with the junior path. Impossible to know.

I'm replying to someone suggesting someone good enough to make it as a teen will succeed (ie Bergeron) just as likely as failing. There is so many examples on Montreal alone of there being more failures than successes...even if we include the surefire lottery picks like McDavid/Matthews/Crosby/etc to make it more even.

Also your argument is kinda just pointing at the obvious. Like obviously we also don't know whether Suzuki for example would have failed if me made Montreal at 19. We don't know if Gallagher would have failed if he made Montreal at 19. However what we do know is it's actually very hard/rare for prospects to make NHL, especially as a teen non-lottery pick. Prospects who play well enough to bypass AHL to make NHL at 18/19/20 are not having long successful careers in Montreal. We can say it's case by case or whatever, but that's the fact. Prospects are for some reason impressing enough to look like legit core players as rookie teen/20 year olds but then failing in Montreal. Something is wrong.

 

[Gainesvillain]

He’s the re-incarnation of Shea Weber. Beautiful.

I think it was overlords in the GDT yesterday christened him "Kid Montagne". Love that moniker.

 

[Goalfield22]

Guhle will replace Chiarot next year.

 

[MTL Dirty Birdy]

So you know where KK would be as a player if he played the last 2 years in Europe vs lesser competition? I’d like to have your crystal ball.

The secret to Detroit’s development where they made the playoffs for over 20 years straight ? PATIENCE. They went on cup runs with a team full of late round picks because they développés them over time. Scotty bowmans judgement is my crystal ball. Cheers

 

[26Mats]

Guhle will replace Chiarot next year.

Edmundson
Guhle
Romanov

on the left. But if Weber doesn't come back, Chiarot may play the right.

 

[Goalfield22]

Edmundson
Guhle
Romanov

on the left. But if Weber doesn't come back, Chiarot may play the right.

Chiarot will likely be too expensive, my Lord.

 

[CAUFIELD]

Edmundson
Guhle
Romanov

on the left. But if Weber doesn't come back, Chiarot may play the right.

LD are indeed those guys next year I think.

RD are Petry and Savard . We should keep a spot for our next good prospect to play next year ; Norlinder, Harris or maybe Struble.

we will also save money to pay other important players (Suzuki)


So very early Pairings:
Romanov-Petry
Ghule-Savard
Edmondson-Norlinder

 

[Tyson]

The absolute best thing is letting stick around through camp around NHLers and then send him back to juniors. Another year of development is a must, even the first overall pick is headed back to college.

 

[domiwroze]

Chiarot will likely be too expensive, my Lord.

Chiarot loves me, he'll sign for 2M

 

[Goalfield22]

Chiarot loves me, he'll sign for 2M

If that happens, I will love you long time too.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Guhle was solid but not nhl ready. He needs to return to the dub and work on his offense and puckmoving ability. He will be an excellent shutdown dman but has offensive potential that needs to be nurtured.

 

[26Mats]

Chiarot will likely be too expensive, my Lord.

Yes, he likely will. But we'll see.

 

[HabsForHire]

So you know where KK would be as a player if he played the last 2 years in Europe vs lesser competition? I’d like to have your crystal ball.

It definitely wouldn't have hurt him, he was rushed plain and simple

 

[Colezuki]

Yes, he likely will. But we'll see.

Chariots/kulaks/ Alzheimer’s saving money is going to Suzuki and Romanov you can see it coming from a mile away

it does pose an interesting question though around do you trade chariot at the deadline for a 1st if guhle is ready to make the jump and the teams out of it

 

[Adam Michaels]

Not worth giving him a few reg season game since that will require us waiving one of Kulak or Wideman

No need to waive either of them. They can send Niku on waivers to be sent to Laval. Then, for a few games, they can carry 8D with Guhle. And then they send him back to Junior. But as I mentioned in my post you quoted, only if Guhle earns it.

 

[Habs Halifax]

What are the chances that Guhle goes back to the CHL and also plays WJC. Then we consider calling him up in January sometime? Keep his games under 40 where his RFA years are not triggered until next season. He would play a fair amount of CHL/WJC games from now till mid January.

 

[Tyson]

Please keep him until the end of camp and then send him back to juniors