Prospect Info: Kaiden Guhle II

[Hins77]

Wings fan, here. My wife is a Habs fan and so I get to see a lot of the Canadiens games. Really think Guhle is going to be amazing for you guys. He's right on the cusp of being an NHL regular. Would love to see him get a few games to start the year before they decide whether he stays or goes, but I'm actually torn as to whether he should go back to junior or not. To me, I think he has to show that he's not ready versus what he has already shown, which is that I think he is ready to stick. He'll be protected on the third pair, as far as consistent matchups and getting the right amount of minutes, so that's not the issue. And he's shown that he can play against NHL players, as far as his strength and positioning. So I think he's going to make a very good case to stick with the club. And in a year with no Weber, I think it gives some serious depth to the defense that will be needed, this year. The only question mark for me, is if he is ready for the 82 game schedule or not. If his conditioning looks like it might not be good enough (after Training Camp and a few NHL games) then I would send him back to junior. Otherwise, I think he has shown that he can think/play at the NHL level.

He is really close from the NHL in terms of defensive play. He is safe, play physiciall, make good hit, he is alreafy a good stay at home dmAn, but I would like more from him offensively. The resson why i would let him destroying the junior and came back with bigger confidence in his offensive skills

 

[Essenege]

Pretty sure Bergeron would have been a stud even if he stayed in the Q

For sure. Is he a .9 PPG player at 20 y/o in that case? Doubtful.

Anyway, my point is just that the « faster development path » is highly, highly subjective and varies from player to player.

To come back to Guhle’s case, that means I would just stick to some observable data which would be : Is he one of our top 6D right now. He probably isn’t but if he is, he should get at least a 9 game tryout.

 

[tazsub3]

Not his fault but every time i think of ghule, it hurts (my father died few minutes after the pick on oct 6th and i learned while watching the draft) hope he becomes a great player to in a few years i can remember at least something partially joyful from that day.
My dad being a big fan, would not want it any other way....

 

[Vachon23]

For sure. Is he a .9 PPG player at 20 y/o in that case? Doubtful.

Anyway, my point is just that the « faster development path » is highly, highly subjective and varies from player to player.

To come back to Guhle’s case, that means I would just stick to some observable data which would be : Is he one of our top 6D right now. He probably isn’t but if he is, he should get at least a 9 game tryout.

In Guhle case, if goes JNR he will be his team captain and #1 Defensemen and he will probably be Team Canada captain with a big role on the team. That's precious experience that is more valuable for a 19 yrs old kid that played only 10 games last year, then playing 13 minutes by game on a 3rd pair. Let him develop himself as a top pair D and gaining confidence.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Not his fault but every time i think of ghule, it hurts (my father died few minutes after the pick on oct 6th and i learned while watching the draft) hope he becomes a great player to in a few years i can remember at least something partially joyful from that day.
My dad being a big fan, would not want it any other way....

Man that is really sad to hear. I hope Guhle becomes a star and reinforces the positive memories of your father!

 

[HabsForHire]

I want guhle in the ahl or back to juniors. Not that hes isn't playing well, im just soooo over rushed prospects

 

[WeThreeKings]

I can list 10 thousand reasons why Guhle shouldn't be on the team this year, even if he could keep up..

But I might as well just point to Kotkaniemi, who had a really strong 18 year old season and his development suffered from it because the focus was on surviving and not thriving.

 

[Goalfield22]

Mark my words, Guhle's name will be spoken in the same breath as Suzuki and Caufield real soon.

 

[Vachon23]

I can list 10 thousand reasons why Guhle shouldn't be on the team this year, even if he could keep up..

But I might as well just point to Kotkaniemi, who had a really strong 18 year old season and his development suffered from it because the focus was on surviving and not thriving.

An other exemple to point out is Thomas Chabot. I always like him a lot so I follow his progression and in 2016 (same situation that Guhle is now) he was a beast at the Sens camp and they even give him a game but they decide to send him back in JNR even if he was to good for JNR and he absolutely crush the league and the WJC. I know that Guhle/Chabot doesn't have the same style of game but I'm sure it will be benefit for Guhle to continue developing himself as a top pair D with the minutes he will play in JNR next year.

 

[Adam Michaels]

I'm okay with giving him a few NHL games at the start of the year (if Guhle earns it), but send him back to Junior before playing a 10th game. Let him have his full season in the WHL. Let him go to the WJC. And next year, he's either on your NHL line-up or your AHL line-up.

 

[Essenege]

I can list 10 thousand reasons why Guhle shouldn't be on the team this year, even if he could keep up..

But I might as well just point to Kotkaniemi, who had a really strong 18 year old season and his development suffered from it because the focus was on surviving and not thriving.

For every Kotkaniemi there’s a Patrice Bergeron. If he stays he has to play no matter what though. That’s why I think they send him down regardless. We’re in a « win now » mode so they won’t risk it.

The other point is that you want your asset « cost controlled » as long as possible.

Development wise I don’t see the problem of playing him 15 minutes a night on bottom pairing, against NHLer

 

[Mandala]

I think it is a case by case situation. For Guhle he is physicaly ready and plays the position well. When you send a player back to junior, you want him to continue developing physicaly or learn to play within a system.

 

[Wats]

I think it is a case by case situation. For Guhle he is physicaly ready and plays the position well. When you send a player back to junior, you want him to continue developing physicaly or learn to play within a system.

Or learn to play with the puck more. He will never get that in NHL (see Romanov).

 

[Wats]

For every Kotkaniemi there’s a Patrice Bergeron. If he stays he has to play no matter what though. That’s why I think they send him down regardless. We’re in a « win now » mode so they won’t risk it.

The other point is that you want your asset « cost controlled » as long as possible.

Development wise I don’t see the problem of playing him 15 minutes a night on bottom pairing, against NHLer

There's a ton more failure than junior success like Bergeron...who also played a full year in the AHL at 19 during lockout. How many of the players in Montreal thrived after going to NHL so soon? People already forgot Mete getting that 15-18 min as a 19 year old just because he looked like he can survive?

It's as if Habs have some sort of high success rate with bringing in junior players. They literally almost always fail here...be it Latendresse, Galchenyuk, Kotkaniemi, Mete. Heck the Habs success rate with bringing 20 year old guys without few months of AHL time is also currently consisting of only Suzuki and Price in the last 20+years. Maybe Gallagher if you want to ignore the half year he spent in AHL.

 

[WeThreeKings]

For every Kotkaniemi there’s a Patrice Bergeron. If he stays he has to play no matter what though. That’s why I think they send him down regardless. We’re in a « win now » mode so they won’t risk it.

The other point is that you want your asset « cost controlled » as long as possible.

Development wise I don’t see the problem of playing him 15 minutes a night on bottom pairing, against NHLer

Because you take him out of a situation where he will be thriving and place him in a situation where he is surviving. Not only that, but the coaching staff will not be giving him powerplay minutes, and likely to rely on other for penalty killing, so you are removing him from two facets of the game that he could play in down the line and not allowing any development to happen in critical years.

In the NHL, he will rarely have the puck on his stick - in the WHL, he will constantly have the puck on his stick. He will be out there in every situation, he will be a leader, he will have an opportunity to play against elite talents most nights that he will be sheltered from in the NHL.

Patrice Bergeron is an exception, he's not the rule. What we are seeing from Guhle is encouraging but by no means is it dominant. If he was in pre-season and completely erasing NHL competition, creating offense on every shift and showing swagger and confidence, sure there might be a discussion. But, he's just playing well for where he is supposed to be at in his development.

Puck on stick, ice time and being relied upon in key situations are better conditions for development then being told to go out there and not get in trouble.

 

[Vachon23]

I think it is a case by case situation. For Guhle he is physicaly ready and plays the position well. When you send a player back to junior, you want him to continue developing physicaly or learn to play within a system.

You can learn to gain more confidence with puck, work on his play on the PP to be an even more complete player.

 

[Vachon23]

For every Kotkaniemi there’s a Patrice Bergeron. If he stays he has to play no matter what though. That’s why I think they send him down regardless. We’re in a « win now » mode so they won’t risk it.

The other point is that you want your asset « cost controlled » as long as possible.

Development wise I don’t see the problem of playing him 15 minutes a night on bottom pairing, against NHLer

Look at Zach Bogosian and Alex Pietrangelo who where drafted respectively 3oa and 4oa in 2008. Both where Big body D who could play in the NHL. Atlanta decide to keep Bogosian and STL decide to let Pietrangelo in the JNR after a 9 game stint in Draft year + 1 so he could work on his flaws and he dominate the league and the WJC. Look now who is better

 

[NeptunesTrident]

Send him back to PA. He gets more time to develop his offense. He will likely wear the C at the WJC. If PA has an off year he could be moved to a contender to further his development.

 

[Vachon23]

Send him back to PA. He gets more time to develop his offense. He will likely wear the C at the WJC. If PA has an off year he could be moved to a contender to further his development.

I was asking my self that question if PA was a contender this year. With Guhle and Wiesblatt they are probably not bad. If they are bad, contender team will lineup to get him and they will receive a high price

 

[Adam Michaels]

Look at Zach Bogosian and Alex Pietrangelo who where drafted respectively 3oa and 4oa in 2008. Both where Big body D who could play in the NHL. Atlanta decide to keep Bogosian and STL decide to let Pietrangelo in the JNR after a 9 game stint in Draft year + 1 so he could work on his flaws and he dominate the league and the WJC. Look now who is better

Don't knock Bogosian. Without him, Anderson doesn't blow by in Game 1 to score the first goal of the series. And without Bogosian, KK doesn't score the OT winner in Game 6 as the puck deflected off him to go in. How dare you try to sully the good name of Bogosian, who helped the Habs more than he did the Leafs.

 

[MTL Dirty Birdy]

HAHAHA

aim higher man haha. Hal Gill couldn’t skate. Try Jay Bouwmeester or Colton Parayko

 

[JoelWarlord]

Guhle looks great already and he is absolutely NHL-ready, but I don't think he looks so utterly dominant that you have to keep him up. That could definitely still change over the preseason and he has the physical tools to be a really effective player already, so if he ends up playing his way into a legitimate top 4 role I wouldn't hate it if he stayed up, but right now you'd probably pencil him in as the #5 so it's tough.

Sucks he can't go to the AHL, but since he can't I think WHL is the best place for him this year (9 game cup of coffee then WHL would be fine ). I just think ultimately with the injuries/covid schedule last year you want him to be a 26 minute a night dominant #1 and develop his puck skills in junior rather than be relying on physicality and trying to stay afloat in the NHL playing 15-18 minutes a night and trying not to make mistakes.

Ultimately I just think he's shown enough skill that you need to commit to trying to get as much offensive ability out of him. If he hadn't shown any flashes of offensive ability and his value was going to be purely defensive then I'd be more open to him staying up as a 3rd pair D this year, but I think you risk abandoning those offensive tools before you really know what you have if you just bring him up right now.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

I can list 10 thousand reasons why Guhle shouldn't be on the team this year, even if he could keep up..

But I might as well just point to Kotkaniemi, who had a really strong 18 year old season and his development suffered from it because the focus was on surviving and not thriving.

Let the kid play out his junior year and go to the WJC. I agree. If the organization keeps him around they’ve learnt nothing.

 

[MTL Dirty Birdy]

If you can give him a top 6 spot and he helps the team, I don’t see how we would « ruin his development ». This varies from one player to the other. Some players might be helped by increasing the level of competition. If we think he’s better then Kulak or Wideman and he helps the team win, go for it, at least a 9 game tryout.

We learned from KK….. long term go back and develop. Especially having missed his 18 year season

 

[Essenege]

Look at Zach Bogosian and Alex Pietrangelo who where drafted respectively 3oa and 4oa in 2008. Both where Big body D who could play in the NHL. Atlanta decide to keep Bogosian and STL decide to let Pietrangelo in the JNR after a 9 game stint in Draft year + 1 so he could work on his flaws and he dominate the league and the WJC. Look now who is better

Lol. Pietrangelo is better because Bogosian is a slow ass D and is just not that good.

Look:

Ryan O’reilly was picked just after Landon Ferraro. O’reilly made the NHL at 18, Ferraro returned to the juniors. Now O’reilly is better then Ferraro so NHL is so much better for development.

Deeply flawed logic. All I’m saying is there are advantages to having tougher competition in the NHL. There are also advantages to playing in juniors.

There isn’t « one rule »