TSN Radio Kadri odd man out?

[WildWolfdog]

He's nothing without Marner, the only way he has the points over the last two years is that Matthews went down and Kadri padded his stats. It's a toss up who makes the most bone headed decisions nightly Kadri or Gardiner.

Thanks for the heads up - put you on ignore instead of wasting time reading any more hot takes!

 

[Stamkos4life]

He's nothing without Marner, the only way he has the points over the last two years is that Matthews went down and Kadri padded his stats. It's a toss up who makes the most bone headed decisions nightly Kadri or Gardiner.

Wow what a fiery hot take!

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Right. Better players. Captains.

Well that and the state of the team when Gilmour was dealt and the franchise wanted to trade Sundin was that of a team on the downswing.

Clark’s situation was closer, but he was also coming off an anomaly season and the Nordiques overpaid for his services by giving up a young budding #1C. Kadri has been consistent over the past two seasons and unless a team is going to overpay for him, he shouldn’t be dealt.

 

[Pookie]

Well that and the state of the team when Gilmour was dealt and the franchise wanted to trade Sundin was that of a team on the downswing.

Clark’s situation was closer, but he was also coming off an anomaly season and the Nordiques overpaid for his services by giving up a young budding #1C. Kadri has been consistent over the past two seasons and unless a team is going to overpay for him, he shouldn’t be dealt.

If you had to make a choice between Kadri or Nylander, who would you rather have over the next 5 years?

 

[The Man with a Plan]

If you had to make a choice between Kadri or Nylander, who would you rather have over the next 5 years?

I'd keep Kadri and that center depth that few teams can match.

But with some shrewd moves...we can keep them both. Gards can even stay after Patty is moved or put on vacation.

 

[Pookie]

I'd keep Kadri and that center depth that few teams can match.

But with some shrewd moves...we can keep them both. Gards can even stay after Patty is moved or put on vacation.

If it came down to it, you’d rather Kadri for 5 years to age 33 vs Nylander to age 27?

 

[4thline]

Looks like today the Wheel of Nonsensical Reasons to Get Kadri Out of Town gave us a two for one special, a truism and a false dilemma!

Tune in next week to see what the wheel brings

 

[The Assclown]

Who is better suited in a defensive role? Par Lindholm or Kadri? Why not slide Kadri to Matthews wing when he comes back?

 

[4thline]

I've talked about my philosophy on forwards before. I think you can fit forwards into four categories:

Elite - Can drive play in their teams favor.
Contributors - Can significantly contribute, improve, and strengthen a line, but can't drive it.
Dependents - Can play on a decent line and do a job on it, but is completely dependent on linemates for success.
Specialists - Can't really do much other than spot duty, preferably on the fourth line.

I believe in diminishing returns on lines. The best player matters the most, the lesser ones matter less. It's rare to get a strong line without an elite play driver, but they can get isolated if not playing with someone of their ilk or at least a solid contributor. The base line for a line would be Elite - Contributor - Dependent. Better than that, and you have a really good line. Worse than that, and it's not going to be a strength for you. This is obviously a general guideline, not a hard rule.

Now apply that to our roster. Example lineup:

Marleau - Matthews - Nylander
Hyman - Tavares - Marner
Kapanen - Kadri - Brown
Leivo - Lindholm - Gauthier
Johnsson, Ennis

If I'm a bit cautious to not over-correct due to the start of the season, this is how I see our lineup:

D - E - E
D - E - E
C - E - D
D - D - S
D, D

This illustrates why I'm so loathe to trade one of our great forwards. I expected one of Kapanen, Leivo, or Johnsson to take a step forward, but even with that happening, we basically have three pairings of forwards that can combine for a strong line. I don't see a forward group that is dominant on paper, and can afford moving players. I see one that is balanced just so with just enough good forwards to create three dangerous lines. Move any one of those pieces, and we'll likely revert to a two line team, and have a big talent under-utilized due to his linemates.

Bottom line: We really, really shouldn't want to move Kadri or Nylander. We need to strengthen our right side on defense, but we can't do it at the cost of both one of our better players and by becoming a two line team. In any such trade, we'd need a sufficiently good forward coming back as a replacement, which limits the value we have left to target a good d-man.

Missed this somehow, great post.

This is how I broke things down on the 10th of October: (I'm now on the fence about downgrading Marleau)

"Our forward core (sans Nylander) has three stars (Matthews/Tavares/Marner), 2 x solid secondary talents (+1 more emerging) (Kadri/Marleau/Kap), 2x good top 9 support players (Hyman/Brown), and 5x depth/ cheap filler (Johnsson/Leivo/Ennis/Lindholm/Gauthier).

On defence
1x star (rielly)
1x solid secondary talent (gardiner)
3x good support (Dermott/Zaits/Hainsey)
2x Cheap depth (oz/ mm)"

One area my opinion differs is with regards to your C/my solid secondary. IMO E+C+D (with the right mix) can be a damn effective high end line, and C+C+D (also right mix) can hold their own against high end lines. As long as we have high effort and defensively competent players at the C and D offensive talent level those E's can be force multipliers. It's why I'm on board (though not necessarily in favour of) trading Nylander for a C level defender + C level winger.

With Nylander sitting out we can currently ice (I really like our current top two lines)

D-E-E (Hyman-JT-MM)
F-E-D (whoever-Matthews-Brown)
D-C-C (Marleau-Kadri-Kap)

Replace that F beside Matthews with a C and we've got a dominant group.

Biggest problem with moving Kadri for cap savings is that with a D level centre in his place that line loses their ability to punch above their weight, and as you said, we become a two line team.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

If you had to make a choice between Kadri or Nylander, who would you rather have over the next 5 years?

Kadri.

 

[Pookie]

Kadri.

It’s ok. Years ago people would have said Bozak too.

 

[The Man with a Plan]

If it came down to it, you’d rather Kadri for 5 years to age 33 vs Nylander to age 27?

No I'd rather see Patty moved and keep both. Failing that I'd keep Kadri and deal Willie for a young stud d.

The value of having Kadri running the 3rd line and playing shutdown is vastly underrated here. His production from the 3rd line has been instrumental.

 

[member 300185]

Dreger is a POS, gossiping old hag. He is more useless than Eklund. Now that his meal ticket has moved on, he is sitting at the kiddy table looking for any scraps he can find.

USELESS!!

 

[57 Years No Cup]

It’s ok. Years ago people would have said Bozak too.

Kadri's the type of player with heart and talent that wins Cups. Willie's a regular season me first floater.

 

[rent free]

Dreger is a POS, gossiping old hag. He is more useless than Eklund. Now that his meal ticket has moved on, he is sitting at the kiddy table looking for any scraps he can find.

USELESS!!

c'mon now don't raise that blood pressure now grandpa

 

[stickty111]

45 points - your math is off, the above post is correct.

So funny how some people were worried about his lack of production when we were what, less than 10 games into the season. Kadri's a beauty, wish we had a few more like him.

He is on a 56 point pace guys

If the right return comes up for Kadri he is as good as gone-only a few untouchables on this team and I don't believe Kadri is in that select group. I hope he improves on his sub-par skating skills and scores a ton of goals for the team, but he can't afford to float around like he does on some nights. He has to lead every night if he is, in fact, the "heart & soul of this team"

Matthews also floats around sometimes. Same with Crosby. Every player wont be 100% effort

 

[Gallagbi]

If it came down to it, you’d rather Kadri for 5 years to age 33 vs Nylander to age 27?

A lot would depend on cap hit and the return for each player, no? Nylander's the better player, but not the better value at certain numbers.

 

[Gary Nylund]

If the right return comes up for Kadri he is as good as gone-only a few untouchables on this team and I don't believe Kadri is in that select group. I hope he improves on his sub-par skating skills and scores a ton of goals for the team, but he can't afford to float around like he does on some nights. He has to lead every night if he is, in fact, the "heart & soul of this team"

LOL.

He's nothing without Marner, the only way he has the points over the last two years is that Matthews went down and Kadri padded his stats. It's a toss up who makes the most bone headed decisions nightly Kadri or Gardiner.

LOL.

He is on a 56 point pace guys

Matthews also floats around sometimes. Same with Crosby. Every player wont be 100% effort

Yup, I was agreeing with the poster who said that.

 

[CelticDruid]

LOL.



LOL.



Yup, I was agreeing with the poster who said that.

Just meant that no one is untouchable! Out of a select group and Kadri is not in that group.

 

[stickty111]

LOL.



LOL.



Yup, I was agreeing with the poster who said that.

Oh okay. Maybe I didnt read properly.

 

[rent free]

Oh okay. Maybe I didnt read properly.

clearly you didn't

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

If you had to make a choice between Kadri or Nylander, who would you rather have over the next 5 years?

Nylander obviously because of age. But why do the Leafs have to make a choice. It's like saying the Bruins have make a choice between Marchand and Pasta.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

It makes sense if you play nylander as the 3rd line center and depending on what you get back for Kadri. But it doesn't make sense to trade guys on sweetheart deals when you will have the big number guys like Matthews, Tavares, Marner... and Nylander? taking up a big chunk of the cap.

Bottom line is that paying Nylander too much money sets a bad precedent in the organization. Especially when guys like Rielly, and Kadri took low numbers (even at the time). His play hasn't even earned the numbers he allegedly wants. He doesn't even have to place faith in the organization to surround him with good players. They're already there. For some reason I doubt they're low balling him by a huge number.

 

[Pookie]

Kadri's the type of player with heart and talent that wins Cups. Willie's a regular season me first floater.

Last two playoffs:

Nylander 2G 6A 8 points +1
Kadri 1G 3A 4 points 0

Your memory may be faulty mate.

 

[Pookie]

Nylander obviously because of age. But why do the Leafs have to make a choice. It's like saying the Bruins have make a choice between Marchand and Pasta.

Probably because they can’t afford Nylander at market rates.