Post-Game Talk: JUMP TO THE PUMP: Jets have gas in 5-2 win over Sabres

[KingBogo]

I thought Noel moved Buff to defense

Noel did, but Maurice left him there for awhile until he reigned in the roving a bit. It was under Maurice that Buff hit his true stride as a dominant player IMO. I forget who said it, but I remember a quote early in Jets 2.0 and the person was asked what system they played in Atlanta, (and paraphrasing) the comeback was, everyone watched what Buff did and tried to adapt on the fly.

 

[Jack7222]

Those 2 coaches just happen to currently be coaching the top 2 teams points % wise in the NHL. How good do you think those 2 teams really are if they are leaving stuff on the table with their current coaches? That's like really, really good.

Like... record breaking top-of-league December 2023 Winnipeg Jets level good?

 

[surixon]

The bolded is dependent on having more than 3 top line players on a team - but yes, it probably happens frequently on strong teams.

If Jets could put together a 2nd line that would be effective with Ehlers there it would be OK. More so if they also balanced out the TOI a little.

I'm still not sold on Monahan at 2C. His FO ability is appreciated but he still has just 1 assist. That suggests to me that he is not using his wingers very well, though it may be that his wingers have been the problem.

Prior to getting Money, I was hoping that KC would be put with Names and Perfetti when he came back. ESV was really working well and I thought (still do) that Names and Perf needed a finisher. It also might work with Monahan at 2C but it is a little less obvious to me.

Right now, with Vilardi injured again CSE worked very well for a short time. Make up a 2nd line of Nino - Money - Perfetti. Take advantage of Perfetti's playmaking. 3rd line of Barron - Lowry - Namestnikov. Or swap Names and Perf. 4th line of the other guys. BLN can still check and they might even score a bit more.

I don't care how it sorts out either, as long as it sorts out. Continually dumping on Ehlers is not being sorted out.

I agree on Monahan. We are starting to see a bit of his limitations 5 on 5. He doesn't generate much offense on his own. What he's very good at is playing that bumper spot on the PP. His line has three 5 on 5 goals in the past 6 games and two of those goals were off of solo efforts by Fly.

I worry about some of our scoring in the playoffs when the refs put away their whistles. We need more from that group in es situations.

 

[Flair Hay]

@Dale53130 spent way more time than I'd be willing to in order to show that managing Ehlers minutes correlates with better performance

That should end the discussion unless anyone can refute it with something better than "well, yeah but the Jets must have been winning those games"...

If that's your take, go back and look at the game logs like he did and prove it

I gave Dale kudos for his post as well. And it is more nuanced than that.

It doesn't end discussion about the situation at all, it's a great point to take into consideration when building an optimal lineup.

Let Connor Scheif and Vilardi cook on the PP.

Let Ehlers Scheifele cook 5 on 5.

Balance the minutes out for all the lines.

The team has been so much better for it in the past, and likely will be in the future if we do this.

 

[Jets 31]

I agree on Monahan. We are starting to see a bit of his limitations 5 on 5. He doesn't generate much offense on his own. What he's very good at is playing that bumper spot on the PP. His line has three 5 on 5 goals in the past 6 games and two of those goals were off of solo efforts by Fly.

I worry about some of our scoring in the playoffs when the refs put away their whistles. We need more from that group in es situations.

I don't know i have really liked what I've seen from Monahan so far, he's not getting many assists but he's definitely putting the puck in the net. 6 goals and 1 assist for 7 points in only 10 games with us is pretty good. Someone has to put the puck in the net and he's doing exactly that .

 

[Cotton Eye Joe]

62 oops

Thought you were implying we should go get Jagr, lol.

 

[Atoyot]

I don't know i have really liked what I've seen from Monahan so far, he's not getting many assists but he's definitely putting the puck in the net. 6 goals and 1 assist for 7 points in only 10 games with us is pretty good. Someone has to put the puck in the net and he's doing exactly that .

*8 goals and 1 assist in 12 games.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

My point was that since you were so anti-Maurice even in seasons under him where the Jets had a good record you of all people would understand why a coach might be leaving stuff on the table even if the win/loss record is good.

Personally, I am finding Bones more and more Maurice like- I hear some of the same bs (saying he hasn't put together 27-55-13 as he doesn't want 91 to play on the RW only to actually move 91 to RW a week later). He's a bit more honest than Paul about team's play but he has been very Maurice-like in talking about the situation with the top line.

Your continued posts about Maurice makes one believe that you have some sort of obsession about him. You know he quit on our team and fans mid season, a while ago now. Maybe you should go to the Panthers pages to pump your admiration for the quitter over there.

 

[GNP]

People should go and read the Buffalo GDT , some of their fans were very complimentary about our Jets. The Jets are legit, the Jets are for real , just a couple of posts by their fans. We have a very good team here boys and girls.

I love the positivity in your posts @Jets 31. They are realistic, and refreshing to read. Even if the Jets won the Cup, there would be people complaining about something. Enjoy the ride here.

 

[JetsFan815]

But how much better of a record could we have right now if Bowness was making what you think are better lines? I don't think we are doing any better if we set up lines differently. Now if we were really fighting for a playoff spot or worse i could totally get behind Bowness isn't doing a good job and we may need a change but how can we complain about anything right now? Again if we were only winning on the back of our goalies i could also see some complaining but right now it just sounds like Bowness isn't playing Ehlers or Perfetti the way i like so Bowness is a idiot and he needs to go .

All this talk is forward facing for the playoffs. The Jets since the ASB have won to some extent on the back of their goaltending. I don't think Bones is an idiot , he has done some remarkable things for this club but he has kind lost control when it comes to the top end of his roster.

You won't hear me complain much about Perfetti... due to the strength of Jets roster the difference between Perfetti on the 2nd or 4th line is marginal. But I (and many others) genuinely believe that the difference between Ehlers on the top line and on the 3rd line could very likely be the difference between a 1st round exit and a deep run.

Those 2 coaches just happen to currently be coaching the top 2 teams points % wise in the NHL. How good do you think those 2 teams really are if they are leaving stuff on the table with their current coaches? That's like really, really good.

I was not a Maurice hater... I was actually one of his few defenders left here by the end. Nor am I a Bones hater, pointing out something obvious that he is missing (which is not really an original thought as this is the main topic of discussion right now in the Jets media) isn't the same as saying he's a bad or useless coach.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

Any smart coach would do that if he feels he's lost the team and has the financial freedom to walk. But this childish bit of "professional quitter" pretty much defines your ability to be reasoned with.

Yeah, as opposed to the guy who was here but is now coaching the overall number one team in the league.

I enjoy seeing your posts about hockey related things.

Actually, I can't think of any other NHL coach that quit during the regular season and on the day of a game. But I here to be educated.

 

[10Ducky10]

JMo 8g 43a = 51 points in 60 games and +23.
Dahlin 15g 31a = 46 points in 61 games and -9.

JMo 6.25m AAV.
Dahlin 11m AAV.

 

[NA Hockey]

JMo 8g 43a = 51 points in 60 games and +23.
Dahlin 15g 31a = 46 points in 61 games and -9.

JMo 6.25m AAV.
Dahlin 11m AAV.

And remember there was time, a long time ago, that many on this board complained about JMo, his offence, his defending, his contract. His first 4 or 5 years in Winnipeg he was routinely ripped on.

Now he is a top 5 D in the league.

 

[Weezeric]

I agree on Monahan. We are starting to see a bit of his limitations 5 on 5. He doesn't generate much offense on his own. What he's very good at is playing that bumper spot on the PP. His line has three 5 on 5 goals in the past 6 games and two of those goals were off of solo efforts by Fly.

I worry about some of our scoring in the playoffs when the refs put away their whistles. We need more from that group in es situations.

Ehlers has two 5v5 playoff goals in his career, so that doesn’t bode well.

 

[Buffdog]

I enjoy seeing your posts about hockey related things.

Actually, I can't think of any other NHL coach that quit during the regular season and on the day of a game. But I here to be educated.

He should have been axed way earlier

It was apparent to the players, the fans, and even to him himself. Staying was counter productive.

What, exactly, should PoMo have done? Continue to try to coach a team that had clearly tuned him out (or at least a decent portion of it?)

You're the #1 PoMo hater on here, and seem to he the only poster who hasn't let it go/gotten over it

Blame chevy (amd maybe chipman), not PoMo

 

[surixon]

I don't know i have really liked what I've seen from Monahan so far, he's not getting many assists but he's definitely putting the puck in the net. 6 goals and 1 assist for 7 points in only 10 games with us is pretty good. Someone has to put the puck in the net and he's doing exactly that .

Don't get me wrong. He's bringing a lot of positives to the table. But most of those points are on the pp and on the en. What I'm trying to get at is his production is mirroring what it was for the Habs and that is heavily slated to special teams. Special team production is important but for a 2C 5 on 5 production is also important and as of now only 3 points come from that game state.

Ehlers has two 5v5 playoff goals in his career, so that doesn’t bode well.

Well Fly has been a major playoff disappointment. It's really put up or shut up for him this year.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

He should have been axed way earlier

It was apparent to the players, the fans, and even to him himself. Staying was counter productive.

What, exactly, should PoMo have done? Continue to try to coach a team that had clearly tuned him out (or at least a decent portion of it?)

You're the #1 PoMo hater on here, and seem to he the only poster who hasn't let it go/gotten over it

Blame chevy (amd maybe chipman), not PoMo

I did not bring Maurice into the discussion in this thread. I was compelled to respond to a nonsensical post about me that included him. Record set straight. Good night.

 

[Atoyot]

EDIT: Finger slip

 

[Atoyot]

I enjoy seeing your posts about hockey related things.

Actually, I can't think of any other NHL coach that quit during the regular season and on the day of a game. But I here to be educated.

That season was lost, fans were calling for him to be fired for years, he felt like he wasn't getting through to his players. I don't have any issue with Maurice leaving when he did. He's now coaching a team that's built to play the style that he demands from his players and that's great for him, the Jets weren't built for that game and he wouldn't adjust.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

That season was lost, fans were calling for him to be fired for years, he felt like he wasn't getting through to his players. I don't have any issue with Maurice leaving when he did. He's now coaching a team that's built to play the style that he demands from his players and that's great for him, the Jets weren't built for that game and he wouldn't adjust.

Cool. I can tell by the way you describe his departure that you are an empathetic person. That is a good quality to have.

Me, I was raised that you do not quit on your team. People that quit on you do not deserve your respect. (Before the usual culprits blow up, of course there are exceptions like health, family, etc)

I am chearing for Maurice and the Panthers to go all the way. That is the funny thing for me here, reading some of the comments about me hating while I am actually chearing them on. Now, if they meet the Jets in the final, then the Panthers can eat shit.

 

[Dale53130]

@Dale53130 spent way more time than I'd be willing to in order to show that managing Ehlers minutes correlates with better performance

That should end the discussion unless anyone can refute it with something better than "well, yeah but the Jets must have been winning those games"...

If that's your take, go back and look at the game logs like he did and prove it

Thank you!

Here's Ehlers in all of his career games, where he's played 17 minutes and up, including the playoffs.

2015-16

• 5 goals, 12 assists in 26 games
• -8
• 75 shots
• 19 losses, 7 wins

2016-17

• 11 goals, 23 assists in 48 games
• -12
• 140 shots
• 30 losses, 18 wins

2017-18

• 6 goals, 8 assists in 25 games
• -5
• 82 shots
• 15 losses, 10 wins

2018-19

• 9 goals, 4 assists in 18 games
• +5
• 47 shots
• 7 losses, 11 wins

2019-20

• 11 goals, 16 assists in 30 games
• +5
• 99 shots
• 17 losses, 13 wins

2020-21

• 8 goals, 11 assists in 25 games
• +3
• 78 shots
• 13 losses, 12 wins

2021-22

• 19 goals, 16 assists in 43 games
• +8
• 176 shots
• 25 losses, 18 wins

2022-23

• 3 goals, 4 assists in 13 games
• -4
• 40 shots
• 10 losses, 3 wins

2023-24

• 2 goals, 7 assists in 16 games
• +1
• 58 shots
• 9 losses, 7 wins

Totals:

• 74 goals, 101 assists in 244 games
• -7
• 795 shots, 9.3 shooting percentage
• 145 losses vs 99 wins

Totals including playoffs:

• 75 goals, 102 assists in 256 games
• -12
• 828 shots, 9.1 shooting percentage
• 154 losses vs 102 wins

And the Jets over his period with the Jets have a record of 365 wins vs 256 losses.

I'm thinking about this in relation to the data obtained (above).

 

[ecolad]

Don't get me wrong. He's bringing a lot of positives to the table. But most of those points are on the pp and on the en. What I'm trying to get at is his production is mirroring what it was for the Habs and that is heavily slated to special teams. Special team production is important but for a 2C 5 on 5 production is also important and as of now only 3 points come from that game state.

I feel that Bowness has, for some inexplicable reason, simply not made a sufficient effort to build a successful line around Monahan. Namestnikov as one of his wingers seems to hold a lot of promise, with signs of real possible chemistry, but Bowness is not focussed on building on that by trying some different wingers with that pairing - taking us back again to the issue of where to most optimally play Ehlers and Connor. Of course, it is easy to visualize how a line might best perform based on paper analysis but it is absolutely necessary to observe performance in a suitable period of real-game competition. It would be so nice to see some planned experimentation instead of this habit of resorting to the old blender at brief situational times during games.

 

[Jetsfan79]

Pushback can backfire just as easily as Frauds. So can any slogan, if you fail to live up to it.

I just associate frauds with two timing and cowardice. I djust on't see any good use of this slogan at all

 

[Jack7222]

Thank you!

Here's Ehlers in all of his career games, where he's played 17 minutes and up, including the playoffs.

View attachment 829502

View attachment 829504

View attachment 829510

View attachment 829512

View attachment 829514

View attachment 829515

View attachment 829516

View attachment 829518

View attachment 829519
View attachment 829520

2015-16

• 5 goals, 12 assists in 26 games
• -8
• 75 shots
• 19 losses, 7 wins

2016-17

• 11 goals, 23 assists in 48 games
• -12
• 140 shots
• 30 losses, 18 wins

2017-18

• 6 goals, 8 assists in 25 games
• -5
• 82 shots
• 15 losses, 10 wins

2018-19

• 9 goals, 4 assists in 18 games
• +5
• 47 shots
• 7 losses, 11 wins

2019-20

• 11 goals, 16 assists in 30 games
• +5
• 99 shots
• 17 losses, 13 wins

2020-21

• 8 goals, 11 assists in 25 games
• +3
• 78 shots
• 13 losses, 12 wins

2021-22

• 19 goals, 16 assists in 43 games
• +8
• 176 shots
• 25 losses, 18 wins

2022-23

• 3 goals, 4 assists in 13 games
• -4
• 40 shots
• 10 losses, 3 wins

2023-24

• 2 goals, 7 assists in 16 games
• +1
• 58 shots
• 9 losses, 7 wins

Totals:

• 74 goals, 101 assists in 244 games
• -7
• 795 shots, 9.3 shooting percentage
• 145 losses vs 99 wins

Totals including playoffs:

• 75 goals, 102 assists in 256 games
• -12
• 828 shots, 9.1 shooting percentage
• 154 losses vs 102 wins

And the Jets over his period with the Jets have a record of 365 wins vs 256 losses.

View attachment 829550

I'm thinking about this in relation to the data obtained (above).

View attachment 829555

I feel like this is a bit of a weird point? Why would Ehlers (or anyone) play worse just because they play more minutes? You realize of course that in a game he plays 20 minutes he... also played 17 minutes up until that point, right?

The real issue with players playing too much is that it wears them out down the stretch, or if they play a ton in a game maybe they let up a bad goal late game.

But the things you're showing here with wins and losses and stuff seem more likely to be correlated with something other than Ehlers' endurance levels.

 

[Buffdog]

I feel like this is a bit of a weird point? Why would Ehlers (or anyone) play worse just because they play more minutes? You realize of course that in a game he plays 20 minutes he... also played 17 minutes up until that point, right?

The real issue with players playing too much is that it wears them out down the stretch, or if they play a ton in a game maybe they let up a bad goal late game.

But the things you're showing here with wins and losses and stuff seem more likely to be correlated with something other than Ehlers' endurance levels.

Cognitive dissonance is strong with this one

More minutes = more fatigue

Higher in the line up = more minutes = playing against other teams better players

Both of those would produce worse results