Confirmed with Link: Jordan Binnington 6 Year Extension

[Xerloris]

That's not what I said.

Armstrong is a great GM and I like him a lot but that wasn't his finest decision. The warning flags were there. Binnington was never gonna be a starter and he was never the same after the cup run. He was also, like I said, outplayed by Allen for an entire season. Now Allen had his struggles as well but he proved that in the right circumstances he's able to provide solid goaltending not just for a few games but also months or even years. Binnington never did that. I know exactly nothing compared to Armstrong and I'm the first to admit that I thought Husso would probably never get it together again in NA. Still, Armstrong really should have kept Allen over Binnington or at least ask for the latter to provide some kind of a sample size before throwing stupid money and term at him. I'll never get that decision. Binnington was going backwards already when Armstrong hit him with that contract.

Allen did not outplay Binnington for an entire season. He was a backup that played like 22 games. Binnington won 30 games and probably would have hit 35 wins in the first season after the cup. Also how quickly people forget but Allen had to go so we could attempt to sign Pietrangelo.

I just want to toss these stats out there. These are Binningtons games before he got covid.

Oct16 32 sog 906sv% 5-3 win in colorado
Oct18 26 sog 846sv% 7-4 win in arizona
Oct20 43 sog 977sv% 3-1 win in vegas
Oct23 35 sog 914sv% 7-3 win vs kings
Oct28 42 sog 905sv% 4-3 loss vs Colorado ( we managed 18 shots )
Oct30 25 sog 100sv% 1-0 win vs Chicago
Nov3 35 sog 943sv% 3-1 loss in LA
Nov7 27 sog 885sv% 4-1 loss in Anaheim
Nov9 41 sog 951sv% 3-2 Win in Winnipeg
Nov11 27 sog 852sv% 4-3 loss vs nashville
Nov14 32 sog 844sv% 5-4 loss vs edmonton
Nov16 23 sog 870sv% 3-2 loss vs arizona
Nov20 33 sog 906sv% 4-1 loss in dallas
nov22 34 sog 941sv% 5-2 win vs vegas
nov26 27 sog 889sv% 3-2 loss in chicago
nov30 33 sog 909sv% 4-3 win vs tampa

There are some clunkers in there for sure but Hofer and Husso both had 2 shit games as well. Now I'm not going to claim to be some kind of in depth guru here but imo I first noticed his style seemed to be off a bit around early to mid november. Not saying I am right but just that I personally thought he seemed off a bit. This also coincided with Husso having Covid and Hofer being our back up, so if Binnington was going through something it didn't matter and they rode him through it anyway because we had no choice. Either way he was still doing just fine until he came back from covid and he simply has not been the same since then.

 

[Reality Czech]

That's not what I said.

Armstrong is a great GM and I like him a lot but that wasn't his finest decision. The warning flags were there. Binnington was never gonna be a starter and he was never the same after the cup run. He was also, like I said, outplayed by Allen for an entire season. Now Allen had his struggles as well but he proved that in the right circumstances he's able to provide solid goaltending not just for a few games but also months or even years. Binnington never did that. I know exactly nothing compared to Armstrong and I'm the first to admit that I thought Husso would probably never get it together again in NA. Still, Armstrong really should have kept Allen over Binnington or at least ask for the latter to provide some kind of a sample size before throwing stupid money and term at him. I'll never get that decision. Binnington was going backwards already when Armstrong hit him with that contract.

So he should have kicked his Cup winning goalie to the curb and kept the guy who achieved nothing? Obviously the timing put Armstrong in a tough spot, but Allen had plenty of chances to be the guy and failed.


Besides, what is the point dwelling on past decisions? What's done is done. With every contract signing there is a chance it doesn't work out but you also don't judge a six year deal after less than one year.

 

[Bluesnatic27]

That's not what I said.

Armstrong is a great GM and I like him a lot but that wasn't his finest decision. The warning flags were there. Binnington was never gonna be a starter and he was never the same after the cup run. He was also, like I said, outplayed by Allen for an entire season. Now Allen had his struggles as well but he proved that in the right circumstances he's able to provide solid goaltending not just for a few games but also months or even years. Binnington never did that. I know exactly nothing compared to Armstrong and I'm the first to admit that I thought Husso would probably never get it together again in NA. Still, Armstrong really should have kept Allen over Binnington or at least ask for the latter to provide some kind of a sample size before throwing stupid money and term at him. I'll never get that decision. Binnington was going backwards already when Armstrong hit him with that contract.

In no world had Allen proven to be a better starter than Binnington. I find it hilarious that you’re talking about sample size when you have clearly never looked into the data, or else you would never have made such a claim.

This is getting ridiculous.

 

[Majorityof1]

That's not what I said.

Armstrong is a great GM and I like him a lot but that wasn't his finest decision. The warning flags were there. Binnington was never gonna be a starter and he was never the same after the cup run. He was also, like I said, outplayed by Allen for an entire season. Now Allen had his struggles as well but he proved that in the right circumstances he's able to provide solid goaltending not just for a few games but also months or even years. Binnington never did that. I know exactly nothing compared to Armstrong and I'm the first to admit that I thought Husso would probably never get it together again in NA. Still, Armstrong really should have kept Allen over Binnington or at least ask for the latter to provide some kind of a sample size before throwing stupid money and term at him. I'll never get that decision. Binnington was going backwards already when Armstrong hit him with that contract.

Just because a back-up has better stats than a the #1 goalie does not mean the backup is outplaying the #1. It especially doesn't mean the back-up could handle being a #1. #1 goalies play more games and get the harder matchups. They get the road games, the tougher of the back-to-backs. Back-ups get their spots picked as to when we can get away with a weaker goalie. It is much easier to put up good numbers in that situation. Its why a lot of great backups fall apart when given the full reigns. Allen has always thrived in a back-up role or at least a platoon situation. Binnington might not have been worth his contract. I'd say that is fairly obvious now. But Allen wasn't the answer either.

 

[AjaxManifesto]

Blues fans always need a player to pick on.

In the past it has been Allen, Krug, Sanford, and Faulk. Jordan’s numbers suck now and he’s having issues. So naturally he’s being run out of town like he has the plague.

Whatever. I’ll let DA and the coaches figure this one out. I hope Binny finds his way again, if not he will be traded and we bring the next guy up.

 

[TheDizee]

Blues fans always need a player to pick on.

In the past it has been Allen, Krug, Sanford, and Faulk. Jordan’s numbers suck now and he’s having issues. So naturally he’s being run out of town like he has the plague.

Whatever. I’ll let DA and the coaches figure this one out. I hope Binny finds his way again, if not he will be traded and we bring the next guy up.

traded to who?

who will want a goalie looking to find his game again at that cap hit?

 

[Blueston]

Unbelievable how short some people’s memories are. Virtually every goalie has flunks where they look awful for few weeks. Zero reason to believe this is terminal.

 

[Brian39]

That's not what I said.

Armstrong is a great GM and I like him a lot but that wasn't his finest decision. The warning flags were there. Binnington was never gonna be a starter and he was never the same after the cup run. He was also, like I said, outplayed by Allen for an entire season. Now Allen had his struggles as well but he proved that in the right circumstances he's able to provide solid goaltending not just for a few games but also months or even years. Binnington never did that. I know exactly nothing compared to Armstrong and I'm the first to admit that I thought Husso would probably never get it together again in NA. Still, Armstrong really should have kept Allen over Binnington or at least ask for the latter to provide some kind of a sample size before throwing stupid money and term at him. I'll never get that decision. Binnington was going backwards already when Armstrong hit him with that contract.

You are living in a fantasy land. This is pure fiction.

In 2019/20 he started 50 games, which was 6th most in the NHL. His .912 SV% was 8th among the 18 goalies who started 40+ games and he finished 7th in Vezina voting. He had a positive GSAA and was 8th in goalie points share. There is zero reality-based argument that he wasn't a clear cut starter in 2019/20.

In 2020/21 he started 41 games which was 4th in the NHL. His .910 SV% was 12th of the 22 goalies who started 30+ games that year. He had a positive GSAA and was 9th in goalie points share. He wasn't quite as good as the year before, but he was still playing like a slightly-above-average goalie while handling a top 5 workload. Again, he was absolutely a starter.

That's 2 seasons after the rookie season where he was demonstrably an NHL starter. That is after putting up a great performance in a starter's workload for half a season his rookie year and then continuing really strong play in the playoffs over another 26 starts. All in all, that was 56 total starts in the first 6 months of 2019 where he posted a .921. He posted great AHL numbers through 16 starts before his NHL call up that year, so his total games played was 72 in the 2018/19 season. The circumstances of that season weren't enough to say that he was a starter all year, but it was enough to be a data point in his favor.

From 2018/19 to 2020/21, Binner was 12th in total regular season starts (which includes him playing zero NHL games for the first 3 months of the 2018/19 season. If you start counting 1/1/19 to erase that 3 month period where he wasn't playing in the NHL, he was 3rd. In that 2.5-3 year span where he was demonstrably handling a heavy starter's workload, his .915 SV% was 11th of the 31 goalies who started 75+ games. Binner was unquestionably a starter for the first 2.5 years of his NHL career (the half season being 2018/19 where he played like a top end starter from game 1 but simply didn't play a full NHL season). Not showing flashes that he could be a starter; he was a starter.

He was absolutely starter-caliber for a pretty large sample size. It is pure nonsense to pretend that he wasn't.

There is a good argument that Binner's performance in his first 3 NHL seasons was closer to average starter than good starter. There is a decent argument that he displayed a steady downward trajectory before signing the deal. There is a good argument that you should never give 5+ years to any goalie unless he is demonstrably the best goalie in the league. There is a good argument that GMs overvalue the ability to handle a top end workload. There is a good argument that Army boxed himself into a corner by giving him a 2 year deal in 2019. All of these alone (or several combined) are plenty of reasons to criticize Binner's contract. I've hated this contract since the day it was signed and I said as much on the 1st page of this thread on the day of the announcement.

But this growing narrative that he's sucked since the Cup run is pure and total nonsense.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

Allen outplayed Binnington for an entire season including playoffs. It wasn't even close. Still, Armstrong decided to let go the better of the two and throw stupid money at a poor goalie who has done nothing but regressed since the one outstanding playoff run he had.

The same Jake Allen that we refused to start at home because he couldn’t handle getting shit from the crowd because of his play? This is a hilarious take.

 

[GoldenSeal]

Allen outplayed Binnington for an entire season including playoffs. It wasn't even close. Still, Armstrong decided to let go the better of the two and throw stupid money at a poor goalie who has done nothing but regressed since the one outstanding playoff run he had.

The “one outstanding playoff run” that vindicated 50+ years of suffering of a fan base whose team has had some of the best players to ever lace up but never to win it all?

Won by the first rookie netminder to win all the games to hoist the Cup on the team that was DEAD FKIN LAST in December with Jake Allen as the starter?

YOU call THAT a ‘outstanding playoff run’ like it’s nothing to win the Cup, that we climbed up from dead last to earn a playoff spot or even the amount of misfortune this franchise and its fanbase has endured for what, half a century+?

You’re not a Blues fan. You can go to the Montreal forum if Jake Allen means that much to you. Because he ain’t here no more and your argument is ludicrous.

Jake Allen isn’t even better than what we got in the pipeline.

This just triggers the hell out of me.

 

[WATTAGE4451]

That's not what I said.

Armstrong is a great GM and I like him a lot but that wasn't his finest decision. The warning flags were there. Binnington was never gonna be a starter and he was never the same after the cup run. He was also, like I said, outplayed by Allen for an entire season. Now Allen had his struggles as well but he proved that in the right circumstances he's able to provide solid goaltending not just for a few games but also months or even years. Binnington never did that. I know exactly nothing compared to Armstrong and I'm the first to admit that I thought Husso would probably never get it together again in NA. Still, Armstrong really should have kept Allen over Binnington or at least ask for the latter to provide some kind of a sample size before throwing stupid money and term at him. I'll never get that decision. Binnington was going backwards already when Armstrong hit him with that contract.

umm...lol? look, the binny extension was overpay and bad, but suggesting we kept should have kept allen at the time is beyond absurd. that had already been played out.

 

[Hinterland]

The “one outstanding playoff run” that vindicated 50+ years of suffering of a fan base whose team has had some of the best players to ever lace up but never to win it all?

Won by the first rookie netminder to win all the games to hoist the Cup on the team that was DEAD FKIN LAST in December with Jake Allen as the starter?

YOU call THAT a ‘outstanding playoff run’ like it’s nothing to win the Cup, that we climbed up from dead last to earn a playoff spot or even the amount of misfortune this franchise and its fanbase has endured for what, half a century+?

You’re not a Blues fan. You can go to the Montreal forum if Jake Allen means that much to you. Because he ain’t here no more and your argument is ludicrous.

Jake Allen isn’t even better than what we got in the pipeline.

This just triggers the hell out of me.

Calm down. I'm Swiss and rather neutral but there's teams I like and there's teams I don't like. So just because in my view Allen is a much better goalie than Binnington, that doesn't mean the Habs board is an option for me. I actually like Binnington a lot. It's just that at NHL level he's not a good goalie and hopelessly overpaid. I like him though. He's certainly more entertaining than Allen.

 

[Reality Czech]

Calm down. I'm Swiss and rather neutral but there's teams I like and there's teams I don't like. So just because in my view Allen is a much better goalie than Binnington, that doesn't mean the Habs board is an option for me. I actually like Binnington a lot. It's just that at NHL level he's not a good goalie and hopelessly overpaid. I like him though. He's certainly more entertaining than Allen.

Not sure why you'd think Allen is much better than Binner when their career stats are nearly the same but you do you. Allen never led this team to the promised land and was horribly inconsistent.

 

[PocketNines]

Calm down. I'm Swiss and rather neutral but there's teams I like and there's teams I don't like. So just because in my view Allen is a much better goalie than Binnington, that doesn't mean the Habs board is an option for me. I actually like Binnington a lot. It's just that at NHL level he's not a good goalie and hopelessly overpaid. I like him though. He's certainly more entertaining than Allen.

Your opinion is objectively and ridiculously false, is the thing. Where you are from is irrelevant.

 

[Bobby Orrtuzzo]

I’d be willing to bet a lot of money some of the people in here clamoring on about Allen were also in the large group of people that were wanting to trade him for a bag of pucks for YEARS.

 

[Reagans Blues]

I'm definitely not on the "Dump Binnington," train but it seems like a lot of people here seem to think that's he just going through a funk that he's going to shake out of any minute. The dude hasn't been anything special since the cup run. Been a lot of hockey played since then.

 

[BlueOil]

regardless of how well husso plays tonight, i'm expecting binnington against toronto. glad to see husso with a generally hot hand, but it just seems like there's still not much question of who the starter is for berube when there's quality competition on the ice. after toronto is philly, buffalo, and chicago, so husso will have plenty of games available to him. if husso can somehow convince berube to start him against teams like toronto and the new york rangers, there might be some actual drama there. husso would have to keep stealing starts, which could be a good problem to have.

 

[centipede2233]

A neutral fan here, I enjoy coming to your team forum because blues fans know there stuff. I think you have a very good team and you should be in the mix in a pretty weak western conference year to year. With that said you have 2 main issues, one obvious one and that’s binnington’s play. To compound things even more, he’s locked in a big contract and your backup has been superlative. To even further compound things, husso likely walks in the summer and I have seen zero signs of binnington regaining his form from 2019. The second problem is every teams goal is to win the cup. Since the cap era began in 2006, only one Stanley cup winner has won the cup without a Norris caliber defenceman, the 2006 Carolina hurricanes. Pittsburgh didn’t have letang in the playoffs in 2017, but he was on there roster which summarizes that the last team without a Norris caliber d man on there roster to win a cup was Carolina. I’m glad you guys got a magical cup run, it’s rare to be a part of it as a fan. But I do not see any cups in the blues future for a long long time. And that’s ok, because some teams like Toronto and Florida haven’t won a playoff round in 2 decades. But atleast your team should remain competitive, just not cup winning capable.

 

[mab894]

A neutral fan here, I enjoy coming to your team forum because blues fans know there stuff. I think you have a very good team and you should be in the mix in a pretty weak western conference year to year. With that said you have 2 main issues, one obvious one and that’s binnington’s play. To compound things even more, he’s locked in a big contract and your backup has been superlative. To even further compound things, husso likely walks in the summer and I have seen zero signs of binnington regaining his form from 2019. The second problem is every teams goal is to win the cup. Since the cap era began in 2006, only one Stanley cup winner has won the cup without a Norris caliber defenceman, the 2006 Carolina hurricanes. Pittsburgh didn’t have letang in the playoffs in 2017, but he was on there roster which summarizes that the last team without a Norris caliber d man on there roster to win a cup was Carolina. I’m glad you guys got a magical cup run, it’s rare to be a part of it as a fan. But I do not see any cups in the blues future for a long long time. And that’s ok, because some teams like Toronto and Florida haven’t won a playoff round in 2 decades. But atleast your team should remain competitive, just not cup winning capable.

A long long time? If the Blues add a top defender like Lindholm and Husso continues to play great (or Binnington starts playing well again), the Blues are contenders this year.

 

[Xerloris]

A neutral fan here, I enjoy coming to your team forum because blues fans know there stuff. I think you have a very good team and you should be in the mix in a pretty weak western conference year to year. With that said you have 2 main issues, one obvious one and that’s binnington’s play. To compound things even more, he’s locked in a big contract and your backup has been superlative. To even further compound things, husso likely walks in the summer and I have seen zero signs of binnington regaining his form from 2019. The second problem is every teams goal is to win the cup. Since the cap era began in 2006, only one Stanley cup winner has won the cup without a Norris caliber defenceman, the 2006 Carolina hurricanes. Pittsburgh didn’t have letang in the playoffs in 2017, but he was on there roster which summarizes that the last team without a Norris caliber d man on there roster to win a cup was Carolina. I’m glad you guys got a magical cup run, it’s rare to be a part of it as a fan. But I do not see any cups in the blues future for a long long time. And that’s ok, because some teams like Toronto and Florida haven’t won a playoff round in 2 decades. But atleast your team should remain competitive, just not cup winning capable.

It's not like Pietrangelo ever won a norris. Parayko and Jbo were the defensemen that were our stars in 2019.

 

[Hinterland]

regardless of how well husso plays tonight, i'm expecting binnington against toronto. glad to see husso with a generally hot hand, but it just seems like there's still not much question of who the starter is for berube when there's quality competition on the ice. after toronto is philly, buffalo, and chicago, so husso will have plenty of games available to him. if husso can somehow convince berube to start him against teams like toronto and the new york rangers, there might be some actual drama there. husso would have to keep stealing starts, which could be a good problem to have.

Binnington needs practice time and should absolutely not get any starts. Practice is his only hope because playing him in games has absolutely not worked. He's gotten worse with every game and the NJ game was ridiculous. I don't know if he'll be able to clean up his game but before Binnington has done that there's no point playing him in games. Husso is the starter until he starts tiring. Even then I'd consider a call up in order to protect Binnington. I said even before the allstar break that interrupting his practice time with games shouldn't be an option. Berube still did it and the outcome was even worse than I predicted or would have thought in my wildest dreams. NJ was the ultimate breakdown that could have been avoided. Berube also let him in there for the full game. In my view that was cruel and piss poor coaching.

Personally I think that Binnington is just not a good goalie and probably can't play much better now he got figured out but he wouldn't be the first goalie to return stronger after some extended practice time. I believe Allen also had to reinvent himself after the equipment change and actually played much better after some time off. It's absolutely something the Blues have to try with Binnington. They just should have done it much earlier in order not to completely ruin his confidence and for him not to miss this many games.

 

[Xerloris]

Binnington needs practice time and should absolutely not get any starts. Practice is his only hope because playing him in games has absolutely not worked. He's gotten worse with every game and the NJ game was ridiculous. I don't know if he'll be able to clean up his game but before Binnington has done that there's no point playing him in games. Husso is the starter until he starts tiring. Even then I'd consider a call up in order to protect Binnington. I said even before the allstar break that interrupting his practice time with games shouldn't be an option. Berube still did it and the outcome was even worse than I predicted or would have thought in my wildest dreams. NJ was the ultimate breakdown that could have been avoided. Berube also let him in there for the full game. In my view that was cruel and piss poor coaching.

Personally I think that Binnington is just not a good goalie and probably can't play much better now he got figured out but he wouldn't be the first goalie to return stronger after some extended practice time. I believe Allen also had to reinvent himself after the equipment change and actually played much better after some time off. It's absolutely something the Blues have to try with Binnington. They just should have done it much earlier in order not to completely ruin his confidence and for him not to miss this many games.

Practice, that's your f***ing solution? lol It's been said time and time again practice does not and cannot simulate a real game. Goalies have to look at video and have every aspect of what they're doing critiqued. Peronally I think there is something physically bothering Binnington.

 

[TruBlu]

Binnington came in on the cup run as an unknown. There was no book on him and that worked to his/our advantage. He's done nothing but regress year after year since then. I'm not even sure he's an "average" goalie at this point. You can point to months or maybe even a year being an outlier in regards to play, but Binnington has shown only one constant...a trend downward. For those that claimed Allen was a headcase, you're looking at another one right now. At least Allen's contract didn't hurt us.

 

[oldwpgjet]

I would like to see Binnington bounce back as well. The problem isn't he isn't a decent goalie most of the time, it is just the contract. If he had a 4 mil contract, most people wouldn't care if he has a down time but a few mill more , everyone wants a consistently very good goalie. Did Binnington get covid at all? Some players, it has really affected longer term. Zibanajad,last year, he wasn't very good at all, most of the season but started turning it around the last quarter. Scheiffle ,for the jets,another example, brutal 1st half of the season but coming on strong now. The two that came to mind but probably there are many examples so got wondering if this might have happened to Binnington, pretty fine line between good and bad sometimes in goal.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

I would like to see Binnington bounce back as well. The problem isn't he isn't a decent goalie most of the time, it is just the contract. If he had a 4 mil contract, most people wouldn't care if he has a down time but a few mill more , everyone wants a consistently very good goalie. Did Binnington get covid at all? Some players, it has really affected longer term. Zibanajad,last year, he wasn't very good at all, most of the season but started turning it around the last quarter. Scheiffle ,for the jets,another example, brutal 1st half of the season but coming on strong now. The two that came to mind but probably there are many examples so got wondering if this might have happened to Binnington, pretty fine line between good and bad sometimes in goal.

He's for sure had it once, and it's been rumored he had it during the first covid season during the lockdown as well