Jonathan Drouin vs William Nylander

[Critical13]

OP clearly states who you're taking forward - not who had a better season 2 years ago.

Right, that doesn't change anything. We know what Nylander can do, we've only seen glimpses for Drouin.

Forecasting a player's future means adding weights to more recent play, not ignoring past results completely.

 

[sansabri]

Right, that doesn't change anything. We know what Nylander can do, we've only seen glimpses for Drouin.

Forecasting a player's future means adding weights to more recent play, not ignoring past results completely.

This is incorrect. We know what Drouin can do.

 

[Critical13]

This is incorrect. We know what Drouin can do.

Disgaree, I think his adversity has caused his stats to be suppressed, I think he can do a lot more than score 53 pts.

 

[sansabri]

Disgaree, I think his adversity has caused his stats to be suppressed, I think he can do a lot more than score 53 pts.

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Because Nylander's potential was only 60 points? You're not disagreeing with me here.

 

[Critical13]

Because Nylander's potential was only 60 points? You're not disagreeing with me here.

Of course Nylander can score more. He's already a 60pt player. Drouin is not, but he definitely could be. We've seen what Nylander could be, at the world's he looked like a bonafide #1 NHL C, so we know he has that in him.

 

[sansabri]

Of course Nylander can score more. He's already a 60pt player. Drouin is not, but he definitely could be. We've seen what Nylander could be, at the world's he looked like a bonafide #1 NHL C, so we know he has that in him.

So you don't disagree with me. That's what I thought.

 

[ole ole]

It's interesting that you look at career results for TOI comparisons, but only this year and last year for points results...then you call it out as "excuses".

They are pretty close. If I am taking in total careers (including international play), I think Nylander is the better player and has a higher ceiling...but I would say Drouin has faced more adversity with the whole Tampa situation, so his potential could be getting underrated.

I would trade either for Sergachev, in a heartbeat.

I was responding to a Leaf poster who claimed that Drioun had [noticeably more average icetime per game.]
That noticeably more average icetime per game is 4 seconds per game so far in his career.
Sure makes that poster look a little out of touch if he thinks that 4 more seconds per game is that noticeable.

 

[Critical13]

So you don't disagree with me. That's what I thought.

Honestly, re-read our whole conversation.

I am saying that

• Nylander has shown a higher peak, and we've seen him perform at a higher level. I am making the point that forecasting who will be the player should take into account what they have accomplished.
• Drouin faced adversity which has likely impacted his points totals, but still has potential to be better. Should he could be a game breaker as a prospect in amateur leagues.

It seems like you were arguing anytime I hinted that Nylander could be the better player. It seems like you wanted a result, and disagreed with anything that hinted otherwise.

 

[ole ole]

Of course Nylander can score more. He's already a 60pt player. Drouin is not, but he definitely could be. We've seen what Nylander could be, at the world's he looked like a bonafide #1 NHL C, so we know he has that in him.

We have seen a few players who have looked like bonafide top players at the worlds only to not be near as good when join the NHL
Nylander hasn't prove he has the ability to become a #1 NHL C so no we don't know he has it in him.As of now we can all say he hasn't.

 

[ole ole]

Honestly, re-read our whole conversation.

I am saying that

• Nylander has shown a higher peak, and we've seen him perform at a higher level. I am making the point that forecasting who will be the player should take into account what they have accomplished.
• Drouin faced adversity which has likely impacted his points totals, but still has potential to be better. Should he could be a game breaker as a prospect in amateur leagues.

It seems like you were arguing anytime I hinted that Nylander could be the better player. It seems like you wanted a result, and disagreed with anything that hinted otherwise.

Sometimes a higher peak can be related to your linemates.
Wanna compare linemates for both.

 

[Michoulicious]

Both Nylander and Drouin are talented players that have a really high ceiling but that struggle with consistency and tend to play on the periphery.

Main difference here is I'd say Nylander had the chance to play with a way superior C/on a way more talented PP most of his career, so it's normal to expect more in his case in term of production than what he has done in the last 2 years.

I would love to see what a Drouin-Matthews tandem could do, I think they would complement each other very well. Nothing against Domi, but Matthews a way better C.

 

[Critical13]

We have seen a few players who have looked like bonafide top players at the worlds only to not be near as good when join the NHL
Nylander hasn't prove he has the ability to become a #1 NHL C so no we don't know he has it in him.As of now we can all say he hasn't.

Drouin hasn't proven he can be more than 53 point player, and yet I give him that benefit. Interesting that Habs fans in particular cannot agree with Nylander having that untapped potential, but none have a problem with pointing out Drouins.

Both are players that have a lot more than they've shown in them. Nylander has shown a higher peak, and you can ignore the Worlds if you want but I won't. Another player who showed he could be much more in the NHL than his NHL stats - Mackinnon.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

What's going on with Nylander? I was told he was going to come out flying this year, but he's still struggling to produce anywhere near enough to justify his contract.

He's on pace for just 49 points, playing with one of the best goal scorers in the world.

 

[Critical13]

Sometimes a higher peak can be related to your linemates.
Wanna compare linemates for both.

Sure - in 2016-17...

Nylander scored 61pts playing with Hyman and Matthews at 5v5, then Hyman, Matthews, Brown and Kadri on the PP.

While Drouin (a year older) scored 53 points playing with Boyle, Point and Killorn 5v5, then Kucherov, Point and Palat on the PP.

Used Dobber's Frozen tools linemates tracker for those.

To me, it seems like both had pretty decent linemates. Not sure I buy the whole linemates thing.

 

[Critical13]

What's going on with Nylander? I was told he was going to come out flying this year, but he's still struggling to produce anywhere near enough to justify his contract.

He's on pace for just 49 points, playing with one of the best goal scorers in the world.

Personally, I don't like him with Matthews. He'd be better off with Tavares who doesn't need the puck as much and goes to dirtier areas.

It also doesn't help that he's on the 2nd PP with Moore, Spezza, etc. You look at the top comparables, most of them are getting top PP unit with the best unit, not the garbage time unit.

I'd love to see Willy under a different coach. He and Babcock have never meshed well.

 

[sansabri]

Honestly, re-read our whole conversation.

I am saying that

• Nylander has shown a higher peak, and we've seen him perform at a higher level. I am making the point that forecasting who will be the player should take into account what they have accomplished.
• Drouin faced adversity which has likely impacted his points totals, but still has potential to be better. Should he could be a game breaker as a prospect in amateur leagues.

It seems like you were arguing anytime I hinted that Nylander could be the better player. It seems like you wanted a result, and disagreed with anything that hinted otherwise.

Except, no. We've seen Drouin put up 14 points in 17 playoff games.

He's better right now and looks to be for the future.

 

[Critical13]

Except, no. We've seen Drouin put up 14 points in 17 playoff games.

He's better right now and looks to be for the future.

Ah, this tells me what I need to know about discussing this with you.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Personally, I don't like him with Matthews. He'd be better off with Tavares who doesn't need the puck as much and goes to dirtier areas.

It also doesn't help that he's on the 2nd PP with Moore, Spezza, etc. You look at the top comparables, most of them are getting top PP unit with the best unit, not the garbage time unit.

I'd love to see Willy under a different coach. He and Babcock have never meshed well.

You can't seriously be blaming his lack of production on playing with Matthews? It didn't seem to hurt him 2 years ago. I'm sure most of his comparables don't have a center anywhere near as good as Matthews.

Yet he's still only at 6 ES points through 15 games.

At a 7M cap hit, there shouldn't be any linemate excuses - and he's still getting nearly 3 mins a game on the PP.

 

[Critical13]

You can't seriously be blaming his lack of production on playing with Matthews? It didn't seem to hurt him 2 years ago. I'm sure most of his comparables don't have a center anywhere near as good as Matthews.

Yet he's still only at 6 ES points through 15 games.

At a 7M cap hit, there shouldn't be any linemate excuses - and he's still getting nearly 3 mins a game on the PP.

That was an opinion, not an excuse.

As for the rest, I am not here to debate his production vs his cap hit, nor against the top RWs in the game. I am comparing them to Drouin.

 

[Menzinger]

By more average ice time per game, do you mean the average of 4 more seconds per game he gets.
Man that is some huge advantage.
Drouin-Career Average ice time-----16.19
Nylander-Career Average ice time---16.15
I guess it's back to the drawing board looking for more excuses.

During the seasons where Nylander potted 61 points (16/17 and 17/18) Drouin was averaging over a minute more per game

 

[82Ninety42011]

All the talent in the world but neither seems to care and then have moments where you think wow. I can't imagine the frustration with their respective teams because they realize the talent they have but lack the drive. Both are very disappointing considering the expectation of them.

 

[ole ole]

During the seasons where Nylander potted 61 points (16/17 and 17/18) Drouin was averaging over a minute more per game

Like you said to another poster i will relay back to you.
Ah, this tells me what I need to know about discussing this with you.

 

[Stamkos4life]

You can't seriously be blaming his lack of production on playing with Matthews? It didn't seem to hurt him 2 years ago. I'm sure most of his comparables don't have a center anywhere near as good as Matthews.

Yet he's still only at 6 ES points through 15 games.

At a 7M cap hit, there shouldn't be any linemate excuses - and he's still getting nearly 3 mins a game on the PP.

Nylander's lack of production is not based on anything william has done. It's all because of his linemates and his bad luck. The sooner you accept this reality the easier everything will be.