Player Discussion Jonathan Drouin Part 2

[Laurentide]

You're calling a player who took a leave of absence because he's dealing with someone serious a quitter. Are you kidding me?

That's how GM's around the league will view it. It doesn't matter what teams say for public consumption, the reality is that the stigma is there and Drouin's track record with regard to his reliability is suspect. Bell Media does this big mental health PR campaign every year and every year around the same time there are several articles that come out which reveal that Bell is one of the worst offenders when it comes to having a toxic workplace that contributes to the poor mental health of their employees. This year, about 2 weeks after "Bell Let's Talk" Day, Bell closed 3 radio stations without warning, including TSN1040 in Vancouver which was an original TEAM affiliate which had been in operation for just shy of 20 years. They switched the station's signal to head office in Toronto one morning and then told staff they had 30 minutes to clean out their desks and vacate the premises. So they obviously don't give a crap about mental health despite the annual dog and pony show known as "Let's Talk".

So why would we think that the NHL or its member clubs really care either?

If Drouin had undergone hip replacement surgery he'd be more likely to get a GM to take a flyer on him than having "mental issues". Guys with those kinds of problems are seen as ticking time bombs and no GM wants to be holding that grenade in case it goes off. Drouin is an untradeable asset and I doubt very much that he ever plays another NHL game, for the Habs or anyone else.

 

[Canadiens98]

That's how GM's around the league will view it. It doesn't matter what teams say for public consumption, the reality is that the stigma is there and Drouin's track record with regard to his reliability is suspect. Bell Media does this big mental health PR campaign every year and every year around the same time there are several articles that come out which reveal that Bell is one of the worst offenders when it comes to having a toxic workplace that contributes to the poor mental health of their employees. This year, about 2 weeks after "Bell Let's Talk" Day, Bell closed 3 radio stations without warning, including TSN1040 in Vancouver which was an original TEAM affiliate which had been in operation for just shy of 20 years. They switched the station's signal to head office in Toronto one morning and then told staff they had 30 minutes to clean out their desks and vacate the premises. So they obviously don't give a crap about mental health despite the annual dog and pony show known as "Let's Talk".

So why would we think that the NHL or its member clubs really care either?

If Drouin had undergone hip replacement surgery he'd be more likely to get a GM to take a flyer on him than having "mental issues". Guys with those kinds of problems are seen as ticking time bombs and no GM wants to be holding that grenade in case it goes off. Drouin is an untradeable asset and I doubt very much that he ever plays another NHL game, for the Habs or anyone else.

Hang on sorry, all I'm saying is that we as human beings should care for another human being who is clearly going through something. I didn't make any comment about how Bell runs their organization.

Also I think you're giving GM's a little less credit than you should. A player is not damaged goods just because he went on a leave of absence to help himself get better, if anything it shows GM's that he's prepared to do what he needs to do to better himself. Are you reading what you're writing? Why did you put mental issues? Mental health is serious and it should be treated as such. My money's on Drouin coming back and putting in the best year of his career.

 

[Laurentide]

Hang on sorry, all I'm saying is that we as human beings should care for another human being who is clearly going through something. I didn't make any comment about how Bell runs their organization.

Also I think you're giving GM's a little less credit than you should. A player is not damaged goods just because he went on a leave of absence to help himself get better, if anything it shows GM's that he's prepared to do what he needs to do to better himself. Are you reading what you're writing? Why did you put mental issues? Mental health is serious and it should be treated as such. My money's on Drouin coming back and putting in the best year of his career.

You're talking about the world as it should be rather than the world as it actually is. And the hockey world is at least 20 years behind the times when it comes to what's manly and what isn't. There are still a lot of dinosaur GM's out there with Don Cherry mentalities. They're just better able to hide their true natures behind a veneer of corporate double-talk so that they don't screw up and say the quiet part out loud.

 

[Whitesnake]

Friendly wager that he stays and puts up 70 points next year?

Friendly wager is that either one who is wrong comes back and say it. I will be right here. Will you?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Friendly wager is that either one who is wrong comes back and say it. I will be right here. Will you?

Odds are in your favor though. Got to give him 2/1 odds on the friendly wager

 

[Habs Halifax]

Hang on sorry, all I'm saying is that we as human beings should care for another human being who is clearly going through something. I didn't make any comment about how Bell runs their organization.

Also I think you're giving GM's a little less credit than you should. A player is not damaged goods just because he went on a leave of absence to help himself get better, if anything it shows GM's that he's prepared to do what he needs to do to better himself. Are you reading what you're writing? Why did you put mental issues? Mental health is serious and it should be treated as such. My money's on Drouin coming back and putting in the best year of his career.

The Habs don't have the type of physical players for Drouin to slide into IMO. If he is not with the Habs, he might have his best career year.

 

[Canadiens98]

You're talking about the world as it should be rather than the world as it actually is. And the hockey world is at least 20 years behind the times when it comes to what's manly and what isn't. There are still a lot of dinosaur GM's out there with Don Cherry mentalities. They're just better able to hide their true natures behind a veneer of corporate double-talk so that they don't screw up and say the quiet part out loud.

Shouldn't we as fans try to normalize this way of thinking though? I understand your comment and honestly you're probably not wrong, but that's pretty sad isn't it? The only way there will be change is if people start speaking about these topics the way we know we should. I genuinely believe we all know Drouin should be taking this time off, if he was working any other job it would be looked at differently but because he plays for our favourite team and he was poor prior to leaving. It looks like he's just a weak kid who never grew up, in actuality maybe he's had this for a while. I can't say for certainty because I don't know him but when I watch his tape from junior to his first few years with Tampa to the past 2 seasons with Montreal, the difference is night and day. The first and real Jo is a player who wants the puck on his stick at all times because he knows he can make the difference, the latter is someone who doesn't want the puck. He shows glimpses every game or every couple games of the player he is but I never read anything positive about him. It's almost like he's expected to be magical every time he's out on the ice.

I'm not saying we shouldn't critique him, when/if he were to perform poorly that's one thing, but to constantly berate the man like cmon we're better than that. This comment is for the media obviously, not for this board which is just a fan forum. It's easy to see why he would be struggling with something internally when we conceptualize this happening to one of us or our children you know what I mean?

 

[Canadiens98]

Friendly wager is that either one who is wrong comes back and say it. I will be right here. Will you?

That's definitely fair, absolutely.

 

[Laurentide]

Shouldn't we as fans try to normalize this way of thinking though? I understand your comment and honestly you're probably not wrong, but that's pretty sad isn't it? The only way there will be change is if people start speaking about these topics the way we know we should. I genuinely believe we all know Drouin should be taking this time off, if he was working any other job it would be looked at differently but because he plays for our favourite team and he was poor prior to leaving. It looks like he's just a weak kid who never grew up, in actuality maybe he's had this for a while. I can't say for certainty because I don't know him but when I watch his tape from junior to his first few years with Tampa to the past 2 seasons with Montreal, the difference is night and day. The first and real Jo is a player who wants the puck on his stick at all times because he knows he can make the difference, the latter is someone who doesn't want the puck. He shows glimpses every game or every couple games of the player he is but I never read anything positive about him. It's almost like he's expected to be magical every time he's out on the ice.

I'm not saying we shouldn't critique him, when/if he were to perform poorly that's one thing, but to constantly berate the man like cmon we're better than that. This comment is for the media obviously, not for this board which is just a fan forum. It's easy to see why he would be struggling with something internally when we conceptualize this happening to one of us or our children you know what I mean?

Well first and foremost, we need to remember that we really don't know what Drouin's issues actually are. It's all speculation. I've heard rumors about suicidal tendencies but I've also heard rumors that it's simply a self-inflicted problem involving drug abuse. Last rumor I heard was that he's down in Florida at some fancy rehab center for the rich and well-connected where he can get privacy. So we simply don't know and may never know what the deal is with him.

It is sad that in 2021 we still have to acknowledge that attitudes among NHL front office types has not evolved, on mental health issues or much else, really. But as the immortal Todd Bertuzzi once said, "it is what it is." If we're having a discussion about Drouin as an asset to be moved we can't separate that from the prevailing mentality of NHL general managers. Steve Yzerman is probably among the more progressive thinkers among NHL GM's and we already know that he has no use for Drouin. So if he won't touch him, who will?

Assuming that Drouin ever decides he wants to make a comeback (which is no sure thing at the moment) he may have to do so via the KHL like Radulov did.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

They are facts. I have supported him and I still do to some degree. You need to pay attention a bit more. Saying that I felt he was going to be late on the maturity scale (NHL player maturity that is) but he goes on LTIR right around his prime (age 26) are facts. The timing of this is not good when you consider he is 26 and should be a fully matured as a NHL player. I have my doubts he bust out on our team bud.

I don't think he sucks like others do but at this stage, I feel he needs a change. Maybe he can bust out on another team without our fan base following him around like a black cloud all the time. Not all players can overcome this type of pressure and how our fan base has been watching for him to make his next mistake.

So when you say they are facts, is there an actual source regarding the claim he’s on LTIR due to mental issues?

I haven’t seen it. Maybe there is but seems important if it’s factual.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

I no think Drouin will be back, with a better wrist too.

I don’t know if he’ll breakout though. Just kinda be his usual self.

 

[abo9]

. Tampa had a really bad d at that time…stralman, coburn, stustr, nesterov, dotchin. I think Yzerman just built his contender team on a long term. Sometime its better to take one step behind and 2 upfront. If Tampa win today its because of Yzerman and Brisebois add a little touch. Then. Drouin was maybe a cancer. But sometimes. Some youngs players have attitude problem. We can believe he will improve of adapt. Clearly he didnt. Im not saying Bergevin won this deal. He clearly lose it. But to say at that time. Drouin will bust. Its a little unfair

Well then c'early it was a bad move from day 1, because Montreal had a worst left side on D.

What I will always remember from that trade was that it was the years where MB was so insistent on "KARAKTER", and then he acquired Drouin.

Both WANTED to come back. And both were basically told "nah move along."

Markov was "over-the-hill" to Bergevin... despite us going into that season Karl f***ing Alzner. We also dressed Jordie Benn for 77 games, Joe Morrow for 38 games, David Schlemko for 37 games, Jakub Jerabek for 25 games, and Brett Lernout for 18 games. Meanwhile, Markov posted 33 points in the KHL, leading his team to the Gargarin Cup.

Radulov... he tried to play hardball with... which is something he seems to do with players he doesn't really want (ie: Subban). Radulov knew what he was worse and left. Bergevin probably thought Radulov owed him something for bringing him back to the league... which is just stupid on his part. And it sucks because Radulov is an actual consistent playoff performer as well. Pretty stupid decision from Bergevin signing Price to a massive contract, trading for Drouin, and then letting a good goal scorer go. One of the stupidest off-seasons I can remember.

Never understood that part of MB's reign. He wanted Character... he got Drouin. He was going all in... loses his best D and his best forward for a ridiculous money/term difference.

Each decision was contradictory to the next, it set us back 10 years. We're still stuck with a bad LD and we're in the middle of a rebuild...

 

[Habs Halifax]

So when you say they are facts, is there an actual source regarding the claim he’s on LTIR due to mental issues?

I haven’t seen it. Maybe there is but seems important if it’s factual.

Facts I was talking about was me talking about him being late on the NHL maturity scale (before this year) and the other fact is he goes on LTIR. Not claiming he is on LTIR due to mental issues but I believe that is likely true

 

[Habs Halifax]

Well then c'early it was a bad move from day 1, because Montreal had a worst left side on D.

What I will always remember from that trade was that it was the years where MB was so insistent on "KARAKTER", and then he acquired Drouin.





Never understood that part of MB's reign. He wanted Character... he got Drouin. He was going all in... loses his best D and his best forward for a ridiculous money/term difference.

Each decision was contradictory to the next, it set us back 10 years. We're still stuck with a bad LD and we're in the middle of a rebuild...

I believe most though Drouin was on the way up after his age 20 playoffs and age 21 season. The issue he stalled

 

[Hins77]

I believe most though Drouin was on the way up after his age 20 playoffs and age 21 season. The issue he stalled

Yeah but according to many posters here, they all knew Drouin was going to stalled. Lol. And thats probably the same people would be cheering to have a 70/80 pts winger

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yeah but according to many posters here, they all knew Drouin was going to stalled. Lol. And thats probably the same people would be cheering to have a 70/80 pts winger

I honestly feel he has a 60-80 pts season in him but only if he is mixed in the right forward group as a soft/skilled winger. I don't see it happening with the Habs at this stage.

 

[Laurentide]

Well then c'early it was a bad move from day 1, because Montreal had a worst left side on D.

What I will always remember from that trade was that it was the years where MB was so insistent on "KARAKTER", and then he acquired Drouin.

It was a horrible trade. LHD was a position of need and we gave away our best prospect at that position in order to get a winger, a position at which we were already more than deep enough. Then we compounded the error by attempting to convert that winger into a center.

 

[abo9]

Yeah but according to many posters here, they all knew Drouin was going to stalled. Lol. And thats probably the same people would be cheering to have a 70/80 pts winger

I believe most though Drouin was on the way up after his age 20 playoffs and age 21 season. The issue he stalled

So according to you guys, no one was questioning his character after holding up so long in Tampa?

The "Drouin's Mom basement" joke was from that time in Tampa.... most people thought he had an extra gear but I think a sizeable portion also questioned his attitude...

 

[Habs Halifax]

So according to you guys, no one was questioning his character after holding up so long in Tampa?

The "Drouin's Mom basement" joke was from that time in Tampa.... most people thought he had an extra gear but I think a sizeable portion also questioned his attitude...

I don't think it's a character issue. I think it's an issue of him being a soft/skilled forward on a team with too many of those types.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I don't think it's a character issue. I think it's an issue of him being a soft/skilled forward on a team with too many of those types.

N'importe quoi.

It didn't stop Caufield from performing.

 

[Habs Halifax]

N'importe quoi.

It didn't stop Caufield from performing.

I just posted something about that in the GDT. Tampa's forwards are constantly moving their feet and it's tough to pin along the walls. I said Drouin needs to take notice and Caufield does it well. Great timing

 

[goforit]

I don't think it's a character issue. I think it's an issue of him being a soft/skilled forward on a team with too many of those types.

I like how it's never the player's fault if he's not delivering. Imagine how many superstars a team would have if it wasn't of the coach, the teamates, the GM, the doctor, the girlfriend, etc!

 

[Habs Halifax]

I like how it's never the player's fault if he's not delivering. Imagine how many superstars a team would have if it wasn't of the coach, the teamates, the GM, the doctor, the girlfriend, etc!

It's about soft/skilled forwards and how teams mixed them in. Drouin looks even worse on our team cause we have had too many of those types. You can spin it to what you said if you wish

Context or excuses? Take your pick

 

[abo9]

I don't think it's a character issue. I think it's an issue of him being a soft/skilled forward on a team with too many of those types.

like who? Tatar?
Who are the other soft/skilled players on the team, now and during Drouin's tenure with the team?

Tatar and Galch are the names that pop up... but he would not even play with Tatar.

If anything, Drouin has been an important part of this team because we lacked talent and skill, not because we had too much...

 

[Habs Halifax]

like who? Tatar?
Who are the other soft/skilled players on the team, now and during Drouin's tenure with the team?

Tatar and Galch are the names that pop up... but he would not even play with Tatar.

If anything, Drouin has been an important part of this team because we lacked talent and skill, not because we had too much...

You don't think the Habs had too many soft wingers?