Speculation: Jokinen/Wallace on Waivers

[StormCast]

Fun fact - 8 Carolina players have worn #29. Of those 8, only 1 lasted more than a single season - Tom Kostopoulos.

It's the Bermuda Triangle of numbers on the roster.

 

[garnetpalmetto]

It's the Bermuda Triangle of numbers on the roster.

I think that might be more 18 - Bayda, Boychuk, Hall, Kron, Matsumoto, Recchi, Rucinski, Yelle, Zigomanis.

Or maybe it's 8 - Boughner, Cullen, Gleason, O'Sullivan, Ozolinsh, Sanderson, Spacek, Westgarth

 

[tarheelhockey]

The amount of people up in arms about waving Wallace is flat out astounding to me. Does no one watch the guy play when he isn't throwing his one big hit a game? Zero hands, zero speed, zero hockey sense. That's why he's a 28 years old and still on a 2 way contract. Guy has 1 point in 21 games and that wasn't even using his stick.

You say that as if he doesn't really hit all that often, but he has the highest rate of hits on the team. And that's more impressive when you consider he's skating 4th-line minutes with minimal opportunity for gimme hits in offensive-zone situations. On a team that's absolutely warm-butter soft, he's one of the few players who seems to relish a physical role.

I'm not sure what he's supposed to be doing out there that he hasn't done. He's a 4th-liner and plays like a 4th-liner.

 

[Mr Whipple]

I'm thinking there is more to this than just clearing some cap space for a move and getting read of dead weight. I'm thinking more it is a message to the team to get their act together and start playing to the level they should be again.

Otherwise, JR probably could have waited to shop Jokinen and at least get something back for him. But the message needed sent now. The country club atmosphere is over with. You aren't safe just because you're all buddies. Step it up, or expect more moves like this.

 

[Vagrant]

Tim Wallace has been painfully overrated around here. He's a low rent version of what Craig Adams was for this team back in the day. Really no need to be upset at his departure. We did okay without Tim Conboy too. He of the DEL.

 

[Joe McGrath]

You say that as if he doesn't really hit all that often, but he has the highest rate of hits on the team. And that's more impressive when you consider he's skating 4th-line minutes with minimal opportunity for gimme hits in offensive-zone situations. On a team that's absolutely warm-butter soft, he's one of the few players who seems to relish a physical role.

I'm not sure what he's supposed to be doing out there that he hasn't done. He's a 4th-liner and plays like a 4th-liner.

I know he throws his body around plenty, which is a good thing, but people get caught up when he really tags someone. That's all well and good, but that's all he can do. He has no idea what he's doing with the puck, away from the puck, in his own end, etc. Hes an AHLer and plays like an AHLer.

 

[Nordique]

Something big already went down. We extended Semin, and now we are jettisoning Jokinen's $3 million for next season before anyone realizes there's a chance he's washed up.

At 29 years of age? I don't see the guy play everynight, tell us whats up with him?

 

[Mr Whipple]

You say that as if he doesn't really hit all that often, but he has the highest rate of hits on the team. And that's more impressive when you consider he's skating 4th-line minutes with minimal opportunity for gimme hits in offensive-zone situations. On a team that's absolutely warm-butter soft, he's one of the few players who seems to relish a physical role.

I'm not sure what he's supposed to be doing out there that he hasn't done. He's a 4th-liner and plays like a 4th-liner.

Yes, he's the perfect 4th-liner and what we've desperately been needing to put there. And paid like a 4th-liner to boot.

A dime a dozen? Yeah, that too. But amazingly we've never really had many players like him to fill the role like we should have.

I'd rather see both Wallace and Hall on the 4th line together, at least if we only are using the current players on the roster. I'm okay if we continue to move the team to be more like that. So yeah, I'll be upset if we lose Wallace, but only if we don't really replace him with someone else who is big and can hit without being a liability, and especially if we continue to keep a bunch of guys on the 4th line who don't really fit there instead. So to me it isn't so much about Wallace himself, but rather who we end up having on the 4th line.

 

[nobuddy]

Yes, he's the perfect 4th-liner and what we've desperately been needing to put there. And paid like a 4th-liner to boot.

A dime a dozen? Yeah, that too. But amazingly we've never really had many players like him to fill the role like we should have.

I'd rather see both Wallace and Hall on the 4th line together, at least if we only are using the current players on the roster. I'm okay if we continue to move the team to be more like that. So yeah, I'll be upset if we lose Wallace, but only if we don't really replace him with someone else who is big and can hit without being a liability, and especially if we continue to keep a bunch of guys on the 4th line who don't really fit there instead. So to me it isn't so much about Wallace himself, but rather who we end up having on the 4th line.

Agreed 100%. Waiving Wallace is a very bad move.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I know he throws his body around plenty, which is a good thing, but people get caught up when he really tags someone. That's all well and good, but that's all he can do. He has no idea what he's doing with the puck, away from the puck, in his own end, etc. Hes an AHLer and plays like an AHLer.

If he had puck skill AND hit like that, he'd be Tuomo Ruutu and making five times as much money.

Now that I realize LaRose is back I'm not really annoyed by his waiver, but I'm not really getting the hate for him either. He's done exactly what was asked of him according to Muller's vision of the 4th line, and filled a role that nobody else came close to filling until we got Ruutu and Hall into the lineup. What did he do to get in the doghouse?

 

[Vagrant]

At 29 years of age? I don't see the guy play everynight, tell us whats up with him?

Jokinen has always been a streaky scorer. He's invaluable when he's clicking and virtually useless when his confidence is busted. To this point this season, he hasn't gone on his traditional hot streak and it reflects poorly on his overall numbers. He seems like a very emotional guy and seems like he needs to be wanted in a valuable role in order to be productive. When he was penciled in on the 3rd line for us, he sort of mailed it in. I fully expect, when he does get claimed, for him to be a productive scorer with his new team because it's likely he will be invigorated by a new opportunity the same way he was when he came from Tampa Bay to Carolina and from Dallas to Tampa Bay. When he's playing with a bit of a chip on his shoulder, he's a valuable secondary scorer. However, it seems important that his coach really has his back and I don't really feel like Mueller was ever a fan of his game to be frank. He's not physical and he makes his bones on the powerplay and in a meritocracy like Mueller is trying to endorse, you can't skate through your minutes 5 on 5 and then expect to be an integral piece of the PP.

 

[Mr Whipple]

If he had puck skill AND hit like that, he'd be Tuomo Ruutu and making five times as much money.

Now that I realize LaRose is back I'm not really annoyed by his waiver, but I'm not really getting the hate for him either. He's done exactly what was asked of him according to Muller's vision of the 4th line, and filled a role that nobody else came close to filling until we got Ruutu and Hall into the lineup. What did he do to get in the doghouse?

I think too many people get caught up in goals and assists stats. If a player doesn't score goals, or set them up for others, then they shouldn't be in the NHL. The problem is that ignores the role players that are out there to do the other things that need to be done, and can be just as important indirectly.

And your first line sums it all up. It would be nice to have four lines full of goal scorers and playmakers, but this isn't an All Star team and they're in a league with a salary cap. So that's impossible.

 

[faulkingdynamic]

My two cents worth, Jokinen's day were numbered when Muller took over. He is a terrible fit for Muller's style. Beyond that, he was a posterboy for Muller's out of shape player banter over the last two seasons, he got tossed out of the circle like it was his job, and he was never very tough to play against thru the neutral zone.

I think he can still be a useful player but the writing was on the wall when Muller and McLean took over. I'm still under the opinion that he should have been shopped hard in the offseason but maybe Ruutu's health changed that plan.

 

[bleedgreen]

id assume everyone wants us to take a contract back and jr is being pro active on the semin/budget issue and trying to clear space before taking a contract back. im sure hes looked around before doing this. i get as annoyed as anyone at jr, but he does his job. he doesnt just throw people on waivers for kicks.

 

[Joe McGrath]

If he had puck skill AND hit like that, he'd be Tuomo Ruutu and making five times as much money.

Now that I realize LaRose is back I'm not really annoyed by his waiver, but I'm not really getting the hate for him either. He's done exactly what was asked of him according to Muller's vision of the 4th line, and filled a role that nobody else came close to filling until we got Ruutu and Hall into the lineup. What did he do to get in the doghouse?

It's not hate for the guy, it's some of the responses about how dumb it is to waive him and how he will definitely get claimed. This is going to be what, his 4th time waived in about 2 years? Ruutu's back to presumably fill the physical void and Hall is just a better player at his position.

I think Wallace has been in the doghouse since the Game where he and Sanguinetti stared at each other while each were within less than a door of a guy tapping one into an empty net. I want to say it was the Florida game.

 

[Vagrant]

Intangibles are great if the intangibles are multi-faceted as opposed to singular. Wallace does nothing with the exception of the occasional hit. He's not spectacular defensively. He's not spectacular offensively either. He doesn't fight. He goes out and plays a hard shift and tries, but that isn't the only thing you need at the NHL level. You need guys that can play the game. I think the level of effort he shows is refreshing as well, but what is effort without the ability to execute? Same criticism applies to Westgarth, who falls into the trap of believing he's a hockey player at times too.

 

[Anton Babchuk]

I think too many people get caught up in goals and assists stats. If a player doesn't score goals, or set them up for others, then they shouldn't be in the NHL. The problem is that ignores the role players that are out there to do the other things that need to be done, and can be just as important indirectly.

I think too many people get caught up in hit totals. If a player launches himself at others, they should be in the NHL, even if they are mediocre at best defensively and provide zero offense and were signed to a two-way contract as a UFA and nobody wanted them on waivers earlier in the year (yet are FOR SURE going to get claimed this time after such a stellar performance ). The problem is that it ignores that merely possessing a single NHL-level attribute isn't enough to contribute winning a hockey game and that more should be expected even from bottom six players.

The idea that what Tim Wallace does is just as important as putting a puck into the other team's net is absurd.

 

[Vagrant]

id assume everyone wants us to take a contract back and jr is being pro active on the semin/budget issue and trying to clear space before taking a contract back. im sure hes looked around before doing this. i get as annoyed as anyone at jr, but he does his job. he doesnt just throw people on waivers for kicks.

This. The trade deadline is about a week away. This move is proactive in clearing space, even if we lose Jokinen for nothing, and we'll have an awareness of if we'll have a bit more room to work with prior to any 11th hour deals that may materialize for a defender. You don't want to be hamstrung by a player that you feel isn't helping your club this close to the deadline. If he can be swept away, his minimal production will not be missed and it will allow us to take a good player, bad contract option as a rental for the stretch run. Mike Komisarek perhaps? Who knows.

 

[stakesishigh]

Out of curiousity, how much Center has Jussi Jokinen played in his career?

 

[nobuddy]

Right, so because all Wallace could do was hit and be a physical force, we should go back to having a 4th line that does.... nothing. Because we all know how well that was working before

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

The amount of people up in arms about waving Wallace is flat out astounding to me. Does no one watch the guy play when he isn't throwing his one big hit a game? Zero hands, zero speed, zero hockey sense. That's why he's a 28 years old and still on a 2 way contract. Guy has 1 point in 21 games and that wasn't even using his stick.

We're not up in arms, it's just surprise. Muller wanted a big, physical 4th line, and Wallace fit that description of a big, physical, 4th liner.

When Wallace was skating with Skinner and J. Staal, it was clearly evident why he was in the AHL. Couldn't skate, no hockey sense to speak of, couldn't even keep up with the play and get a low percentage shot off (the LaRose special). But he's not asked to do any of that on the 4th line, only to be tough to play against and to go dish out boarderline suspendable hits every other shift.

If LaRose is taking his place... that's odd, because LaRose is small and slow and not physical at all. Our 10 minute hodgepodge 4th line continues.

 

[Joe McGrath]

We're not up in arms, it's just surprise. Muller wanted a big, physical 4th line, and Wallace fit that description of a big, physical, 4th liner.

When Wallace was skating with Skinner and J. Staal, it was clearly evident why he was in the AHL. Couldn't skate, no hockey sense to speak of, couldn't even keep up with the play and get a low percentage shot off (the LaRose special). But he's not asked to do any of that on the 4th line, only to be tough to play against and to go dish out boarderline suspendable hits every other shift.

If LaRose is taking his place... that's odd, because LaRose is small and slow and not physical at all. Our 10 minute hodgepodge 4th line continues.

Adam Hall is taking his place. Adam Hall is the 4th line right wing. He does everything Tim Wallace does better than Tim Wallace (or at least he used to).

 

[Mr Whipple]

The idea that what Tim Wallace does is just as important as putting a puck into the other team's net is absurd.

Yes, because having a roster full of Charmin soft players who can score goals will win so many games!

Having a 4th line that can go out, hit people, wear and grind the other team down, opens things up for the goal scoring lines to go out there and... *gasp* score goals!

So, uh, yeah, it is kinda important if you want to actually score goals.

And btw, I've never said I'm upset about waiving Wallace or that he'll definitely be claimed. Just that I'll be upset if we keep having to fill in the 4th line with players who don't have that physical edge that I, and according to most reports Muller, want to see there.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I think too many people get caught up in hit totals. If a player launches himself at others, they should be in the NHL, even if they are mediocre at best defensively and provide zero offense and were signed to a two-way contract as a UFA and nobody wanted them on waivers earlier in the year (yet are FOR SURE going to get claimed this time after such a stellar performance ). The problem is that it ignores that merely possessing a single NHL-level attribute isn't enough to contribute winning a hockey game and that more should be expected even from bottom six players.

The idea that what Tim Wallace does is just as important as putting a puck into the other team's net is absurd.

But his competition for that roster spot is Drayson Bowman and Kevin Westgarth, who also have minimal offensive impact.

I'd lobby for Bowman to be first in line for that spot for development's sake, but I'm pretty sure you wrote him off as garbage a long time ago. Westgarth doesn't even have an argument beyond nepotism. So doesn't it pretty well follow that you would want Wallace in that position over Bowman and Westgarth?

 

[Anton Babchuk]

Yes, because having a roster full of Charmin soft players who can score goals will win so many games!

Having a 4th line that can go out, hit people, wear and grind the other team down, opens things up for the goal scoring lines to go out there and... *gasp* score goals! :amazed

So, uh, yeah, it is kinda important if you want to actually score goals.

And btw, I've never said I'm upset about waiving Wallace or that he'll definitely be claimed. Just that I'll be upset if we keep having to fill in the 4th line with players who don't have that physical edge that I, and according to most reports Muller, want to see there.

This is utter nonsense. Tim Wallace rarely touches the ice against the players that the "soft goalscorers" play against, so how is he wearing them down? Are you seriously suggesting that the success of players like Staal and Semin is dependent even in the slightest on some 4th liner throwing a hit against the other team's 4th line and bottom pairing D?