John Tavares vs Brad Marchand

[LeafsNation75]

This is true.
Did Capuano also inflate his numbers?

Under Capuano is when Tavares finished 2nd in 2014-2015 for the Art Ross Trophy.

 

[olli]

This is true.
Did Capuano also inflate his numbers?

No he didnt. If you want to compare them since Capuano was fired then JT has 118 points in 117 games while Marchand has 127 points in 101 games. Trying to argue that Tavares is better than Marchand is even more ridiculous than arguing Kyle Turris is better than Kadri. When comparing players the last 2 seasons are way more relevant than what either player did 3+ years ago.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

I think Tavares will show this year that hes the better player.

 

[Sky04]

I think Tavares will show this year that hes the better player.

Not looking good so far champ.

It's not like Tavares didn't have offensive support last year, Bailey and Lee had 70 and 60 points, Barzal outscored him and Eberle had 60 points as well and Tavares still didn't outproduce Marchand.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Not looking good so far champ.

It's not like Tavares didn't have offensive support last year, Bailey and Lee had 70 and 60 points, Barzal outscored him and Eberle had 60 points as well and Tavares still didn't outproduce Marchand.

Bailey and Lee <<< Pastarnak and Bergeron.

Bergeron was talked about as a legit top Hart Candidate last year before the injury kind of derailed him. Marchand is a great player but he's also in a much better situation.

Seems like there's an axe to grind here? He might still outscore Tavares but Tavares is a center and being a good player isn't limited to just points. Having an all time great two-way player like Bergeron next to you isn't a benefit JT has, as a Winger that's gotta be helpful for Marchand to rack up the points. I think JT will have a better year this year in TO compared to last year.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Bailey and Lee <<< Pastarnak and Bergeron.

Bergeron was talked about as a legit top Hart Candidate last year before the injury kind of derailed him. Marchand is a great player but he's also in a much better situation.

Seems like there's an axe to grind here? He might still outscore Tavares but Tavares is a center and being a good player isn't limited to just points. Having an all time great two-way player like Bergeron next to you isn't a benefit JT has, as a Winger that's gotta be helpful for Marchand to rack up the points. I think JT will have a better year this year in TO compared to last year.

One thing Tavares finally has is a winger of Marner's capability which he never had with the Islanders. If anything Tavares was the main reason Matt Moulson and Kyle Okposo got overpaid and have not been the same since they left the Islanders as UFA's, especially Molson who is in the AHL because he's overpaid and stop scoring goals like he once did.

 

[bossram]

I agree with Shirokov's argument here.

Tavares was good enough to inflate far lesser players numbers and got them overpaid. Marchand plays with arguably the best two-way player of the modern era and has had such talents as Seguin and Pastrnak on his opposite wing.

 

[Yasuo]

I agree with Shirokov's argument here.

Tavares was good enough to inflate far lesser players numbers and got them overpaid. Marchand plays with arguably the best two-way player of the modern era and has had such talents as Seguin and Pastrnak on his opposite wing.

Marchand look like a 100 points player now. I don't see how it's close. He's a beast defensively as well

 

[EscapeGoat]

Marchand look like a 100 points player now. I don't see how it's close. He's a beast defensively as well

Interesting... hasn't sniffed 90 yet. Great analysis.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

I agree with Shirokov's argument here.

Tavares was good enough to inflate far lesser players numbers and got them overpaid. Marchand plays with arguably the best two-way player of the modern era and has had such talents as Seguin and Pastrnak on his opposite wing.

Also talents like Connolly and Caron.

Interesting... hasn't sniffed 90 yet. Great analysis.

Not the best try here.

 

[Future]

This poll is once again another great example of the hockey knowledge of the average HF user.

Living in a world where people seriously think Brad Marchand is a better hockey player than John Tavares.

YIKES.

 

[Emerz]

This poll is once again another great example of the hockey knowledge of the average HF user.

Living in a world where people seriously think Brad Marchand is a better hockey player than John Tavares.

YIKES.

How dare they think a guy with 103 points in his past 82 regular season games is better than Tavares. Even this season, with Tavares having a great start... he still has less points than Marchand.

 

[Master P]

This poll is once again another great example of the hockey knowledge of the average HF user.

Living in a world where people seriously think Brad Marchand is a better hockey player than John Tavares.

YIKES.

I mean he is though

 

[Future]

How dare they think a guy with 103 points in his past 82 regular season games is better than Tavares. Even this season, with Tavares having a great start... he still has less points than Marchand.

And if that isn't a great indicator that stats don't tell the entire story then I don't know what is. Any team would be worse off if they gave up Tavares for Marchand, period. No sane Leafs fan would even think about trading Tavares for Marchand straight up.

It also helps to watch the games and watch the players play hockey. If you're only looking at points then you'd take Marchand over Matthews and Matthews is on a different level over that manlet, literally and figuratively.

 

[Master P]

And if that isn't a great indicator that stats don't tell the entire story then I don't know what is. Any team would be worse off if they gave up Tavares for Marchand, period. No sane Leafs fan would even think about trading Tavares for Marchand straight up.

It also helps to watch the games and watch the players play hockey. If you're only looking at points then you'd take Marchand over Matthews and Matthews is on a different level over that manlet, literally and figuratively.

 

[Emerz]

And if that isn't a great indicator that stats don't tell the entire story then I don't know what is. Any team would be worse off if they gave up Tavares for Marchand, period. No sane Leafs fan would even think about trading Tavares for Marchand straight up.

It also helps to watch the games and watch the players play hockey. If you're only looking at points then you'd take Marchand over Matthews and Matthews is on a different level over that manlet, literally and figuratively.

Didn't seem to be on another level last playoffs while Marchand tore up the Leafs, figuratively or literally.

 

[Halla]

No he didnt. If you want to compare them since Capuano was fired then JT has 118 points in 117 games while Marchand has 127 points in 101 games. Trying to argue that Tavares is better than Marchand is even more ridiculous than arguing Kyle Turris is better than Kadri. When comparing players the last 2 seasons are way more relevant than what either player did 3+ years ago.

yeah this works quite a bit in marchands favor considering he wasnt even in the same universe as JT up until then right?

the turris vs kadri thing is an awful comparabler as well. kadri has been better recently AND overall for his career, so no, it isnt like JT vs marchand

 

[Halla]

How dare they think a guy with 103 points in his past 82 regular season games is better than Tavares. Even this season, with Tavares having a great start... he still has less points than Marchand.

Tavares 6 goals, Marchand 0 goals

fun fact marchand has 0 pts against non lotto teams from last year.

 

[Emerz]

Tavares 6 goals, Marchand 0 goals

fun fact marchand has 0 pts against non lotto teams from last year.

Your sample size is 3 games, Marchand has 1 game without points lol, same with Tavares, against a lottery team if we want to use your logic...

 

[Future]

Didn't seem to be on another level last playoffs while Marchand tore up the Leafs, figuratively or literally.

You're right, I'm sure no Bruins fans would rather have Matthews right now. Marchand's 4 assists against Buffalo are just irreplaceable.

 

[Emerz]

You're right, I'm sure no Bruins fans would rather have Matthews right now. Marchand's 4 assists against Buffalo are just irreplaceable.

Why is your sample size 4 assists against Buffalo? How about 103 points in past 82 or 17 points in his last 12 playoff games? This thread isn't even about Matthews my man.

 

[Future]

Why is your sample size 4 assists against Buffalo? How about 103 points in past 82 or 17 points in his last 12 playoff games? This thread isn't even about Matthews my man.

My point is just because he has those numbers doesn't make him a better hockey player than Tavares.

 

[olli]

yeah this works quite a bit in marchands favor considering he wasnt even in the same universe as JT up until then right?

the turris vs kadri thing is an awful comparabler as well. kadri has been better recently AND overall for his career, so no, it isnt like JT vs marchand

From October 2015 to the Capuano firing (January 17 2017) JT has 102 points in 120 games while Marchand has 104 points in 124 games playing 1:16 less (with probably a lot less PP toi although I can't find the stats). Using a bigger sample size of the past 3 years JT has 226 points in 241 games playing 20:06 per game while Marchand has 238 points in 228 games playing 19:12 per game. JT was slightly better in 15-16, but for the past 2 years Marchand has clearly been much better at everything except face-offs. It doesn't matter how much better JT was before that. Jiri Hudler had 76 points 78 games in 2014-15, but now he's busy snorting cocaine on airplanes.

 

[Sky04]

My point is just because he has those numbers doesn't make him a better hockey player than Tavares.

Yeah him being better than his numbers makes him better than Tavares who's only as good as he produces, thanks for trying.

 

[Sky04]

Tavares 6 goals, Marchand 0 goals

fun fact marchand has 0 pts against non lotto teams from last year.

Fun fact, Marchand outscored Tavares in 16 less games. Matthews was well behind too. But Toronto fans only come out when sample size is small like how Nylander was elite after 8 games last season