Joe Sakic - Record as Colorado Avalanche GM - Part II (Updates in First Post)

[StayAtHomeAv]

I wouldn't hope that dumpster fire upon anyone, let alone someone I would like to see succeed.

 

[McMetal]

Montreal is a mess, but a full on rebuild plus some good drafting could have them back to decent shape in 3-5 years. Not sure if Roy is the guy to handle such an endeavor though.

 

[Pokecheque]

I wouldn't hope that dumpster fire upon anyone, let alone someone I would like to see succeed.

Well it's not like he's going to get a plum assignment. He'll have his work cut out for him no matter where he goes.

And really though, is the situation in Montreal that much different than the one Roy walked into in Colorado?

They have a legit starting goaltender, a big, talented winger from another country as their captain, a highly-touted top line center who is probably better as a winger and will likely be traded, a big defenseman who was once hailed as a #1 blueliner but is better suited as a #2, and a prospect base that isn't up to snuff.

All that and they'll likely be getting a top pick in this year's draft.

 

[Foppa2118]

I go away for a week or so and come back to see we're still complaining about Roy for some reason.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Just like how we are complaining about Bednar again in the other thread(s)

 

[Foppa2118]

Just like how we are complaining about Bednar again in the other thread(s)

Bednar is the coach of the Avs right now. Roy was the coach two years ago. They're not at all the same.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Roy, Bednar, let's back to the main complaint, the moron in charge of both.

 

[Pokecheque]

The discussion was whether or not the Avs would be better off if they had stuck with Roy instead of Sakic. I don't see what's wrong with discussing that.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

I just cannot understand what a baboon Sakic is with hiring coaches, do not let that man pick a coaching staff ever. Otherwise lately he has been doing OK, not great but an improvement over the madness that was his first few years, but then again the bar has been set really low in the first place.

 

[Pokecheque]

I just cannot understand what a baboon Sakic is with hiring coaches, do not let that man pick a coaching staff ever. Otherwise lately he has been doing OK, not great but an improvement over the madness that was his first few years, but then again the bar has been set really low in the first place.

Jaysus, the man has picked ONE COACH so far. And had to do so in very short order.

And while I understand why people are blasting Sakic for retaining Bednar after last season's disaster, but I don't understand how they can be so down on the decision to hire him in the first place. The man had an impeccable track record. Maybe in hindsight Boughner would've been a better choice but I don't blame Sakic for going with the guy who won ECHL and AHL championships.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Sakic is also the guy who thought it would be a great idea to keep Tim Army around for years. It goes beyond Bednar. The Avs have been among the worst coached teams in the league for as long as Sakic has been the GM. I wouldn't expect much when Bednar is eventually replaced.

 

[Pokecheque]

Sakic is also the guy who thought it would be a great idea to keep Tim Army around for years. It goes beyond Bednar. The Avs have been among the worst coached teams in the league for as long as Sakic has been the GM. I wouldn't expect much when Bednar is eventually replaced.

I don't think the decision to keep one assistant around too long counts as some kind of track record when it comes to coaching. It's just as easy to say that Roy was allowed to assemble his own staff and apparently decided to keep Army around his entire tenure, and Bednar didn't have time to select his own staff when he arrived. The only coaching hire Roy reportedly had no say in was Nolan Pratt.

EDIT: Mind you I do believe this organization is ridiculously cheap and insular when it comes to coaches (among other personnel decisions) and I have plenty of reason to believe Sakic's a bad GM, but I just don't know if there's enough there to really slag his coaching hires. Bad coaching predates him by quite the margin. He was still a player when that went south.

 

[Foppa2118]

The discussion was whether or not the Avs would be better off if they had stuck with Roy instead of Sakic. I don't see what's wrong with discussing that.

Nothing wrong with discussing any subject if you like. I don't like it when people try to tell others here not to talk about certain subjects, or obsess with staying OT in every thread, so I'm not trying to tell you to stop talking about it.

It was just a knee jerk reaction after being gone for a while, and coming back to see the same subject rehashed again. This isn't meant towards you really, but I've personally never seen any solid reasoning behind the bulk of the Roy complaints. It's mostly driven by conspiracy theories of what type of players Roy wanted, and uneducated opinions on tactical deficiencies he employed. Both of which have been proven to be incorrect on multiple occasions.

The subject of whether they'd be better off with one or the other is certainly a relevant topic though I agree. I'll try to stiffle my knee jerk reactions, they don't much help anything.

 

[Nalens Oga]

Joe Sakic is like a contractor your family hires because he's got connections to your family and think you'll get a discount. Months go by and he's only touched a few lighting fixtures, then you politely ask and the guy brings in one of his teen interns to help him out and show that he's done something but it's a half-assed job. Then he says he has other jobs for the next month and is booked and you're just left angry and disappointed at why you hired him without looking around.

 

[Pokecheque]

I actually agree and that's kinda why I want to see Roy get another shot with no restrictions whatsoever. Let's see what he can do. If nothing else it'll be one hell of a wild ride.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

A big NO for hiring Roy as the GM. This organization needs to stay far far away from anyone with ties to them, unless its a slam dunk like hiring Q as the coach again. Bring in new blood with a fresh perspective, not someone who is used to the Avalanche way.

 

[Pokecheque]

A big NO for hiring Roy as the GM. This organization needs to stay far far away from anyone with ties to them, unless its a slam dunk like hiring Q as the coach again. Bring in new blood with a fresh perspective, not someone who is used to the Avalanche way.

Well I didn't mean for that team to be the Avs. I'm thinking either Montreal or whatever franchise ends up landing in QC.

 

[Pokecheque]

I wonder how much sway MacFarland USA has in the organization. You NEVER hear from him but I can't imagine he's just some glorified cap guy like Sherman was.

 

[AvsCOL]

I'd just like to say, for all the misery he has put fans though in the past year or so, Sakic just got a great return for Duchene. Sure, there's no Chabot, but there's a lot of good building pieces, and I think this Girard kid is going to be something special. Add in Bowers, Kamenev, and three more picks, and Sakic is actually heading in the right direction.

I would've preferred a Serg/Chabot/Hanifin return obviously, but this is a very good consolation.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

I'd just like to say, for all the misery he has put fans though in the past year or so, Sakic just got a great return for Duchene. Sure, there's no Chabot, but there's a lot of good building pieces, and I think this Girard kid is going to be something special. Add in Bowers, Kamenev, and three more picks, and Sakic is actually heading in the right direction.

I would've preferred a Serg/Chabot/Hanifin return obviously, but this is a very good consolation.

And Dutch is out East, instead of in Nashville, where he'd likely burn us constantly.

 

[Pokecheque]

Everyone wins in this trade at first glance. Duchene goes where he wanted to go, Nashville gets their coveted 2nd line center, Avs get much-needed organizational depth.

Pierre Dorion said the groundwork for this trade was initiated by Chris MacFarland and Nashville's assistant GM, who both happened to run into one another scouting a college game (I think that's what he said). If so that's some great work from the guy and it answers a questions I posited earlier in this thread.

 

[21]

This deal was great (could be legendary trade with some luck on development) most the others weren't, simple as that.

ROR was a complicated case but the return has been disappointing so far.

I don't blame him for the Roy drama though, I would most probably have hired Roy myself. ;-) The Roy failure was a very painful one for all of us remembering the past.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

This deal was great (could be legendary trade with some luck on development) most the others weren't, simple as that.

ROR was a complicated case but the return has been disappointing so far.

I don't blame him for the Roy drama though, I would most probably have hired Roy myself. ;-) The Roy failure was a very painful one for all of us remembering the past.

Very much debatable.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Everyone wins in this trade at first glance. Duchene goes where he wanted to go, Nashville gets their coveted 2nd line center, Avs get much-needed organizational depth.

Pierre Dorion said the groundwork for this trade was initiated by Chris MacFarland and Nashville's assistant GM, who both happened to run into one another scouting a college game (I think that's what he said). If so that's some great work from the guy and it answers a questions I posited earlier in this thread.

According to Dorion's press conference this is not accurate. The trade was done between Sakic and Dorion 7-10 days ago but they couldn't get NAS to sign off on it because they couldn't sign Turris. MacFarland and Fenton put it back on the table beacause everybody still wanted it to happen. What really made this trade happened was Turris realizing that him re-signing in OTT was not going to happen as OTT only offered 5 years and they wanted Duchene really bad.

 

[Pokecheque]

Fair enough, I should not have said initiated. But he did a lot of the detail work.