Player Discussion Jimmy Vesey

[Inferno]

Vesey was a disaster for most of this season..however I felt like in the playoffs he was consistently one of our better forwards, particularly when dragging around the corpse of Derek Stepan who was just.....awful.

 

[silverfish]

Vesey was a disaster for most of this season..however I felt like in the playoffs he was consistently one of our better forwards, particularly when dragging around the corpse of Derek Stepan who was just.....awful.

Yeah. This take. How Vesey was good and was "dragging around the corpse of Derek Stepan who was just....awful".

I don't get this take at all. But that's me.

 

[Kaapodonna]

Vesey was a disaster for most of this season..however I felt like in the playoffs he was consistently one of our better forwards, particularly when dragging around the corpse of Derek Stepan who was just.....awful.

I agree. This next year is going to be make or break for him. He didn't have a good enough freshman year to give him the sophomore slump pass. But he did play well in the Po's, even tho he was snake bitten.

 

[Inferno]

Yeah. This take. How Vesey was good and was "dragging around the corpse of Derek Stepan who was just....awful".

I don't get this take at all. But that's me.

thats how i saw it. Nash and Vesey would control the puck, generate zone time, Stepan would touch it, and the play would be dead...it just seemed to play out that way time and time and time again.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

However you want to assess his game throughout the season, I felt that Vesey was improving in small steps the entire year and into the playoffs.

Hes an intelligent player with some good hockey sense and it seemed to me like he was focusing on rounding out his game piece by piece. He seems to pick up a lot of little things and apply it to his game.

His board play improved greatly from the start as did his positional play and forecheck. He had his moments with the puck but it was his play without it that I felt he improved upon drastically, especially in the playoffs.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I just didn't see enough glimpses of being intelligent or creative with the puck last year to have much faith. So reminiscent of a poor man's Parise. Worse skills, less effective motor. But I've been wrong plenty of times.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Damn, I was saying these things earlier in the season, but nah, I was apparently just a hater.

But I definitely do agree that this is a make or break season for Vesey. I was saying this last season. He wasn't good last season, especially for what expectations were. Maybe if he was like an undrafted CHL'er who worked his way up the ranks, it was a fine season, but not for a guy who had a sweepstakes, won the Hobey Baker, went straight from the NCAA's to the NHL.

Last season, Vesey was between a 3rd and 4th liner offensively, and he struggled defensively. I think he could be a solid defensive player, but he wasn't last season. He tried really hard, so AV liked his defensive play. He was probably more of a tweener between not being good enough offensively last season for the 3rd line and not good enough defensively for the 4th line. Thats what I'd call a 13F, so I think Vesey was a 13F last season, despite AV using him differently. I think he very well could settle in as a 9th or 8th forward, which wouldn't be bad. We could use a player of that caliber, but another season like this one, and I don't know what his value is. He's also pretty old for a guy who just finished up his rookie season, not some 19 year old kid who struggled playing against much older players.

 

[silverfish]

Damn, I was saying these things earlier in the season, but nah, I was apparently just a hater.

But I definitely do agree that this is a make or break season for Vesey. I was saying this last season. He wasn't good last season, especially for what expectations were. Maybe if he was like an undrafted CHL'er who worked his way up the ranks, it was a fine season, but not for a guy who had a sweepstakes, won the Hobey Baker, went straight from the NCAA's to the NHL.

Last season, Vesey was between a 3rd and 4th liner offensively, and he struggled defensively. I think he could be a solid defensive player, but he wasn't last season. He tried really hard, so AV liked his defensive play. He was probably more of a tweener between not being good enough offensively last season for the 3rd line and not good enough defensively for the 4th line. Thats what I'd call a 13F, so I think Vesey was a 13F last season, despite AV using him differently. I think he very well could settle in as a 9th or 8th forward, which wouldn't be bad. We could use a player of that caliber, but another season like this one, and I don't know what his value is. He's also pretty old for a guy who just finished up his rookie season, not some 19 year old kid who struggled playing against much older players.

The 'sweepstakes' shouldn't cloud your judgment on him. That's not Vesey's fault, it's the media. Expectations should've never been higher than JV being a middle-6 player in the NHL. Media blew it out of proportion. Not his fault.

Judge the game, not the circus.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Important season for him. He definitely looked better in the PO's than he did for about 75% of the regular season.
Hope that continues.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

The 'sweepstakes' shouldn't cloud your judgment on him. That's not Vesey's fault, it's the media. Expectations should've never been higher than JV being a middle-6 player in the NHL. Media blew it out of proportion. Not his fault.

Judge the game, not the circus.

Take a look back at the thread for rookie expectations last season. I don't think anyone predicted Vesey to have as low of a point total as he had. And the team gets their share of blame because AV would not scratch a player who was pretty unproductive, which was a hard task in our forward group last season.

I really don't blame him for the media circus, but at the same time, I think we gotta separate all that from what he was last season. Why should I expect a 2nd liner out of a guy who put up 27 points in 81 games? Take away his name, why are we are sure he's better than Jensen or even Puempel? I'm not penciling this guy in for anything long term with this team. I think he's a maybe. He needs to prove he's a regular NHL'er, I don't think he's done that yet.

 

[Raspewtin]

I just didn't see enough glimpses of being intelligent or creative with the puck last year to have much faith. So reminiscent of a poor man's Parise. Worse skills, less effective motor. But I've been wrong plenty of times.

It really boils down to this for me

It very well may have been adjusting but my goodness he just looks like an extremely limited player. He drove the net a lot his first month or two and he was the most effective then. He's got to do that because his passing is atrocious and his offensive instincts are just ok.

 

[silverfish]

Take a look back at the thread for rookie expectations last season. I don't think anyone predicted Vesey to have as low of a point total as he had. And the team gets their share of blame because AV would not scratch a player who was pretty unproductive, which was a hard task in our forward group last season.

I really don't blame him for the media circus, but at the same time, I think we gotta separate all that from what he was last season. Why should I expect a 2nd liner out of a guy who put up 27 points in 81 games? Take away his name, why are we are sure he's better than Jensen or even Puempel? I'm not penciling this guy in for anything long term with this team. I think he's a maybe. He needs to prove he's a regular NHL'er, I don't think he's done that yet.

Very cool.

Everybody relax with your expectations please

^ Third post in the thread

 

[silverfish]

I'll eat my crow at the end of the season. He's not going to score on 1/3 of his shots forever.

You said he belongs in the AHL prior to the season starting, so your crow's already in your stomach.

Love ya, Ras

 

[NickyFotiu]

Vesey had a up and down season for sure but 16 goals and 27 points as a rookie who never played a single game in the AHL? That is not horrible. Remember how many adjustments it took guys like Kreider and JT before breaking through. The kid has some real skills but mentally the game was going too fast for him last season. In the playoffs he showed some good skating. He already is a good shooter from the dots on down. Needs to work on controlling the puck on his stick more, improve his passing/anticipation and slowing the game down in his head. I felt he should be sent up to the press box to get a different view of the game for a week or so.

 

[Mikos87]

First 20 games- He played with consistent effort. Took the next 60 off. Showed up for the playoffs.

It's an indictment on the poor leadership inside that locker room.

It's not like the Torts days where they had an emotional leader in the room.

Or during the Richie/MSL era where that was there inside the locker room with AV.

Last year... the highest paid guys gave the least every night. Coaching staff didn't hold them accountable.

Kids developed bad habits.

Goalie bailed them out.

 

[silverfish]

First 20 games- He played with consistent effort. Took the next 60 off. Showed up for the playoffs.

It's an indictment on the poor leadership inside that locker room.

It's not like the Torts days where they had an emotional leader in the room.

Or during the Richie/MSL era where that was there inside the locker room with AV.

Last year... the highest paid guys gave the least every night. Coaching staff didn't hold them accountable.

Kids developed bad habits.

Goalie bailed them out.

Imagine actually believing that Jimmy Vesey had a bad second half of the year because the Rangers locker room lacked leadership.

Wow.

 

[NickyFotiu]

In college my first season my coach played me on the first line for my first few games and I did pretty well mostly by adrenaline but the game was too fast mentally for me and by the end of that season I was on the 4th line lucky to get 1 shift a period. Ugh lol.

 

[007]

Vesey's a bum. No other rookie has ever been inconsistent in the history of the league -- all of them hit the ice at full stride and maintain that level for the rest of their careers. All of them except that bum Vesey.

The kid was fine for his rookie season and I liked what I saw from him -- not great, but fine. Absolutely, I expect more this season, but I haven't seen anything that makes me think he won't deliver.

 

[bl02]

For all the people that are down on vesey did they watch him in the playoffs?
He probably was one of our best forwards for stretches.
I'm not a huge Vesey fan and don't project him to be a first line player but he definitely finished the season on a strong note especially when the stakes got bigger.
His goal and effort in game 5 against the sens was amazing but of course will not be remembered because of the fact we lost the game.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Vesey had a up and down season for sure but 16 goals and 27 points as a rookie who never played a single game in the AHL? That is not horrible. Remember how many adjustments it took guys like Kreider and JT before breaking through. The kid has some real skills but mentally the game was going too fast for him last season. In the playoffs he showed some good skating. He already is a good shooter from the dots on down. Needs to work on controlling the puck on his stick more, improve his passing/anticipation and slowing the game down in his head. I felt he should be sent up to the press box to get a different view of the game for a week or so.

He was also a 23 year old rookie, not exactly young. Is he a finished product, I hope not, but chances are he is pretty close. Bigger issue was without Nash or Step he was absolutely craptastic

 

[NickyFotiu]

He was also a 23 year old rookie, not exactly young. Is he a finished product, I hope not, but chances are he is pretty close. Bigger issue was without Nash or Step he was absolutely craptastic

Age can be a factor in physical/mental maturation but from personal experience the speed difference in the leagues also can be a huge factor. It took Kreider a while. My hope is that he can slow the game down in his head and improve with the puck on his stick. The size, skating, and shooting skills are there.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Imagine actually believing that Jimmy Vesey had a bad second half of the year because the Rangers locker room lacked leadership.

Wow.

I love the "Rangers lacked leadership" argument that is put forth.

My favorite comments are when the Rangers lose a big game, people say McDonagh's not a real captain, even if he didn't play bad. They would just expect him to transform all the players into playing better because he's captain.

The Rangers leadership is fine. Maybe its a little lesser losing two veteran assistant captains, but its still not anything worth questioning. If this team or any player fails, it will not be due to the team's leadership.

 

[hella rights]

Like some others out there my expectations for Vesey were probably too high and can't help but feel somewhat disappointed. Part of it I think is that it's hard for me to point to a part of Vesey's game and say "at least he's got that going for him", like when Kreider struggled early on you could still be encouraged by his speed and ability to physically dominate. It's not clear to me what Vesey's strengths are.

For those who have a better read on his skill set, what do you see as Vesey's strengths? Better still, what player would Vesey compare to if he reaches his potential?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Like some others out there my expectations for Vesey were probably too high and can't help but feel somewhat disappointed. Part of it I think is that it's hard for me to point to a part of Vesey's game and say "at least he's got that going for him", like when Kreider struggled early on you could still be encouraged by his speed and ability to physically dominate. It's not clear to me what Vesey's strengths are.

For those who have a better read on his skill set, what do you see as Vesey's strengths? Better still, what player would Vesey compare to if he reaches his potential?

Chris Higgins maybe?

 

[pld459666]

I prefer to judge players on more than just one season. In fact, I'd give any and every player at least three years to help me understand the player he is and not base that conclusion on one good year followed by a bad year (or vice versa).

Vesey had a year under his belt, it was up and down mostly down, but he's a smart kid, let's see if he can take the lessons learned from 16-17 and get better for 17-18

It still may not tell us the whole story, but it's building a base to draw a fairly accurate conclusion.