seventieslord
Student Of The Game
Mike Babcock blew a 3-2 series lead in the Cup finals, in 2009, to Dan Bylsma.
I'ma just leave that there for everyone to see.
....please tell me you understand why I posted that
Mike Babcock blew a 3-2 series lead in the Cup finals, in 2009, to Dan Bylsma.
I'ma just leave that there for everyone to see.
....please tell me you understand why I posted that
I do, but I don't entirely agree with it.
So tell us, what do you call 2003 if it's not Babckock "taking a mediocre/average team and helping them advance well beyond expectations"?
So tell us, what do you call 2003 if it's not Babckock "taking a mediocre/average team and helping them advance well beyond expectations"?
The 06 Wings lost to an Oilers team who had a prime Pronger and Roloson playing out of his mind playing a tight trap game. Upsets happen all the time.
The Wings got bounced in consecutive years by Pronger who was a monster in those two runs
Only time I've been proud of the Oilers in my life time was that run
Honestly the coaching here is splitting hairs to me personally. And blaming Canadian hero bias for everyone's appraisal of Babcock seems weak.
He is going against Tommy Gorman. Babcock is better than a guy who choached 8 years with a 0.500 record.
I guess regular season records are the end all be all.....I guess basically any coach who has a good wining % and a title with more than 8 years coaching is better than Gorman.
Next.
Tom Gorman ,a coach/GM, was the first to win back-to-back SCs with two different teams,1934-Chicago, 1935 Maroons. Quick turnaround abilities. Innovative forecheck,strength as a coach adapting to the strengths of the players,contrary to Babcock who requires that players adapt to his ''system''.
His system led to one of the most dominating defensive performances in Olympic history in 2014
His system led to one of the most dominating defensive performances in Olympic history in 2014
You can trash Babcock's record all you want, and I agree, he's had some failures along the way, but he's going against another guy with a similarly mixed resume. It about body of work. Babcock's is better than Gorman's.
"Trash Babcock"???
Where have I "trashed" him LOL?
I pointed (correctly IMO) out that his career record in the NHL is no more, or maybe very slightly more impressive than Peter Laviolette. His career is certainly less than Joel Quennville. The graphs above spell that out.
And that relates to his opponent - Tommy Gorman - how?
And how would you rate the quality of the 2014 Olympic hockey coaches from all the competing nations?
Goaltenders/Gardiens de but | ||||||
30 | Martin Brodeur | 6'1 | 205 | New Jersey | Montreal, QC | |
31 | Curtis Joseph | 5'11 | 182 | Edmonton | Keswick, ON | |
33 | Patrick Roy | 6' | 189 | Oct. | Colorado | Quebec City, QC |
Defence/Défense | ||||||
2 | Al MacInnis | 6'2 | 196 | St. Louis | Inverness, NS | |
4 | Scott Stevens | 6'1 | 210 | New Jersey | Kitchener, ON | |
24 | Chris Pronger | 6'6 | 220 | Oct. | St. Louis | Dryden, ON |
37 | Eric Desjardins | 6'1 | 200 | Philadelphia | Rouyn, QC | |
44 | Rob Blake | 6'3 | 215 | Dec. | Los Angeles | Simcoe, ON |
52 | Adam Foote | 6'2 | 205 | Colorado | Toronto, ON | |
77 | Ray Bourque | 5'11 | 215 | Dec. | Boston | Montreal, QC |
Forwards/Avants | ||||||
7 | Rob Zamuner | 6'2 | 205 | Sept. | Tampa Bay | Oakville, ON |
9 | Paul Kariya | 5'10 | 180 | Oct. | Anaheim | Vancouver, BC |
14 | Theoren Fleury | 5'6 | 172 | Calgary | Oxbow, SK | |
16 | Trevor Linden | 6'4 | 210 | Vancouver | Medicine Hat, AB | |
17 | Rod Brind'Amour | 6'1 | 202 | Aug. | Philadelphia | Ottawa, ON |
19 | Steve Yzerman | 5'11 | 180 | Detroit | Cranbrook, BC | |
20 | Joe Sakic | 5'11 | 190 | Colorado | Vancouver, BC | |
25 | Joe Nieuwendyk | 6'1 | 195 | Sept. | Dallas | Oshawa, ON |
27 | Shayne Corson | 6 ' | 201 | Aug. | Montreal | Barrie, ON |
55 | Keith Primeau | 6'6 | 230 | Nov. | Carolina | Toronto, ON |
88 | Eric Lindros | 6'4 | 229 | Feb. | Philadelphia | London, ON |
94 | Brendan Shanahan | 6'3 | 220 | Jan. | Detroit | Mimico, ON |
99 | Wayne Gretzky | 6' | 170 | Jan. | New York Rangers | Brantford, ON |
Gorman's regular season is inferior. But he also wasn't lucky enough to coach good/great teams. He won back to back titles for 2 seperate franchises, neither of which were good at the time. His record in the postseason was 13-8-4, so obviously much better than .500.
Gorman's cup-winning teams both finished 2nd in the regular season, so neither team was weak.
Also, his teams played in, what, three true play-off series? The rest were 2 game total goal series, right?
Where they finished doesn't matter and in fact is a good reflection of Gorman getting more out of less.
I have personally never seen someone contradict themselves in the same sentence, until today.
Poorly worded on my part. The fact of the matter is Gorman took less than stellar rosters compared to the other teams in the NHL at the time and won 2 Cups.
I challenge you or Dreak to bring those Chicago/Maroon teams up that he was coaching and then put them against the Canadians, Rangers and Bruins and tell me what Gorman did wasn't ****ing impressive.
Poorly worded on my part. The fact of the matter is Gorman took less than stellar rosters compared to the other teams in the NHL at the time and won 2 Cups.
I challenge you or Dreak to bring those Chicago/Maroon teams up that he was coaching and then put them against the Canadians, Rangers and Bruins and tell me what Gorman did wasn't ****ing impressive.
Nobody is saying that Gorman's work wasn't impressive. Back to back cups at any point in history was a great accomplishment, made even more impressive in his case because he did it with 2 different teams.
My issue personally is your almost complete discrediting of Babcock's regular season resume.. as well as ignoring that he also took some pretty mediocre teams to above expected results. His last two years in Detroit are an example of that. Most people were gushing over those teams and how great it was that Detroit lets their prospects develop for so long in the minors and were pointing at Nyquist and Tatar as examples of that. Well, what are those players doing now?
Babcock has his faults. He's stubborn to a fault at times (as most coaches are), and he has this kind of incomprehensible loyalty to players devoid of skill who just happen to work really hard. However, he also managed to revive the careers of Dan Cleary and Todd Bertuzzi to something resembling NHL players.
Also, just to touch on another point, I do not believe Babcock has some complete disregard for what works in today's game. If you look at the current Leafs, they're loaded with speed and skill, much like the Penguins. There is an issue with physicality and toughness, but that isn't up to him to solve. He's got to work with what he's got, and he's done as good of a job as anyone could have expected.