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"You're a boring old man"
Coaching:
- I say slight favor to Bankers but I understand if folks want to make this a wash given Babcock's far superior regular season resume. Gorman won 2 titles in 8 years, both coming in back to back years with less than stellar teams to say the least. Look at the rosters of Chicago and Montreal (Maroons) and compare them to the Canadians, Rangers, and Bruins of that time. The disparity of talent is quite telling. He was extremely innovative with aggressive fore checking teams and was a noted players coach who always seemed to get the best out of his guys.
Leaderhip/Intangibles:
-Nobody is going to beat the Bankers here. Gretzky, Clapper, Kennedy, Foyston, Griffis, Getzlaf, Westfall is a huge amount of real world leadership and intangibles. It's something I focused heavily on so I'd expect to be ahead here. Most of those guys also possess anywhere from good to elite performances in the biggest moments as well.
Forwards:
-I don't see a single line where the Leafs are as good or better than Pittsburgh (me).
My C talent and depth is astronomically better than Toronto IMO and historically speaking, C is the most important position on Cup winning teams IMO. The lack of offense at C for Toronto is concerning because it puts a lot of added pressure on the wings to boost the lines, and beyond Delvecchio and Selanne (both on the same line), the Leafs aren't sporting much in the way of offense on the wings. Bondra is their next highest VsX at 72. Nobody on the 2nd line is above 74.3. And while the Bankers certainly don't possess a ton of scoring depth on the wings, we counter that by having elite scoring down the middle, relative to 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th lines, (Gretzky 155.6 first line, Stewart is 90.3 second line, Kennedy 78.8 third line, Getzlaf 83.7 on the 4th line).
It's also important to note real life chemistry the Bankers posses at F. Nels Stewart played 2 seasons with Punch Broadbent next to him at RW, including his dominant 1925-26 Hart campaign that saw the Maroons win the Stanley Cup. Ted Kennedy played essentially a decade with/next to Sid Smith at LW and they won 3 Cups together in Toronto.
Fedorov isn't exactly the right type of C for Selanne but Delvecchio was a brilliant play maker. I do think this line can be pushed around some physically though and you better believe the Bankers under Gorman will make sure they chip that particular line any chance they can get. Westfall, Broadbent, Giroux, Foyston, Paiment, Bourne were all good to great fore checkers on the wings and Kennedy was arguably the best in the business when he played. Stewart was extremely physical as well, although he did much less in terms of fore checking and instead gave way to his wingers. I don't really know who will be doing a lot of the board work though for the Leafs on their top line.
I don't know how much offense the Leafs second line will generate to be honest. Their top scorer is Keon at 74.3. Larmer is 71.9 and Propp is 67.2. That's a very bleak amount of offense for a scoring line in the ATD. It certainly is stronger defensively but the Bankers have Nels Stewart at 90.3, Claude Giroux at 88 (100 in his full season at LW) and Broadbent who doesn't have a VsX score because a lot of his career was pre consolidation, but I'd say it's lower than anyone on the Leafs. Still, the Bankers enjoy a pretty big advantage offensively here.
The Bankers possess the best pure defensive forward in the series with Ed Westfall IMO and if we need to deploy it in such a manner, the best checking line with Smith-Kennedy-Westfall. And Westfall was a player who boosted his offense by a pretty decent margin come playoff time (0.62) vs regular season (0.51) and got few PP opportunities. Bob Bourne would slide up next to Kennedy late in games while protecting a lead given his skill set as an elite skater and solid checking F.
I think the 4th lines are well constructed for both teams but the clear advantage lies in Getzlaf at C. Bourne and Paiement are a wash with Muller and Nystrom IMO but Getzlaf outclasses Dale Hunter by a wide margin.
Defense:
-This is certainly where the Leafs have an advantage, especially comparing top pairs but then again Orr-Horton might be the very best top pair ever seen in the ATD (at least since the very early days I'd wager). Orr's technically on the wrong side (AFAIK he played mainly RD) but he's the best ever so I really don't think it matters much. Horton compliments him well in that he was definitely slanted towards defense first but was sneaky good in moving the puck, although he his use in that regard is not really needed. They're obviously going to see a lot of Gretzky and Nels Stewart's lines so it's a battle that will rage each game and I'd wager both sides will have their moments in the sun. And while Lapierriere and Clapper are significantly lower on the totem pole all around they're still well balanced and fit like a glove IMO. Clapper (at his peak on D) was touted as equal to Eddie Shore so for at least a brief time Clapper could play at an all time, elite level on the back end. His intangibles and leadership will be paramount along with Lappy's iron clad positioning and shot blocking ability.
Pretty interesting to see both second pairs end up being real life combo's. Brewer-Stanley are probably very slightly ahead of Stapleton/White, mainly due to the fact they won 4 cups together, but looking at the regular season AS nods, you see 7 combined for the Leafs and 6 for the Bankers. Stapleton did win the WHA's Murphy trophy in 1974 (their Norris) over JC Tremblay so that counts for at least a little something extra IMO.
A couple of more nuanced items that I think help the Bankers here are even strength usage and play and much cleaner play between the 2 defensive corps.
Take a look at this usage and impact the Bankers Dman had courtesy of overpass. Stapleton and White were used just as much as Orr at ES over essentially the same # of games. And both of them were actually used just a tad bit more than Tim Horton and also provided better returns when on the ice vs off than the donut man. 3 of the top 6 defensemen all time (from 1960 onward) in terms of even strength usage are on the Bankers.
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I think it's also important to note that the Leafs have multiple Dmen who were VERY high up the PIM's leaderboard. It's something to consider given the Bankers elite PP units. Gus Mortson had nearly 1400 PIM's (led league 4 times) in nearly 800 games. . Brewer had over 1000 in 600+ games (led league twice) and Baun had almost 1500 in 900+ games.
Whereas the Bankers are relatively clean across the board. Clapper had 400+ in in 800+ games. Lappy 674 in 691. Stapleton 350 in 635 games. White 495 in 604. Frank Patrick wasn't known as a heavily penalized player in the PCHA. Si Griffis is probably the only guy in our D corps that you might worry about taking an extra penalty somewhere and even he doesn't seem to match up with the Leafs worst in that department.
Overall, the Leafs enjoy a pretty sizable advantage here. Much like the Bankers at F.
Goalie(s)
-This (and special teams) is where the series is more or less decided for me, in my favor. Patrick Roy vs Johnny Bower. You have the greatest goalie of all time (in the minds of most) vs a below average starter in a 24 team league. I like Bower as a solid guy who will generally play ho-hum game for you in net but he's up against the best big game netminder ever. Roy's got 3 Smythe's to his name. 4 Cups. And the one time his team did lose in the Cup finals, he was flat out tremendous. Considering goalie is the only position to be on the ice for all 60 minutes (no other player comes remotely close to that), the value an elite netminder can bring to a team per game is incredible, positively or negatively speaking.
See the graph's below by Hockey Outsider and company showing just how dominant Roy was as a playoff goalie.
Special Teams:
-Given the Leafs lack of scoring punch pretty much across the board at F, the Bankers pretty handily own the PP, head to head. And I absolutely think we're slightly better on the kill as well considering Laperriere and White from a pure kill standpoint are 2 of the best all time (see graphs below). 76% usage is absurd for Laperriere but it goes to show you how valuable he was to Toe Blake and Claude Ruel. Even Bill White was used more than Orr and Horton on the PK.
I think Kennedy-Westfall is superior to Keon-Larmer due to the much bigger gap between Westfall (one of the 5 best PK forwards of all time) and Larmer. Kennedy was heavily used on the PK and while I give the edge to Keon, Kennedy's elite faceoff ability is sure to help in this area specifically.
And give me Gretzky/Bourne-Martinec over Propp-Fedorov. Gretzky when he plays was so far and away the most dangerous scorer down a man ever and his presence alone forces the PP to be extremely careful and in my mind, probably too passive because of it. Martinec is, after getting a slew of information from our HoH brother Batis, a legit 1st line killer here and as a 2nd unit guy is probably one of the better players.
- I say slight favor to Bankers but I understand if folks want to make this a wash given Babcock's far superior regular season resume. Gorman won 2 titles in 8 years, both coming in back to back years with less than stellar teams to say the least. Look at the rosters of Chicago and Montreal (Maroons) and compare them to the Canadians, Rangers, and Bruins of that time. The disparity of talent is quite telling. He was extremely innovative with aggressive fore checking teams and was a noted players coach who always seemed to get the best out of his guys.
Leaderhip/Intangibles:
-Nobody is going to beat the Bankers here. Gretzky, Clapper, Kennedy, Foyston, Griffis, Getzlaf, Westfall is a huge amount of real world leadership and intangibles. It's something I focused heavily on so I'd expect to be ahead here. Most of those guys also possess anywhere from good to elite performances in the biggest moments as well.
Forwards:
-I don't see a single line where the Leafs are as good or better than Pittsburgh (me).
My C talent and depth is astronomically better than Toronto IMO and historically speaking, C is the most important position on Cup winning teams IMO. The lack of offense at C for Toronto is concerning because it puts a lot of added pressure on the wings to boost the lines, and beyond Delvecchio and Selanne (both on the same line), the Leafs aren't sporting much in the way of offense on the wings. Bondra is their next highest VsX at 72. Nobody on the 2nd line is above 74.3. And while the Bankers certainly don't possess a ton of scoring depth on the wings, we counter that by having elite scoring down the middle, relative to 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th lines, (Gretzky 155.6 first line, Stewart is 90.3 second line, Kennedy 78.8 third line, Getzlaf 83.7 on the 4th line).
It's also important to note real life chemistry the Bankers posses at F. Nels Stewart played 2 seasons with Punch Broadbent next to him at RW, including his dominant 1925-26 Hart campaign that saw the Maroons win the Stanley Cup. Ted Kennedy played essentially a decade with/next to Sid Smith at LW and they won 3 Cups together in Toronto.
Fedorov isn't exactly the right type of C for Selanne but Delvecchio was a brilliant play maker. I do think this line can be pushed around some physically though and you better believe the Bankers under Gorman will make sure they chip that particular line any chance they can get. Westfall, Broadbent, Giroux, Foyston, Paiment, Bourne were all good to great fore checkers on the wings and Kennedy was arguably the best in the business when he played. Stewart was extremely physical as well, although he did much less in terms of fore checking and instead gave way to his wingers. I don't really know who will be doing a lot of the board work though for the Leafs on their top line.
I don't know how much offense the Leafs second line will generate to be honest. Their top scorer is Keon at 74.3. Larmer is 71.9 and Propp is 67.2. That's a very bleak amount of offense for a scoring line in the ATD. It certainly is stronger defensively but the Bankers have Nels Stewart at 90.3, Claude Giroux at 88 (100 in his full season at LW) and Broadbent who doesn't have a VsX score because a lot of his career was pre consolidation, but I'd say it's lower than anyone on the Leafs. Still, the Bankers enjoy a pretty big advantage offensively here.
The Bankers possess the best pure defensive forward in the series with Ed Westfall IMO and if we need to deploy it in such a manner, the best checking line with Smith-Kennedy-Westfall. And Westfall was a player who boosted his offense by a pretty decent margin come playoff time (0.62) vs regular season (0.51) and got few PP opportunities. Bob Bourne would slide up next to Kennedy late in games while protecting a lead given his skill set as an elite skater and solid checking F.
I think the 4th lines are well constructed for both teams but the clear advantage lies in Getzlaf at C. Bourne and Paiement are a wash with Muller and Nystrom IMO but Getzlaf outclasses Dale Hunter by a wide margin.
Defense:
-This is certainly where the Leafs have an advantage, especially comparing top pairs but then again Orr-Horton might be the very best top pair ever seen in the ATD (at least since the very early days I'd wager). Orr's technically on the wrong side (AFAIK he played mainly RD) but he's the best ever so I really don't think it matters much. Horton compliments him well in that he was definitely slanted towards defense first but was sneaky good in moving the puck, although he his use in that regard is not really needed. They're obviously going to see a lot of Gretzky and Nels Stewart's lines so it's a battle that will rage each game and I'd wager both sides will have their moments in the sun. And while Lapierriere and Clapper are significantly lower on the totem pole all around they're still well balanced and fit like a glove IMO. Clapper (at his peak on D) was touted as equal to Eddie Shore so for at least a brief time Clapper could play at an all time, elite level on the back end. His intangibles and leadership will be paramount along with Lappy's iron clad positioning and shot blocking ability.
Pretty interesting to see both second pairs end up being real life combo's. Brewer-Stanley are probably very slightly ahead of Stapleton/White, mainly due to the fact they won 4 cups together, but looking at the regular season AS nods, you see 7 combined for the Leafs and 6 for the Bankers. Stapleton did win the WHA's Murphy trophy in 1974 (their Norris) over JC Tremblay so that counts for at least a little something extra IMO.
A couple of more nuanced items that I think help the Bankers here are even strength usage and play and much cleaner play between the 2 defensive corps.
Take a look at this usage and impact the Bankers Dman had courtesy of overpass. Stapleton and White were used just as much as Orr at ES over essentially the same # of games. And both of them were actually used just a tad bit more than Tim Horton and also provided better returns when on the ice vs off than the donut man. 3 of the top 6 defensemen all time (from 1960 onward) in terms of even strength usage are on the Bankers.
I think it's also important to note that the Leafs have multiple Dmen who were VERY high up the PIM's leaderboard. It's something to consider given the Bankers elite PP units. Gus Mortson had nearly 1400 PIM's (led league 4 times) in nearly 800 games. . Brewer had over 1000 in 600+ games (led league twice) and Baun had almost 1500 in 900+ games.
Whereas the Bankers are relatively clean across the board. Clapper had 400+ in in 800+ games. Lappy 674 in 691. Stapleton 350 in 635 games. White 495 in 604. Frank Patrick wasn't known as a heavily penalized player in the PCHA. Si Griffis is probably the only guy in our D corps that you might worry about taking an extra penalty somewhere and even he doesn't seem to match up with the Leafs worst in that department.
Overall, the Leafs enjoy a pretty sizable advantage here. Much like the Bankers at F.
Goalie(s)
-This (and special teams) is where the series is more or less decided for me, in my favor. Patrick Roy vs Johnny Bower. You have the greatest goalie of all time (in the minds of most) vs a below average starter in a 24 team league. I like Bower as a solid guy who will generally play ho-hum game for you in net but he's up against the best big game netminder ever. Roy's got 3 Smythe's to his name. 4 Cups. And the one time his team did lose in the Cup finals, he was flat out tremendous. Considering goalie is the only position to be on the ice for all 60 minutes (no other player comes remotely close to that), the value an elite netminder can bring to a team per game is incredible, positively or negatively speaking.
See the graph's below by Hockey Outsider and company showing just how dominant Roy was as a playoff goalie.
Special Teams:
-Given the Leafs lack of scoring punch pretty much across the board at F, the Bankers pretty handily own the PP, head to head. And I absolutely think we're slightly better on the kill as well considering Laperriere and White from a pure kill standpoint are 2 of the best all time (see graphs below). 76% usage is absurd for Laperriere but it goes to show you how valuable he was to Toe Blake and Claude Ruel. Even Bill White was used more than Orr and Horton on the PK.
I think Kennedy-Westfall is superior to Keon-Larmer due to the much bigger gap between Westfall (one of the 5 best PK forwards of all time) and Larmer. Kennedy was heavily used on the PK and while I give the edge to Keon, Kennedy's elite faceoff ability is sure to help in this area specifically.
And give me Gretzky/Bourne-Martinec over Propp-Fedorov. Gretzky when he plays was so far and away the most dangerous scorer down a man ever and his presence alone forces the PP to be extremely careful and in my mind, probably too passive because of it. Martinec is, after getting a slew of information from our HoH brother Batis, a legit 1st line killer here and as a 2nd unit guy is probably one of the better players.
