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Jets - General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation 14-15 Part XI

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sully1410

sully1410

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Mortimer Snerd said:
Whether Chevy sold low or was over-payed is highly debatable right now. It depends on how the futures turn out and there is still room for a great deal of doubt about that. Breaking the deal into parts might make sense if we make it Myers for Bogo but really I don't think it can be broken apart like that. Lemieux for Bogo? Please! Even if Lemieux were to hit his ceiling that would be a terrible trade.

If we agree with your assessment of what we got it is a good trade but how about we got a rental + a prospect close to being an AHL lifer + a prospect who is a headcase + a 25th OA pick? I'm not saying that Armia and Lemieux turn out that badly but I wouldn't be surprised at all if they end up being the upgrade to our 4th line and no more. By itself that is not a bad thing if we get them a decent centre. And if that 25th pick can be a 2nd line F or 2nd pair D we will have done well enough but it is way too soon to start declaring Chevy a genius for that trade even though Bogo for Myers straight up looks like a win for us so far.
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Where did I say lemeiux for Bogo? I said Myers and Lemeiux for Bogo. And where are you getting your assessment of these guys from? Honestly? Is that just your opinion? Scouting reports on Armia have been widely positive, fan reviews on Armia have been great. Not sure where your getting career AHLer from there. I haven't heard much about Lemeiux...but I know Chevy was VERY excited to get him and no offense meant but I trust his judgment more when it comes to NHL prospects then yours.
 
Flair Hay

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I think we got fantastic value back for Kane. Way more than I thought and would have given up myself.

How the prospects turn out isn't part of the value you give up I don't think. Whether we win the trade or not, and the value we give up, are two different things.
 
sully1410

sully1410

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Flair Hay said:
I think we got fantastic value back for Kane. Way more than I thought and would have given up myself.

How the prospects turn out isn't part of the value you give up I don't think. Whether we win the trade or not, and the value we give up, are two different things.
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Their potential is totally part of the trade.
 
Mortimer Snerd

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sully1410 said:
Where did I say lemeiux for Bogo? I said Myers and Lemeiux for Bogo. And where are you getting your assessment of these guys from? Honestly? Is that just your opinion? Scouting reports on Armia have been widely positive, fan reviews on Armia have been great. Not sure where your getting career AHLer from there. I haven't heard much about Lemeiux...but I know Chevy was VERY excited to get him and no offense meant but I trust his judgment more when it comes to NHL prospects then yours.
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Even if you make it rental, armia and a 1st for Kane and myers + lemieux for Bogo...that's still a crazy over payment./QUOTE]

I misread that line, sorry.
Reading it correctly is better but now it is Kane for a rental, Armia and a 1st. I'm just not that excited by Armia as a prospect and a rental is just a rental. Armia is continually getting injured so far. I really hope that stops but I can't help but worry. His scoring is not coming along very well so far. If he can't score in the AHL he isn't likely to in the NHL. We are told he plays well defensively. Good size, good skating, good defense, can't score, sounds too much like James Wright to me. Maybe he becomes a good 4th liner.

Honestly, maybe I am just being the nervous Nellie here. When I first heard about the trade I was elated. I thought a 16th OA and an almost 1st rounder, great. But on sober second thought I am afraid we got the prospects that had already begun to disappoint Buffalo.

If we agree with your assessment of what we got it is a good trade but how about we got a rental + a prospect close to being an AHL lifer + a prospect who is a headcase + a 25th OA pick? I'm not saying that Armia and Lemieux turn out that badly but I wouldn't be surprised at all if they end up being the upgrade to our 4th line and no more. By itself that is not a bad thing if we get them a decent centre. And if that 25th pick can be a 2nd line F or 2nd pair D we will have done well enough but it is way too soon to start declaring Chevy a genius for that trade even though Bogo for Myers straight up looks like a win for us so far.
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Note the bold. I specifically said that is not a prediction but I think it is a real possibility. Which scouting reviews are you relying on? The ones from 4 years ago that got him drafted 16th OA?

Chevy's level of excitement is going to be relative isn't it. It depends on what he expects a particular prospect to turn out to be. Maybe he sees Lemieux as a Thorburn replacement and is all excited by that. Do you expect Chevy to announce the trade by saying all we got was some magic beans but he wanted to get Kane out of here fast?

Button and some others were very high on Lemieux. He apparently has a good attitude and is still developing so I am certainly not giving up on him but my expectations are not sky high either. Bottom 6 agitator and possible PP specialist. Takes penalties like a true Jet.
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sully1410

sully1410

#EggosForEleven
Dec 28, 2011
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Calgary, Alta.
Mortimer Snerd said:
Even if you make it rental, armia and a 1st for Kane and myers + lemieux for Bogo...that's still a crazy over payment./QUOTE]

I misread that line, sorry.
Reading it correctly is better but now it is Kane for a rental, Armia and a 1st. I'm just not that excited by Armia as a prospect and a rental is just a rental. Armia is continually getting injured so far. I really hope that stops but I can't help but worry. His scoring is not coming along very well so far. If he can't score in the AHL he isn't likely to in the NHL. We are told he plays well defensively. Good size, good skating, good defense, can't score, sounds too much like James Wright to me. Maybe he becomes a good 4th liner.

Honestly, maybe I am just being the nervous Nellie here. When I first heard about the trade I was elated. I thought a 16th OA and an almost 1st rounder, great. But on sober second thought I am afraid we got the prospects that had already begun to disappoint Buffalo.



Note the bold. I specifically said that is not a prediction but I think it is a real possibility. Which scouting reviews are you relying on? The ones from 4 years ago that got him drafted 16th OA?

Chevy's level of excitement is going to be relative isn't it. It depends on what he expects a particular prospect to turn out to be. Maybe he sees Lemieux as a Thorburn replacement and is all excited by that. Do you expect Chevy to announce the trade by saying all we got was some magic beans but he wanted to get Kane out of here fast?

Button and some others were very high on Lemieux. He apparently has a good attitude and is still developing so I am certainly not giving up on him but my expectations are not sky high either. Bottom 6 agitator and possible PP specialist. Takes penalties like a true Jet.
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Scheifele didn't score in the AHL either. Either way, if they were busts I'm pretty sure that Chevy wouldn't have wanted them. Prospects are a crap shoot in any case.
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AWSAA

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robertocarlos said:
Kane and Bogo for Myers and a 1st. Jets already won that trade.
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Chevy waits 4 years to make a shake up and when he does... he trades our two most recent top 5 picks, 24 & 23 years old respectively. The core of Ladd/Little/Wheeler/Byfuglien/Enstrom have now failed 5 times as a group to make the playoffs and they're all still here. Three of them will be 30+ next season, the other two not far off. By the time our 2015 picks begin to make solid contributions they'll all be out of their primes or nearing the close.
 

Whileee

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AWSAA said:
Chevy waits 4 years to make a shake up and when he does... he trades our two most recent top 5 picks, 24 & 23 years old respectively. The core of Ladd/Little/Wheeler/Byfuglien/Enstrom have now failed 5 times as a group to make the playoffs and they're all still here. Three of them will be 30+ next season, the other two not far off. By the time our 2015 picks begin to make solid contributions they'll all be out of their primes or nearing the close.
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Traded one of the top 5 picks (Bogo) for a better player of same age and with a better contract. Traded the other for two good prospects and a 1st round pick in a good draft. The Jets actually got younger in that trade.
 
Mortimer Snerd

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robertocarlos said:
Kane and Bogo for Myers and a 1st. Jets already won that trade.
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Only if you didn't think a great deal of Bogo and Kane.

I know you can't keep going back to draft order but we gave up a 3rd and a 4th for a 12th and a 25th if you want to look at it that way.

Myers may well turn out to be the best player in that trade. I'm not saying we lost the trade. I'm saying I am skeptical of the 2 prospects we got. Edit:Therefore it is a little hard to claim we won it.
 
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jamiebez

jamiebez

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Apr 5, 2005
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Mortimer Snerd said:
Only if you didn't think a great deal of Bogo and Kane.

I know you can't keep going back to draft order but we gave up a 3rd and a 4th for a 12th and a 25th if you want to look at it that way.

Myers may well turn out to be the best player in that trade. I'm not saying we lost the trade. I'm saying I am skeptical of the 2 prospects we got. Edit:Therefore it is a little hard to claim we won it.
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I think we re-sign Stafford, which helps the deal look a lot better.
 
Channelcat

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cbcwpg said:
Definitely want to keep Stafford.
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Signing Stafford would be a huge deal. I'm not convinced it will happen, but I'd be pretty ecstatic if it did. He shows the kind of on ice leadership that this team lacks. Make him the captain!
 
Mortimer Snerd

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jamiebez said:
I think we re-sign Stafford, which helps the deal look a lot better.
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I would have traded a 3rd round pick for Stafford as a rental so look at the trade as including a 3rd. It looks better that way too.

Having a pending UFA gives a slight advantage when it comes to trying to sign him but only very slight. He would have been available July 1 anyway. I really can't see judging a trade for a rental based on whether or not you sign him. He really is a rental. You get the use of him for that period of time. What comes after is a separate deal.
 

AWSAA

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He played 10 playoff games for them and registered 1 assist. It's right there on his hockeydb page.
 
surixon

surixon

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AWSAA said:
He played 10 playoff games for them and registered 1 assist. It's right there on his hockeydb page.
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Sure but it was in his draft plus 1 year as an 18/19 year old so shouldn't really be used as a comp to Armia and his draft plus 4 year.
 
Joe Hallenback

Joe Hallenback

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If your not scoring points then you are just hitting and blocking shots and that means you don't have the puck so you cant score

Vicious cycle
 
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