Jets - General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation 14-15 Part XI

[YWGinYYZ]

Continued from here: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1831365

Click to read more...

 

[spades0faces]

what would it take to get jagr or iginla in a hets uniform?

 

[garret9]

Probably more than they are worth due to "name brand"

 

[voyageur]

I am sorry for beating a dead horse but I had to reply to this response to my earlier post...

1) It is not 5 years ago but less than 5 days ago that Cam Ward beat the Leafs 2-1, the same Leafs that beat our #1 goalie last night...He was injured, but seems to have recovered, has won back the starting role, and has put a very strong statistical season, on a team that is Mc Daviding...The salary is the hardest part to accept about him, but like I said, if the Canes eat a million of that salary which would be then $5.5 for Ward vs. $3.9 for Pavs (with an extra year) there is no question which goalie I want. And again, for a team that needs to win now, not later (because a failure this year will affect the entire team mentally going into next year), the timing seems right.

2) As to Mc Clement, I do not see for an instant how you can say that a player who leads the Canes in PK icetime, on a team that is #1 in PK %, wins a similar amount draws, while playing over 13 minutes a game, and boasting impressive statistical numbers (like 8 Giveaways vs 33 Takeaways (find another forward at that ratio please)) is not better, and considerably better than Jim Slater, who is trending towards obscurity. Mc Clement-Frolik to start every PK is a step in the right direction...I think maybe the next one is to sit Stuart, start with Buff-Trouba, followed by Enstrom-Myers. Having a confident, winning goalie is the most important one.

3) Trading Kane has left us thinner on LW, something that Stafford does not address. Perrault's injury further thinned us out. Frolik can play LW but seems to be more comfortable at RW, and if you are referring to Armia, or O'Dell they are both righties too, so there is no immediate help in that area. Which is why I chose Rask, as I think Lindholm would require a bigger piece than Burmi.

I don't mean to be offensive, but I really want to win now, with astute management and good scouting, and I would start by getting more winners on this team, and the best place to find winners in the heat of the battle is on the losing teams, sorry...



Originally Posted by voyageur View Post

Sorry Mr. Snerrd, but that is not very accurate. Was it not Cam Ward who was invited to the Team Canada Olympic camp, as a potential top 2/3 goalie in the nation, not Bernier, Reimer, or any other of the goalies we want to trade for. Statistically. boasting a .913 save % and 2.39 GAA on a terrible Canes team puts him closer to Hutch numbers than Pav's numbers...Then you ignored the premise of my whole dissertation, which was that we have a window that is this year and next year to win...Our winners and leaders, Ladd, Buff and Frolik could all be gone in this time. Adding a winner, who would easily integrate into our dressing room, at a position which would inspire confidence in our entire team's play (does anyone on these boards think that Pavs inspires confidence in his teammates letting in stinkers, and struggling with rebound control?) reverberates. Really trading for Ward would cost us one year of an inflated salary (which we could probably get the Canes to eat $1 million out of for next year, just to get him off the books), but is there a more important position to invest in? NO. One year with a veteran winning goalie, as we develop our future (Helleybuck and Comrie) to replace him seems like good management. Does anyone see Pavs value appreciating? His extra year of contract will also impede that internal development as I can not see us having Helleybuck and Comrie in the minors for 2 consecutive years. Even next year, it is conceivable that one is loaned to another team, just to ensure playing time...Unless we really want to go with 2 raw goalies to inspire our vets to re-sign here, which was the premise of my whole discourse.

You can say that Rask is not worth Burmi, that is your entitled opinion, but he is a 2 way forward, with junior/AHL/NHL development, who has 5 less points than so called stars (Skinner and Tlusty) on the Canes. 3rd line, 2 way forward, which is likely all Burmi will ever be, so I say apples and oranges. Difference: Rask can contribute this year.

If you think Mc Clement is not a better centre than Slater, you are mistaken. He centred a good 3rd line in St. Louis for many years. Key PKer. Also has that intangible that is missing on this team: playoff experience. That's how I see it, anyways.

I agree with the bolded part. That's all.

Ward has bounced back somewhat this year from poor a couple of years ago to really horrible last year. I couldn't care less about an Olympic tryout invite, please. He is extremely expensive for 1 year and isn't a solution to anything. It seems to me you are remembering both him and McClement as they were 5 years ago. Sorry, neither one is any improvement over what we have and not worth the effort of the phone calls. Rask is not horrible. He is young and in just his 1st NHL season. He is doing reasonable well but he has never excelled at any lower level so there is no reason to expect much from him. We have his equal in St John's now.

 

[wpgsilver]

...Ward is hot garbage.
Why is anyone talking about him

 

[voyageur]

...Ward is hot garbage.
Why is anyone talking about him

You could have said the very same thing about Devyn Dubnyk last year. Ward would win on this team, and you would sure make the leaders on this team happier with a goalie who gave them confidence...which Pavelec will never do. But sometimes the truth is not always apparent...

 

[Hunter368]

...Ward is hot garbage.
Why is anyone talking about him

B/c our GM endorsed starter is hotter garbage and our backup is playing nearly as bad lately. I'm not endorsing a Ward trade but with our playoff hopes dying again this year.....people are willing to consider all options. 4 years of being a bubble team (that fails each year) makes fans very fustrated.

 

[wpgsilver]

You could have said the very same thing about Devyn Dubnyk last year. Ward would win on this team, and you would sure make the leaders on this team happier with a goalie who gave them confidence...which Pavelec will never do. But sometimes the truth is not always apparent...

Or he could fail spectacularly. And saddle us with a brutal contract.
Pointing to a goalie who defied the odds doesn't make Ward better.

Odds are Ward continues to suck if he came here.

B/c our GM endorsed starter is hotter garbage and our backup is playing nearly as bad lately. I'm not endorsing a Ward trade but with our playoff hopes dying again this year.....people are willing to consider all options. 4 years of being a bubble team (that fails each year) makes fans very fustrated.

Two bad options means adding a third is a good idea?
Adding a terrible contract helps us?

 

[Whileee]

Or he could fail spectacularly. And saddle us with a brutal contract.
Pointing to a goalie who defied the odds doesn't make Ward better.

Odds are Ward continues to suck if he came here.

Two bad options means adding a third is a good idea?
Adding a terrible contract helps us?

^^^ yup....

It's a bit odd that folks that are all over Chevy for signing Pavs to a bad contract despite his mediocre record want him to acquire a more expensive goalie who's had a longer run of mediocre play than Pavs did before his contract.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

^^^ yup....

It's a bit odd that folks that are all over Chevy for signing Pavs to a bad contract despite his mediocre record want him to acquire a more expensive goalie who's had a longer run of mediocre play than Pavs did before his contract.

Its the "anyone but ...." syndrome. Basically anyone is better then what you have despite what their record,number or fans might say about that player.

 

[Hunter368]

Two bad options means adding a third is a good idea?
Adding a terrible contract helps us?

Where did I advocate trading for Ward, I actually stated the opposite....read my post again.

But as I stated I understand some peoples fustration and willingness to try anything to make this team finally win a playoff spot. If we miss the playoffs again (about a 50/50 chance now) it will be 4 years of failure reaching the playoffs.

 

[wpgsilver]

Where did I advocate trading for Ward, I actually stated the opposite....read my post again.

But as I stated I understand some peoples fustration and willingness to try anything to make this team finally win a playoff spot. If we miss the playoffs again (about a 50/50 chance now) it will be 4 years of failure reaching the playoffs.

B/c our GM endorsed starter is hotter garbage and our backup is playing nearly as bad lately. I'm not endorsing a Ward trade but with our playoff hopes dying again this year.....people are willing to consider all options. 4 years of being a bubble team (that fails each year) makes fans very fustrated.

Yes you said you weren't endorsing Ward.
Then you said people were willing to consider all options.

I was merely pointing out that considering a bad option is worse than doing nothing.

I have no interest in my team willing to "try anything". That sounds dumb, and impulsive to me.
I want my team to try to the right thing, the smart things, or try nothing at all.

Nothing is guaranteed, but when making a move, I want to have some faith that at the outset it has a chance, or better yet, a better than equal shot of succeeding.

Signing Ward and hoping for a Dubnyk type resurgence does not fit my criteria.

 

[StronGeer]

Steer clear of Bryz and Ward.

Just so much nope.

 

[Hunter368]

Yes you said you weren't endorsing Ward.
Then you said people were willing to consider all options.

I was merely pointing out that considering a bad option is worse than doing nothing.

I have no interest in my team willing to "try anything". That sounds dumb, and impulsive to me.
I want my team to try to the right thing, the smart things, or try nothing at all.

Nothing is guaranteed, but when making a move, I want to have some faith that at the outset it has a chance, or better yet, a better than equal shot of succeeding.

Signing Ward and hoping for a Dubnyk type resurgence does not fit my criteria.

As I stated once, I'll state again I'm not endorsing it.....but I could see some willing to try desperate things......I'm not endorsing that either.

Personally I'm starting to lose hope in this season.....just a tad. Seems like the team has started to collapse. They havent impressed me for any long periods of time for a while now. Both goalies have been sucking badly, Pavs is bad like we all knew he would be, Hutch is starting to crash down hard like many suspected he would. The early good goaltending that helped the team achieve its early season success is showing its true colours it would appear.

Starting to look like a strong possibility of no playoffs again this year for the Jets, we should be getting used to that by now. Backing into the playoffs means nothing to me personally (other than me making money on playoff tickets) and losing in 4 straight games.

I'm starting to think about the draft now. I'm finding myself not even caring much about loses anymore this year. More just embarressing than anything at this point. If they turn this around quickly and start playing some good disciplined defensive hockey (including special teams) quickly and win a playoff spot on a strong note great. If they fail to reach the playoffs or back into the playoffs meh.....when's the draft.

 

[Hunter368]

Steer clear of Bryz and Ward.

Just so much nope.

Now Bryz is a real train wreck.

 

[Whileee]

As I stated once, I'll state again I'm not endorsing it.....but I could see some willing to try desperate things......I'm not endorsing that either.

Personally I'm starting to lose hope in this season.....just a tad. Seems like the team has started to collapse. They havent impressed me for any long periods of time for a while now. Both goalies have been sucking badly, Pavs is bad like we all knew he would be, Hutch is starting to crash down hard like many suspected he would. The early good goaltending that helped the team achieve its early season success is showing its true colours it would appear.

Starting to look like a strong possibility of no playoffs again this year for the Jets, we should be getting used to that by now. Backing into the playoffs means nothing to me personally (other than me making money on playoff tickets) and losing in 4 straight games.

I'm starting to think about the draft now. I'm finding myself not even caring much about loses anymore this year. More just embarressing than anything at this point. If they turn this around quickly and start playing some good disciplined defensive hockey (including special teams) quickly and win a playoff spot on a strong note great. If they fail to reach the playoffs or back into the playoffs meh.....when's the draft.

This was going to be a tough season, in any case.

With the loss of Kane and Perreault, that makes it that much tougher (two of our top 6 forwards).

With goalies regressing, it makes it a very steep climb.

It seems pretty simplistic, but the Jets need their goaltending to shore up, and they need to reduce the goals against (starting with the PK). They are still going to be in tough. I'm not sure another forward or two on the bottom-6 will compensate if their goaltending and penalties / PK don't improve.

 

[truck]

The Jets goalies are probably going to rebound after this run of yuck. Hopefully they do it in time.

 

[thereturn]

Not much new in this article, but it's nice to see more Jets content on sites like espn:

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/12355396/nhl-winnipeg-jets-options-march-2-trade-deadline

 

[DEANYOUNGBLOOD17]

I understand that many on here want Chevy to buy at the deadline to try and make the playoffs. .... I am starting to think that the Jets over achieved in the 1st half of the season ( low win total against playoff teams and 80 % win total against non playoff teams). Since the all star break every body is saying the Jets are slumping. I say they are reverting to a norm and any assets used in trade for a rental for the remaining 20 games would be a waste, Winnik is not worth the asking price. If Chevy can get a deal in the last hour b4 200 pm on march 2 nd....... then maybe.

The way the Jets played the 5 games after the all star break and the last three games against Edm / Wash / and Toronto they have not inspired me to put my chips into the pot.... but the opposite and hold the course. I do not want another knee jerk reaction ( see Settiguchi) that waste assets ( 2nd round pick) on crap players to aplease a starving fan base.

When we got a franchise back .......... we said we want to draft and develop and use the Nashville model for success. I see Nashville going all in trading their 1st rounder and wpg grown prospect Leipsic (3 rd rounder) for two good rentals. Its just that there is a big difference between going all in with a four of a kind (in first place with the best goalie in the league) or going all in with a pair of 7 s and Queen high ( Jets with spotty goal tending and barly holding onto a playoff spot).

**** I think a lot of posters want to sit at the big table with the big boys but they do not realize they don't have the cards.

NEW INFO.....

........ I just wanted to make my point clear that Chevy has done his part by replacing Kane with Stafford for the remainder of the year... and has also got 3 pieces for the future.... a first rounder from 2011 ( Armelia), a 31 st in 2014 pick in Lemiux and a 1st rnd pick in a deep draft in 2015.

Perault got hurt........ we have to solve that problem from with in our organization..... I don't see Dallas racing to replace Seguin......if we fall short ..... we fall short.

For those that want to part with a 2nd.... for some smuck for 20 games for the small chance that he will be able to lead us to the promise land. ( and by promise land I mean 2 home playoff games vs Anahiem in the playoffs). The 2015 draft is rated as one of the deepest drafts since 2003.......... and instead of boring you with examples of the 2003 draft of 2nd rounders ( like Webber and Bergeron)...... I will list some names of 2nd rounders from a more recent draft (2013) that is not rated as high as the current 2015 draft.......... would you rather the Jets have one of these players for 7 years * cost controlled or have...........Winnick or Vermette for 20 games.........

Petan ... Wpg.....team Canada WJC
Heatherington (D)...team Canada WJC
Bigras ....Col,,,, team Canada WJC
Bowey.....Wash.... Team Canada WJC
Comrie.... Wpg,,team Canada wjc
fucale (g) Mont WJC Canada
Tristan Ferry (G) should have been WJC Canada
Santini WJC USA

and notables

-Zach Nastastiuk....Det

Bertuzzi ...Det

-Justin Bailey....Buff

- Adam Ernie... Tampa

 

[PhilJets]

stay the course...

don't give up and of the 1st and 2nd pick

 

[YWGinYYZ]

stay the course...

don't give up and of the 1st and 2nd pick

I would trade all of our picks if the trades make sense. Player utility, contract term, age, etc: if it makes sense, then you do it. The goal isn't to stockpile picks - it's to improve the team over time, IMHO.

For rentals? No. For players that fit the roster, have good caphits and term? Why not. JMO.

 

[voyageur]

Or he could fail spectacularly. And saddle us with a brutal contract.
Pointing to a goalie who defied the odds doesn't make Ward better.

Odds are Ward continues to suck if he came here.

The investment is for one year, and the stretch run for this year, which is crucial. I hate to be captain Obivous but Pavs has stunk down the stretch. Are you looking at the numbers Ward has put up in the last month? ,923 sv% , on a garbage team, he is trending upwards, not downwards. Add to that our coach knows him from experience, our captain won a Cup with him, in their younger years, he is Western Canadian, and you have a fit for our team. You can keep boasting that Wards sucks, but he has been really good this year, so I am guessing that you are simply choosing to ignore that, for the sake of argument.

Every single poster who has replied to my post has failed to comment on my main argument that losing will affect the leadership of this team. If we want to be losers, and say heh, let's wait for Helleybuck and Comrie to be ready, after Ladd and Buff have walked away, tired of losing, leaving a leadership void, are we just planning to win next year, every year?

Ward and Mc Clement

for

Pavelec, Phillips and Postma

would make us a better team, with the need to get a LW (Calvert) as an investment for the present and future. And that is no bull.

 

[GJF]

Hell yeah I'd try out to swap Pavs and Ward. I always liked Cam Ward a lot and to me it's a mystery why he regressed so much and I think a change of scenery would give him a second chance to re-start his career. He can do it and if the succeeds, boy can he put up good goaltending for you.

 

[KingBogo]

I find it quite interesting the amount of people willing to meekly step aside and say good bye to yet another season. Well guess what, best case scenario we are in the same position next season. There are only 3 teams in the western conference that look to have secured a playoff spot (Preds, Blues, Ducks) one that is likely (Hawks) everyone is battling for their playoff lives. Six teams are within 3 points of each other fighting for the remaining playoff spots (Canucks, Jets, Wild, Kings, Flames, Sharks) And 2 more with a hope 6 points out (Stars and Avs). Every season is going to be like this. When did a team ever win the cup without first having to fight and claw, just to get in? Get bounced around, learn from it and try again. Why wouldn't we want the Jets to start this process?

I've heard the same argument the last 3 seasons, and yet again even though we are currently sitting in a playoff spot. Sure we have some flaws but so do all the teams fighting and clawing to get in. I've cheered this team on for 3 3/4 years and I'd be willing to give them a nudge to get a playoff spot and that includes trading that glorious 2nd round pick.

Because I don't think this team will be together long if they don't start experience success. Let's look at Buff. Why does he sign with the Jets if we aren't willing to push for the playoffs? He will be asked to sign for a hometown discount this off season? IMO he would be much more willing to look at this if we show a commitment to winning. Otherwise why not go to Free Agency and get the big payday and go to a team willing to try and win.

We sit here and wait and hope all our prospects reach their max potential, gel at the same time and carry us on the wings to the promise land. Guess what, that won't happen either. Ask the Oilers how that plan works out.

Getting back to the mid 2nd round pick. I can make a list far longer made up of marginal dime a dozen players from that range and an even longer list of never were's. That maybe had time for a cup of coffee in the NHL. Not that a 2nd round pick doesn't have value, but I believe by adding 3 assets of greater value in the last couple weeks Chevy is intending to give himself some chips to play with. IMO the value of playoff experience on our future is far greater.

Chevy will have to answer to the players one by one after this season as he try to keep them in the fold. Because they know if he is unwilling to try now, they will be in the same position year after year.

 

[mikey d]

With the emergence of Jamie Phillips this season, should we use Comrie as trade bait rather than our second rounder? Or package both for someone a bit more significant (ie a player with more term)?