Post-Game Talk: Jets fall to the Ducks 4-1

[Howard Chuck]

Yep, the "lack of talent" meme is a bit lazy and not very accurate IMO.

It is hard for my to pin all the special teams struggles on coaching. Not saying anything new, but the Jets use some really, really bad players on their penalty kill. No one has come even remotely close to replacing what Kane and Frolik were capable of on the PK.

I do think the powerplay would benefit from better coaching, but again, there are personnel issues as well. They seem to lack a true quarterback on the first unit.

Sooo..... a lack of talent then?

 

[ATLbound]

Yep, the "lack of talent" meme is a bit lazy and not very accurate IMO.

It is hard for my to pin all the special teams struggles on coaching. Not saying anything new, but the Jets use some really, really bad players on their penalty kill. No one has come even remotely close to replacing what Kane and Frolik were capable of on the PK.

I do think the powerplay would benefit from better coaching, but again, there are personnel issues as well. They seem to lack a true quarterback on the first unit.

They do lack a true quarterback on the PP... Buff is not that guy. Hes dangerous because his shot and he has some decent hands. But he is prone to taking bad, low percentage shots at bad times and losing us possession. He should be on PP1, but not as the top main puck handling guy. Ladd is fine to have on PP1, as long as he is in front of the goal/ slot and not used in any other manner then screening/ tips and the odd shot from the slot. Maybe its time to not use the umbrella. We all know the set up and plan. Why not throw a curveball at teams and change the set up/ who is where.

 

[ecolad]

Lots of interesting discussion earlier about the failures of our PP.

IMO it is not really a question of general talent but rather, whether we have players with the specialized skillsets necessary to run an efficient PP. And the simple answer is IMO ......no we do not.

-we do not have players that have the skillsets necessary to play the halfwall effectively (excellent puck handling/puck protection;excellent vision of the ice; excellent passing capability ).Matty P. probably the best on our roster

-we do not have a pointman who can walk the blueline so as to open shooting lanes: one-time hard shots from across ice that consistently hit the net/ stay low level for tips. Buff is probably best on our roster but accuracy/control is average at best.

-we do not have a player who is committed to being a net presence (establish and maintain a screen on goalie; quick enough to capitalize on loose pucks and passouts from down low). Ladd is the closest we have to such a presence.

-we are at a disadvantage trying to run an attack from the left half-wall since we have no skilled left hand shooters on the roster to position themselves to receive passes and make quick releases on net.

-we do not have any players (either left or right handed) that can one-time a passout from the half-wall; the puck nearly always must be stopped for a shot on goal giving the goalie time to better position himself. This inability to one time a shot also unfortunately applies to our pointman accepting passes along the blueline.


Having said the above, there is no question but that we need better coaching as a priority. Surely we can at minimum find a few differing ways of entering the zone and quickly setting up, something that has plagued us now all season. Maybe the coaches have tried to design a PP that best utiizes the skillsets of our roster players but the over reliance on generating shots from the points is getting very "old", predictable, and easy to defend.

 

[Duke749]

I can't remember the last time this franchise had a true halfwall guy on the PP. For years it's been all about point shots.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Given our propensity for taking penalties, I'd like to see them try to fix the PK before they take a run at the PP. You can argue that there's a deficiency in talent in certain areas on the PP, but it's a much easier task to be a good PK'er vs. a good PP'er, IMHO.

Fix the PK, live with the PP as it is, cut down on penalties, and Bob's yer Uncle (even if he's not). I notice they're trying Buff on the PK now - good. They need to do more like that - our PK improved when we started using our more talented players on the PK, such as Kane, Frolik, Burmi, etc. In that vein: put some specialists on the 4th - Halischuk is a pretty decent PK'er - do more of that, and use that line as both an energy line / kill time line, and a place to station specialists. It'd be better than the ... whatever we use that line for now.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

I can't remember the last time this franchise had a true halfwall guy on the PP. For years it's been all about point shots.

Matty P, Scheif, and eventually, Petan could be those guys. They use Matty P in that role now - wish they'd move Scheif to the 1st PP.

 

[Mooche]

Matty P, Scheif, and eventually, Petan could be those guys. They use Matty P in that role now - wish they'd move Scheif to the 1st PP.

Personally, I think Scheif would make a lot of sense on the top unit working from the slot.

Let him use that nasty release.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Matty P, Scheif, and eventually, Petan could be those guys. They use Matty P in that role now - wish they'd move Scheif to the 1st PP.

What we don't have is a shooter, someone with a one timer. We pass the puck around and I don't know what the goal is. What shot or scoring chance are we are attempting to generate?

 

[citizenmundane]

PK is also lacking someone (like Kesler) that can win face-offs at will. IMO controlling the puck from the face-off is key to an effective PP and PK. We've been lacking that for a few seasons - Slater was great at face-offs for a few seasons until he was injured.

 

[Howard Chuck]

So we need all of these things but my saying we were lacking talent is a lazy meme?

Alrighty.

 

[robertocarlos]

What we don't have is a shooter, someone with a one timer. We pass the puck around and I don't know what the goal is. What shot or scoring chance are we are attempting to generate?

Stamkos. Go all in Chevy. I'd prefer Ovechkin though.

 

[citizenmundane]

So we need all of these things but my saying we were lacking talent is a lazy meme?

Alrighty.

I agree with you - for what it's worth. This team is lacking depth right now.

 

[Hhane Snidy]

So we need all of these things but my saying we were lacking talent is a lazy meme?

Alrighty.

You are correct Ron Howard Chuck. We need a lot of things including more talent.

 

[BigZ65]

I can't remember the last time this franchise had a true halfwall guy on the PP. For years it's been all about point shots.

I think a lot of that has to do with Byfuglien being the PP catalyst.

55 is the half-wall guy IMO. He doesn't get much of a shot as they are completely willing to drive that PP1 group right off the cliff. Perreault is all right at it too, but he's about #4 on that PP1 in terms of seeing the puck. It all runs through Byfuglien, Wheeler and Little.

 

[CaptainChef]

PK is also lacking someone (like Kesler) that can win face-offs at will. IMO controlling the puck from the face-off is key to an effective PP and PK. We've been lacking that for a few seasons - Slater was great at face-offs for a few seasons until he was injured.

yup 3rd worst at winning faceoffs in the league as well. And its killing us on the PK cause teams win face-off in our zone & we spend the next minute chasing them or even worse sitting in our tight little box until we get scored on or opposition has a couple real good chances.

Don't understand our propensity to sit tight in the box. There have been times when we rushed the guy with the puck & have been more effective, but too often were're playing that tight box that does us no good whatsoever.

 

[Gm0ney]

The reason the Jets powerplay doesn't have much net front presence is because that's not the system they're being instructed to use. Same goes for the passive box on the penalty kill. That's the plan in action. This team has enough talent for at least an average PP and PK...they don't have the right systems - or they don't have the right players to run the systems they're being told to use. Either way, it's probably easier to change the system and/or coaches than the players (with the exception of getting Stu off the PK...that's an easy one).

 

[Howard Chuck]

The reason the Jets powerplay doesn't have much net front presence is because that's not the system they're being instructed to use. Same goes for the passive box on the penalty kill. That's the plan in action. This team has enough talent for at least an average PP and PK...they don't have the right systems - or they don't have the right players to run the systems they're being told to use. Either way, it's probably easier to change the system and/or coaches than the players (with the exception of getting Stu off the PK...that's an easy one).

I agree with your points and it always makes me wonder in situations like this, everyone in the world seemingly knows these systems don't work. Even our opposition knows what to expect.

Why don't the coaches do what works? Are we that special that only we can see it but highly paid, experienced coaches don't see it?

I would love to understand.

 

[Mathmew Purrrr Oh]

 

[Ducky10]

I agree with others that the Jets have the players to make it work, I think both Matty P and Ehlers have more than enough skill along the half wall and Scheif can be effective from there or in the slot in a spread formation or a 1-3-1. Ladd is simply a fish out of water along the half wall and I don't know why they insist on keeping him there or what they are trying to accomplish. The #1 unit seems to be running an overload but with Ladd on the half wall, not sure why he's not the low guy on the goal line getting to the net when the puck gets to the point. Seems to me in years past that was his role in that formation or the 2-1-2, with some success, well, as successful as a Jet PP has ever been anyway.

I think the umbrella they seem to be running with the second unit is much more dynamic, but they seem just as directionless, no purpose other than Scheif getting the puck low and trying to drive the net or go cross seam. I like Trouba in this setup and would like to see him get more opportunity, I think he'd e effective in the overload dragging the puck to the middle.

Ultimately I think they have the personnel, they're just trying to fit square pegs in round holes to some degree and running the wrong formations with the wrong people. At 13.9% they simply need to change things up and try some new looks.

 

[Gil Fisher]

Did the Jets skate anywhere yesterday? Curious to see the end result of all the line juggling Sunday.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Did the Jets skate anywhere yesterday? Curious to see the end result of all the line juggling Sunday.

It was a travel day....no on ice session

 

[castle]

well, I guess this is a reflection of the Jets season. The Tank Thread is high traffic and there is no game day thread!

 

[YWGinYYZ]

well, I guess this is a reflection of the Jets season. The Tank Thread is high traffic and there is no game day thread!

Anyone is welcome to put one up. Unfortunately, I'm incredibly busy at the moment, and a bit burned out on putting up GDTs (I've done over 100 at this point).

If no one has put up a GDT by 2pm ET today, I'll throw an Emergency GDT up.

 

[Gm0ney]

I agree with your points and it always makes me wonder in situations like this, everyone in the world seemingly knows these systems don't work. Even our opposition knows what to expect.

Why don't the coaches do what works? Are we that special that only we can see it but highly paid, experienced coaches don't see it?

I would love to understand.

Maybe our coaches aren't great? The PK hasn't traditionally been too bad, but Stu's been terrible and Kane and Frolik were effective penalty killers who aren't around anymore. The PP has sucked for a long time - since 2012-13, really.

Look at the chart below...higher up is better PK, farther right is better PP. Washington has a combination of elite skill and a great PP system. But look at Toronto! Even Carolina. I think we can assume it's not elite talent making their special teams good. Meanwhile, talent-rich Chicago and Tampa have worse special teams than Winnipeg - good thing they don't take 12 penalties a game, I guess...

 

[CaptainChef]

well, I guess this is a reflection of the Jets season. The Tank Thread is high traffic and there is no game day thread!

LOL I was noticing the same thing. This is a huge game for the Jets if they want any chance of making the playoffs because Nash is the only team they have a shot at catching. Not that I'm cheering for a win either, I've given my perspective on that in the tank thread