News Article: Jets exploring trade market for Wheeler

[lomiller1]

Yup look at Ottawa for exhibit A what a rebuild looks like in the stands.

That depends on the rebuild. Ottawa waited until all their assets aged out then tried to rebuild. If you are more proactive you can trade for younger assets and draft picks, potentially keep some of the younger assets you already have and actually commit to playing guys just breaking into the NHL. Not only did Ottawa not do this, but they were still missing a first round pick early in the rebuild.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Wheeler puts up 70 points with improved metrics this season.

If he does that means he's getting a lot of powerplay time that should be going to Perfetti.

 

[surixon]

That depends on the rebuild. Ottawa waited until all their assets aged out then tried to rebuild. If you are more proactive you can trade for younger assets and draft picks, potentially keep some of the younger assets you already have and actually commit to playing guys just breaking into the NHL. Not only did Ottawa not do this, but they were still missing a first round pick early in the rebuild.


If he does that means he's getting a lot of powerplay time that should be going to Perfetti.

Sure but even other rebuilds like Yzermans in Detroit is about 4 or 5 years in now and no sign of making massive improvements out of the basement.

 

[Flair Hay]

Ottawa was a rebellion against Melnyck.
He tore down and rebuilt the team that had just made it to the SCF, fcs.

And then there are all of Ottawa's other problems. Winnipeg has none of the same issues.



No. Melnyk was a clearly meddling owner, right out in full view. His meddling was not only obvious, it was ridiculous. Some here suspect Chipman of meddling, based only on circumstantial evidence. They may be correct, but if so Chipman is nothing like Melnyk in the way he meddles.

Well said on all counts Mort. Comparing Chipman to Melnyck just shows how much someone is taking Chipman for granted.

The dude probably is involved more than he should be. But that's like 90% on owners in sports. Maybe I'm a dummy for being on team "happy to have a team." I like to think I learned a lesson by losing the team once.

I think if people are staying away, it is a condemnation of the direction the team is taking.

People will support the team if they know they are putting a strong emphasis on the draft and develop model we got away from. People know that their investment in the lean years could pay off ten fold if the team ever got to a top 5 level again.

I'd the worry is that people wont buy tickets to watch a bad team? News flash, they are already not buying because they are unhappy with the direction. We want players who want to be here. Players we can be proud of. Its tough right now when Scheif, Wheeler and then Dubois all put it our there in their own way they may not want to be here for long.

There is a lot more to building a team than just a roster. The culture is huge too. I'm hoping that's where Chevy will be able to make the biggest improvements. It just may take longer by not worsening the roster right now in hopes it will get better.

Long winded but I feel better now haha

 

[Flair Hay]

Sure but even other rebuilds like Yzermans in Detroit is about 4 or 5 years in now and no sign of making massive improvements out of the basement.

With Stevie Y you know it is being done right. Quicker is rarely better.

The flip side is if we dont, we may not be any better than now in 4 or 5 years anyway. Or our best players leave anyway as deadline UFA's

I get Chevy being patient. But I do feel like its 2012 all over again with a solid core and an otherwise uninspiring roster.

Maybe there is something to be said of the habit of actually fighting for playoffs night in night out the stats cant capture for a franchise? Hard to tell, I'm back and forth on this.

 

[TommyKillian]

Sure but even other rebuilds like Yzermans in Detroit is about 4 or 5 years in now and no sign of making massive improvements out of the basement.

Detroit is an interesting case study. Yzerman is universally considered a great GM due to the team he built in Tampa. Even with his skill a full rebuild can take a long time and requires luck. Detroit was mismanaged at the end of Holland's run and have been bad under Yzerman. That's 6 years of no playoffs and another 3 before that of first round exits. Even after all that poor performance they aren't on the verge of contention. In particular, their organizational centre depth is pretty mediocre.

If Winnipeg follows a similar path alarm bells will be ringing at True North. We have the advantage on some rebuilding teams of having 3 fantastic trade chips to cash in over the next two years. But, to bring it back to the topic at hand, Wheeler isn't one of them. As long as Bowness doesn't overplay Wheeler to the exclusion of the young players, I am okay keeping him.

 

[GaryPoppins]

He can't take half the year to get going if we want to do anything this year.

He either starts well or is demoted until his play warrants more imo.

I’ll never forget his first game back from Covid. 20+ mins that night. Was frankly disgusting and unsafe for a player coming back from that.

Detroit is an interesting case study. Yzerman is universally considered a great GM due to the team he built in Tampa. Even with his skill a full rebuild can take a long time and requires luck. Detroit was mismanaged at the end of Holland's run and have been bad under Yzerman. That's 6 years of no playoffs and another 3 before that of first round exits. Even after all that poor performance they aren't on the verge of contention. In particular, their organizational centre depth is pretty mediocre.

If Winnipeg follows a similar path alarm bells will be ringing at True North. We have the advantage on some rebuilding teams of having 3 fantastic trade chips to cash in over the next two years. But, to bring it back to the topic at hand, Wheeler isn't one of them. As long as Bowness doesn't overplay Wheeler to the exclusion of the young players, I am okay keeping him.

I think most are okay keeping wheeler if he keeps himself in check.

 

[Thechozen1]

Wheeler is NOT going anywhere until the TDL in 2024. This thread should be locked. He got his own thread based on the article at the beginning of July, but I think it’s safe to say the the market for him if there ever truly was one has all but disappeared.

Any trade of wagon wheel should be discussed in the general trade rumours thread because nothing is imminent as we had all hoped upon the release of that article.

 

[cbcwpg]

Too bad none of the other 31 teams is answering the phone. After telling the world that the Jets won't retain any salary the Jets are trying to make a trade with no trade partners...

how likely is that going to work out?

 

[DRW204]

Imo you're taking a bath on a wheeler trade. Likely low trade return.

Wed be down a top RW, and I'd have to take a peak, but I don't think the ufa options are that appealing. Unless you make a trade from cap strapped team (ie Bailey in nyi)

However wheeler is a better player and still a serviceable top 6er, but should be away from scheifele on the ice. I think most question his leadership capabilities and the root of our team culture, which is the only reason I'd trade him. This puts even More pressure on Perfetti to put up legit top 6 numbers this year.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Sure but even other rebuilds like Yzermans in Detroit is about 4 or 5 years in now and no sign of making massive improvements out of the basement.

I guess it depends a little on how you decide to define the start of their rebuild. I don't see it as being that long ago. In 2019 they still had 6 players - and their contracts - over 34 YO and 4 more over 30. They hadn't done the tear down yet, so I don't know if you can say they had started the rebuild.

They may not be the best example because, first, they kept trying to win with their old core for a few years too long. Then they didn't really do a tear down. They waited for their older players on big contracts to play out their contracts.

I don't know of a precise way to define the length of time a team has been rebuilding if they don't do a tear down. Maybe look at the number of draft picks they have. When they start accumulating a lot of picks, they have started the rebuild.

Going by that, DRW started in 2017, so longer than I would have guesstimated.
2017, 11 - 2 in the first 2 rds
2018, 10 - 4 in the first 2 rds
2019, 11 - 4 in the first 2 rds
2020, 12 - 4
2021, 8 - 3
2022, 9 - 3
Using that criteria, they have been in rebuild for 6 years. But they didn't bottom out until 2020. Since then they have made some progress in climbing back up the ladder.

With all of those picks over those 6 drafts, they really haven't drafted very well. They have picked a few really blue-chip players, like Seider and Raymond, but not that many. That is the risk in that kind of rebuild. You need to hit on those draft picks.

 

[Jet]

Imo you're taking a bath on a wheeler trade. Likely low trade return.

Wed be down a top RW, and I'd have to take a peak, but I don't think the ufa options are that appealing. Unless you make a trade from cap strapped team (ie Bailey in nyi)

However wheeler is a better player and still a serviceable top 6er, but should be away from scheifele on the ice. I think most question his leadership capabilities and the root of our team culture, which is the only reason I'd trade him. This puts even More pressure on Perfetti to put up legit top 6 numbers this year.

I think people have to face the fact that Wheeler will play out his contract here. Good news is he hasn't fallen off a cliff and if he's used correctly he can still be an important piece in success this year.

I hope to God they convince him to relinquish the C and keep him away from Scheifele. I think that will calm the angry mob a bit and help him focus on playing good solid hockey. I also hope he limits his slow start this year because if not this place will be impossible to enjoy

 

[TS Quint]

My biggest worry is that Wheeler drags down Scheifele. I thought he was a big factor in some of Scheifele's struggles. Once the speed is gone, his neutral zone game is just not as strong. I thought teams closed on him quickly last year to force neutral zone turnovers. And Scheifele was not able to defend these mistakes adequately. Seemed like Scheif's best output came from playing with Stastny and Ehlers, and playing more of a winger type role in that scenario.

Now I don't know how much Wheeler's performance was affected by Covid, and a pretty brutal injury. But I do worry about fragility, if things start to go south.

I had a trade I was pondering today, which was Wheeler, 15% retention ($1,237,500), with Heinola for Sam Bennett, Duclair, and Florida's 2nd next year. If the Panthers buyout or LTIR Hornqvist should make it under the Cap, taking on just under $7 million of Wheeler's contract.

Works out to Heinola for Bennett straight up. Florida desperately needs a quality LD, and Zito loves Finns. He'd conceivably be top pairing there, whereas he's fighting to get into the lineup here, and might remain behind Morrissey and Samberg for the near future. Opens a route to the NHL for Chisholm, who a lot of people are high on, but who sits 6th on the current LD depth chart.

Bennett would give the Jets some toughness at forward, and provides a future 2c if Dubois gets moved at some point, not putting all the pressure on Perfetti to go from an 7 pt winger to a 2C in an instant. Coming off a career year, but that was with Huberdeau. Great value contract for last year's production, with 3 years left. Definitely built for Western Conference hockey. Panthers can afford to lose him with Lundell, and Colin White as potential replacements, basically implodes their 2nd line last year.

Duclair is injured, but could come back at a time when depth is need, in the heart of the season. Goal scoring has more potential than Wheeler, but still a lesser value based on inconsistency. Might be a nice fit with Dubois for half a season.

Getting 2 forwards (eventually) out of Wheeler's Cap space seems like a win.

I think the Jets are counting on 100 goals out of Connor, Scheifele and Ehlers, but some depth scoring goes a long way.

Team would be different in a lot of ways without Wheeler, and some of those could be positive.

I think the bigger worry is Scheifele bring Wheeler down. The world knows the Centre is the most impactful forward on the ice outside Winnipeg. Yet you look around this board and Scheifele’s wingers get the majority of the blame. Its part misunderstanding of analytics and their over inflated value and part blind finger pointing.

Wheeler‘s biggest problem (on the ice) were coaches who over played him and overinflated his ego. Wheeler is a very good 2nd line winger. 17-18 minutes/game. 22-23min through rain, wind,snow and injury hurt his play and his reputation.

 

[Teemusalami204]

Chevy isn’t a Christopher Columbus type of explorer.

Letting it be known he isn’t retaining salary is basically trying to cross the Atlantic with no half a sail . The wind is just going to take you off coarse and eventually take you back to where you started

Wheeler on the first line , first pp, and captain

 

[sipowicz]

I think people have to face the fact that Wheeler will play out his contract here. Good news is he hasn't fallen off a cliff and if he's used correctly he can still be an important piece in success this year.

I hope to God they convince him to relinquish the C and keep him away from Scheifele. I think that will calm the angry mob a bit and help him focus on playing good solid hockey. I also hope he limits his slow start this year because if not this place will be impossible to enjoy

Bottom line is that Wheeler needs to accept a diminished role on the team or it will be the same thing all over again. Problem with that is the Jet bottom six is so anemic and that never got addressed by our so called GM!

 

[Flair Hay]

Bottom line is that Wheeler needs to accept a diminished role on the team or it will be the same thing all over again. Problem with that is the Jet bottom six is so anemic and that never got addressed by our so called GM!

Yeah I get integrating young guys into our lineup. But zero additions to the bottom six is going to look awful if it's still the case when training camp starts.

 

[Flair Hay]

Chevy isn’t a Christopher Columbus type of explorer.

Letting it be known he isn’t retaining salary is basically trying to cross the Atlantic with no half a sail . The wind is just going to take you off coarse and eventually take you back to where you started

Wheeler on the first line , first pp, and captain

I imagine Wheeler is fine coming back. He has always been a team guy. I think the assumption he is too proud to play a lesser role if asked is way too pessimistic. He has his faults like any leader. But I have little doubt if Bowness sends him down to the 2nd PP he will be fine with it. A drop in ice time is coming for him Scheif and Connor too.

 

[surixon]

I guess it depends a little on how you decide to define the start of their rebuild. I don't see it as being that long ago. In 2019 they still had 6 players - and their contracts - over 34 YO and 4 more over 30. They hadn't done the tear down yet, so I don't know if you can say they had started the rebuild.

They may not be the best example because, first, they kept trying to win with their old core for a few years too long. Then they didn't really do a tear down. They waited for their older players on big contracts to play out their contracts.

I don't know of a precise way to define the length of time a team has been rebuilding if they don't do a tear down. Maybe look at the number of draft picks they have. When they start accumulating a lot of picks, they have started the rebuild.

Going by that, DRW started in 2017, so longer than I would have guesstimated.
2017, 11 - 2 in the first 2 rds
2018, 10 - 4 in the first 2 rds
2019, 11 - 4 in the first 2 rds
2020, 12 - 4
2021, 8 - 3
2022, 9 - 3
Using that criteria, they have been in rebuild for 6 years. But they didn't bottom out until 2020. Since then they have made some progress in climbing back up the ladder.

With all of those picks over those 6 drafts, they really haven't drafted very well. They have picked a few really blue-chip players, like Seider and Raymond, but not that many. That is the risk in that kind of rebuild. You need to hit on those draft picks.

Yeah I'd say they started actively rebuilding in 2018 with the Zadina topn10 pick. I brought Detroit up because I haven't been all that impressed with what they have done to date. They are a group that miffed on some top 10 picks at the beginning of their bottom out phase and as a result they are likely looking at a longer build.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Cossa Seider Edvinson are 3 nice pieces. 2 are unproven. Kasper was a nice pick and they got a couple forwards but... that Detroit roster is missing something

 

[NA Hockey]

Yeah I'd say they started actively rebuilding in 2018 with the Zadina topn10 pick. I brought Detroit up because I haven't been all that impressed with what they have done to date. They are a group that miffed on some top 10 picks at the beginning of their bottom out phase and as a result they are likely looking at a longer build.

They have built a decent prospect stable but they missed on the below which would have expedited the process. 5 straight 1st round picks with none becoming difference makers sets an organization back. If they hit on even 2 of them their team looks different.

2018 - Filip Zadina 6th OV
2018 - Joe Veleno 30th OV
2017 - Michael Rasmussen 9th OV
2016 - Dennis Cholowski 20th OV
2015 - Evgeny Svechnikov 19th OV

 

[surixon]

They have built a decent prospect stable but they missed on the below which would have expedited the process. 5 straight 1st round picks with none becoming difference makers sets an organization back. If they hit on even 2 of them their team looks different.

2018 - Filip Zadina 6th OV
2018 - Joe Veleno 30th OV
2017 - Michael Rasmussen 9th OV
2016 - Dennis Cholowski 20th OV
2015 - Evgeny Svechnikov 19th OV

Zadina and Radmussen really sting. Both are NHL players but Zadina is a middle 6 winger and Rasmussen an ok 3C. Not what you want from top 10 picks.

Still some time for guys like Zadina and Veleno to improve but not looking amazing atm.

 

[TommyKillian]

Zadina and Radmussen really sting. Both are NHL players but Zadina is a middle 6 winger and Rasmussen an ok 3C. Not what you want from top 10 picks.

Still some time for guys like Zadina and Veleno to improve but not looking amazing atm.

The most valuable thing Chevy ever did was hitting on his first pick in almost every draft. If he keeps doing that, we will be fine (there just might be a few lean years coming up). I can't think of many contenders that have whiffed on their highest picks (maybe TB taking Drouin over Seth Jones but they turned Drouin into Sergachev).

The Islanders from the early 2010s are a good example of an extended rebuild due to whiffing first picks. Just to do a straight comparison to the Jets - 2011: R. Strome over Scheifele; 2012: G. Reinhart over Trouba; 2014: Dal Colle over Ehlers. That's a TON of lost value in top 10 picks. Imagine trading R. Strome, G. Reinhart and Dal Colle for Scheifele, Trouba and Ehlers 5 years out from those drafts. If you are rebuilding, you absolutely have to hit on your high picks, even in draft years, like those listed above, that aren't expected to be great.

 

[surixon]

The most valuable thing Chevy ever did was hitting on his first pick in almost every draft. If he keeps doing that, we will be fine (there just might be a few lean years coming up). I can't think of many contenders that have whiffed on their highest picks (maybe TB taking Drouin over Seth Jones but they turned Drouin into Sergachev).

The Islanders from the early 2010s are a good example of an extended rebuild due to whiffing first picks. Just to do a straight comparison to the Jets - 2011: R. Strome over Scheifele; 2012: G. Reinhart over Trouba; 2014: Dal Colle over Ehlers. That's a TON of lost value in top 10 picks. Imagine trading R. Strome, G. Reinhart and Dal Colle for Scheifele, Trouba and Ehlers 5 years out from those drafts. If you are rebuilding, you absolutely have to hit on your high picks, even in draft years, like those listed above, that aren't expected to be great.

Exactly, which is why I just shake my head when people talk about Chevy and pick placement in round 1. He's drafted extraordinarily well in round 1 all things considered. Sure we have had a couple meh late first round picks In Ves and Stanley but he made the most of his top 10 picks and smashed Conner out of the park at 17 and got real good value at 13 in JoMo. People act like it's easy to draft where he's drafted and get high end talent. As you showed with those two examples it isn't always easy to hit in that range.

Too soon to say on the next wave but Perfetti looks great and Heinola, Lucious, McGroarty, Lambert all show promise.

 

[Fatdrunk]

Wheeler is not going anywhere. No team would want to swallow that contract of an aging NHL player. His ego will never allow him to take a lesser role and it is best for the team to find a way to buy him out if they want to move forward.

 

[SCP Guy]

Wheeler is not going anywhere. No team would want to swallow that contract of an aging NHL player. His ego will never allow him to take a lesser role and it is best for the team to find a way to buy him out if they want to move forward.

I think your statement can be elaborated on…. The Jets are unwilling to swallow the pill it would take to move Wheeler (50% retention or a grade A prospect) So it is that Jets who are not motivated enough to make the move and are okay with Wheeler returning next year. If they thought they were going to get assets back without adding or retaining they need to get their heads examined. He’s an aging vet who is still a top 6ish players, but not worth anything close to his cap hit.

 

[DRW204]

I think the bigger worry is Scheifele bring Wheeler down. The world knows the Centre is the most impactful forward on the ice outside Winnipeg. Yet you look around this board and Scheifele’s wingers get the majority of the blame. Its part misunderstanding of analytics and their over inflated value and part blind finger pointing.

Wheeler‘s biggest problem (on the ice) were coaches who over played him and overinflated his ego. Wheeler is a very good 2nd line winger. 17-18 minutes/game. 22-23min through rain, wind,snow and injury hurt his play and his reputation.

Wheeler's best recent defensive season came away from scheifele, as youvr alluded to, while at C though paired with Ehlers and Roslovic in 19-20. He needs to be away from the scheifele and Connor stack. Idk who drags down who, but the line hasn't worked.