Post-Game Talk: Jets crowned lose 3-2

[Teemusalami204]

So if the Jets and the Moose are playing the exact same systems, why are the Moose successful at it and the Jets aren't?

It doesn't take years to change the lack of accountability, all it takes is to the change the people responsible for making the players accountable. Replace the GM and all the coaches, then have the new people send the message on day #1 that everyone is accountable, done. And there are ways to make sure the players get the new message. It doesn't have to be years.

Because it’s the AHL and the rosters are all drastically different and all young players . The moose are 500 on the road and amazing at home. And even this doesn’t have any bearing.

I will ask you this .. do you trust this organization to make those changes you stated to change the entire culture ?

 

[Teemusalami204]

I'm afraid of this.

When you have some issues with players not playing the right away, you have a problem that can be addressed by the right coach. When your coaching staff doesn't address it and allows it to fester (or worse, encourages it), you have a major coaching problem that needs to be addressed by the GM stepping in and making coaching changes. When that doesn't happen for years and years... well suddenly you have a GM problem and I guess it's up to the owner to make bigger changes. And when the owner/org itself takes years to recognize that anything is wrong, well, you might just be hooped.

Unfortunately I really just don't trust this org to get it right. Why would they, when they presided over so many things that have gone wrong since 2018 without taking action?

I'm afraid next season we come out of the gate with Scheif, Wheeler and Chevy's jobs intact, and a somewhat conservative choice for coach, and choose to believe that our troubles were all really just a result of bad luck and circumstance, and 'not having the horses'. Rinse repeat?

We will hire a coach that will just keep pushing the same style and philosophy. Nothing is going to change.

 

[Jack7222]

That was my point. The team is more bad than good. A LOT needs to be changed. Moving out Scheifele wont make enough of a difference. Trading the Harkins and Vesalainens wont make much of a difference. Chevy is going to have to shake the team to its' core.

I dont look to trade Ehlers. I would listen to offers. The price would be very high.

How does trading Ehlers help anything though? How could trading Ehlers ever take the team from "bad" to "good"? It's not like Ehlers is someone who is just not fitting in here who could be leveraged to get value elsewhere... I highly doubt you'd even be able to recoup the value brought by one of our lone playdrivers, nevermind take a step toward actually changing our fortunes.

If you think the team is truly bad and a ways away in terms of skill and talent, you're talking rebuild, not trades, IMO. Then you get rid of everyone and go younger and draft picks and move your window forward 5 years.

If you think there is a culture problem or a buy-in problem on the team, you do everything you can to keep guys like Ehlers.

If you think the team is unbalanced and doesn't have enough play driving, you do everything you can to keep guys like Ehlers.

Just imo.

 

[kanadalainen]

Ehlers was on fire last night. So many beautiful set-ups that weren’t converted by his line mates. He brings so much to this team. No way we trade him.
Someone also posted that Josh Morrissey isn’t used properly. I totally agree with that. He has way more offensive potential than what he is usually allowed to show. He’s been doing it more lately and it’s great to see the old Josh back. Heinola in that same category obviously.
It’s hard to think about getting rid of Scheifele but I think we have to be honest with ourselves and admit that he’s not the same player that he was in this first few years, for whatever reason.
I would definitely take some younger players that are ready to start now in place of Scheifele and build around a core of Connor, Perfetti, Ehlers, Morrissey, Heinola, Hellebuyck, Dubois.
That’s a terrific core.

Its one thing to watch him on a home screen, quite another to see him play live. I was close to ice level and his speed (winding up from our own end to effortlessly gain the zone) and ability to cut and juke is absolutely breathtaking. Also his feeds are sometimes too quick for his team mates. A brilliant player.

 

[jgimp]

So if the Jets and the Moose are playing the exact same systems, why are the Moose successful at it and the Jets aren't?

It doesn't take years to change the lack of accountability, all it takes is to the change the people responsible for making the players accountable. Replace the GM and all the coaches, then have the new people send the message on day #1 that everyone is accountable, done. And there are ways to make sure the players get the new message. It doesn't have to be years.

As someone who has worked in a poisonous environment, all it takes (sometimes) is for that one, as it’s usually one who spoils the bunch, to be held accountable. Whether it be personnel movement, disciplined with time off, whatever and morale increases exponentially.
I agree that we need to completely revamp the coaching staff. Get rid of ANYONE who was part of the PoMo years as they will be far too cemented with the years of mediocrity that we have all been witness to. I’m alright with Chevy (for now) as dealing with the poisonous apple and hiring a new coaching staff should be plenty of warning to the others and should straighten up the room plenty!

 

[Guffman]

If you’re wearing a letter, you can’t half-ass it like Schiefele. I agree that a leadership change is needed. Some will come from a coach but I do think Schiefele and/or Wheeler should be moved.

BTW, this isn’t a rebuild scenario. We do have a lot of talent.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

So if the Jets and the Moose are playing the exact same systems, why are the Moose successful at it and the Jets aren't?

It doesn't take years to change the lack of accountability, all it takes is to the change the people responsible for making the players accountable. Replace the GM and all the coaches, then have the new people send the message on day #1 that everyone is accountable, done. And there are ways to make sure the players get the new message. It doesn't have to be years.

Have the Moose been successful at it? Not much, prior to this year. This year's Moose has had a very strong D corps. Not so much up front. Previous years they have been stronger at F and weaker on D. I don't know how the effects of that shakes out. But they have also been weak in goal this year and are still doing very well. How can that be?

 

[King Woodballs]

Thy powerless play was beyond embarassing.

 

[Jetland162702]

I keep looking 8 hours south to Winnipeg. Parise/Sutter gone…the dividends have followed

I also look 12 hours west to Calgary who missed the playoffs last year. They did not blow it up and revamp their culture over many arduous years. They made a few key changes, including head coach, and now they are viewed as contenders by many.
I don't know if that will happen to us next year but I think we have tons of talent and with a few key changes, we could be viewed in a similar light next season.
I guess we will just have to wait and see.

 

[Mud Turtle]

Its one thing to watch him on a home screen, quite another to see him play live. I was close to ice level and his speed (winding up from our own end to effortlessly gain the zone) and ability to cut and juke is absolutely breathtaking. Also his feeds are sometimes too quick for his team mates. A brilliant player.

I’ve been thinking the same thing about his passes. That was especially on display yesterday and he set up numerous players with great scoring chances.
The problem is that he was the only one that saw them coming. Several teammates were not ready because nobody could have expected those incredible set ups.

 

[GNP]

If you’re wearing a letter, you can’t half-ass it like Schiefele. I agree that a leadership change is needed. Some will come from a coach but I do think Schiefele and/or Wheeler should be moved.

BTW, this isn’t a rebuild scenario. We do have a lot of talent.

I agree that this team is stacked with talent - from the Goaltender, right up to the forwards, and when Perfetti gets settled in with the team will be great. We "need" one major change, and that's at the coaching level, and all it's assistant coaches.

That's all basically Calgary did by hiring Sutter, other than getting rid of one player, and they want from around last, to first place. This is where I'd start, but right off the bat, I'd likely unload Stastny, as he pretty much aged out. I'd also give serious thought on unloading Wheeler, and getting a new Captain, as his best days are well behind him. Don't think you'd get much for him ?

I think this team on paper is very solid, but you just need a coach that can pull it all together.

 

[DRW204]

I'd say both Calgary and Minnesota have=>Fwd and a superior d group than us. With Helle on a down year for his standards, our goaltending as well hasn't been enough to overcome this. I think it's bad coaching and not good enough talent, and evidently coaching can influence your talent to overplay their individual standards or expectations.

 

[NorCalhockey]

This is one of the worst sporting seasons for me in a while:
* no playoffs for Jets (shortest window ever!?)
* Everton will likely be relegated

If my USA go 0-3 in the World Cup later this year, that completes the hat trick of sports suckage.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I just think that a new HC needs to have a chance to work with this core sure a piece can be moved but I don's see this org going nuclear and rebuilding at least not next year

Is this a prediction thread or one where people are expressing their take on what should be done?

I don't see this org going nuclear either. Whether they should or not is another question. I'm not sure of the answer. Some have expressed the idea that it would be unfair to the new coach to expect him to come in and clean up this mess. Another idea I am unsure of.

Lets look at it piece by piece and see what it adds up to.
All new coaching staff? check
Move Scheifele? check
New captain? check

That could be all that is required in terms of the rebuild/retool. But I think that if we take the C from Wheeler we should probably move him too, if possible. That is unless he is onboard with that change. I don't expect that he will be though. JMO. Assuming he does not like giving up the C, he would probably expand his list of acceptable landing places. I think that if we retain heavily (I would go to 50% if necessary) there would be some teams willing to give up something worthwhile in exchange. He is still a near ppg, big bodied, RW who can also play C. At 4.25 mil for just 2 more years, there should be teams that would want him.

There is more that is not directly related to that culture change. I think we should move both Dillon and Schmidt. In hindsight, we never should have acquired them. We could have kept the picks, the money and the cap space and filled the holes internally. Water under the bridge now, but lets get rid of the money and the cap space and fill the spots, either internally or in return on some of the trades. They are just in the way now.

I could stop there. Is that a rebuild or a retool? Scheifele, Wheeler, Dillon and Schmidt out. It may depend on the returns to define it as either. Futures, it is a rebuild. Replacement players, it is a retool.

The one remaining question in my mind is Hellebuyck. If we are going to compete within 2 years, I guess we should keep him. But if not, he would bring a substantial return. The other gotcha there would be if Helle has decided he wants out. Gotta trade him sooner rather than later in that case. And if we move Helle it IS a rebuild.

Edit: BTW, if we move Helle and Stastny does not return, we have moved the 6 oldest players on the current roster. Lowry #6 and DeMelo is #8. They would become #s 1&2 after those moves, unless we get older players in the returns somewhere.

 

[Heldig]

How does trading Ehlers help anything though? How could trading Ehlers ever take the team from "bad" to "good"? It's not like Ehlers is someone who is just not fitting in here who could be leveraged to get value elsewhere... I highly doubt you'd even be able to recoup the value brought by one of our lone playdrivers, nevermind take a step toward actually changing our fortunes.

If you think the team is truly bad and a ways away in terms of skill and talent, you're talking rebuild, not trades, IMO. Then you get rid of everyone and go younger and draft picks and move your window forward 5 years.

If you think there is a culture problem or a buy-in problem on the team, you do everything you can to keep guys like Ehlers.

If you think the team is unbalanced and doesn't have enough play driving, you do everything you can to keep guys like Ehlers.

Just imo.

Again, I would not trade him for hopes and wishes for the sake of making a trade. I simply opined that the only untouchables in my view are Dubois and Connor (and maybe Morrissey).

If a team offered a top pairing RHD, under 28 and signed for several years at a good cap, I consider that.

Maybe that elusive RHD can be acquired in the Scheifele trade and the Jets build the 2nd line around Perfetti + Ehlers.

 

[LowLefty]

I’ve been thinking the same thing about his passes. That was especially on display yesterday and he set up numerous players with great scoring chances.
The problem is that he was the only one that saw them coming. Several teammates were not ready because nobody could have expected those incredible set ups.

He's an unpredictable player - and that makes it hard for others to play with him.
More often than not, he is looking for the shot and not paying a lot of attention to his line mates.
He loves to carry the puck (or cut to) to the slot - that's his go to move and he tries his best to make that work as his first option.

He's a dazzling player but he is not easy to play with - because his linemates do not see a lot of consistency in his passing options. He rarely is making a play with line mates off the rush - he's heading for the slot.
When he is in situations where he runs out of room, he'll look for an option.
When on the PP (especially PP1), he's a completely different animal - he is much more of a playmaker - we saw some of that last night with KC out and him in on PP1

I also noticed last night, that he was making more plays off the rush - his line mates won't be long in adapting if he sticks with that option more often.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Was at the game.

That first period. Yikes.

I don't remember much of the rest tbh. But JFC how many games has it been during this tail end of the year that they do not show up in the first like that?

How many was it earlier in the year too?

 

[johnnyonthspot]

Any player on this team can be traded but that's not what they need. The coaching staff on this team is a massive fail and has been for a while now, a new hc who is an outsider and brings in his own staff and a few tweaks and this team should be back in the playoff discussion next year. As for Ehlers I would rather not as my favorite player on the club but if some team wants to overpay for him, bye bye.

I agree. I am not saying trade him for a bucket of pucks but see what the market is for him vs. No.55.

 

[kcin94]

I agree that this team is stacked with talent - from the Goaltender, right up to the forwards, and when Perfetti gets settled in with the team will be great. We "need" one major change, and that's at the coaching level, and all it's assistant coaches.

That's all basically Calgary did by hiring Sutter, other than getting rid of one player, and they want from around last, to first place. This is where I'd start, but right off the bat, I'd likely unload Stastny, as he pretty much aged out. I'd also give serious thought on unloading Wheeler, and getting a new Captain, as his best days are well behind him. Don't think you'd get much for him ?

I think this team on paper is very solid, but you just need a coach that can pull it all together.

If you get a cup of coffee for Wheeler then you move him. However, the team will have to pay, and pay significantly to move that contract which just isn't worth it. If we had a coach that would play him in the right role (2nd/3rd line RW and PP2 guy) then he can ride his last two years out just fine here.

Quite frankly, I'm fine with X 55 26 as our 2nd line next year, but they need to be played as a 2nd line unless they show they can be a first line, not get 1st line minute/responsibilities by default anymore. Dubios has shown he's our #1 center and until Scheif can prove otherwise, it needs to stay that way.

 

[Ggg99]

….. next season we come out of the gate with Scheif, Wheeler and Chevy's jobs intact, and a somewhat conservative choice for coach….

I think you nailed it. Based on their history of being conservative and loyal I would bet on the above playing out.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I’ve been thinking the same thing about his passes. That was especially on display yesterday and he set up numerous players with great scoring chances.
The problem is that he was the only one that saw them coming. Several teammates were not ready because nobody could have expected those incredible set ups.

They've been playing with Ehlers long enough that they should have learned to expect the unexpected. No excuse.

 

[raideralex99]

This team has NO heart and that's on the coaching staff.
The Kings went to the net even crashed Hellebuyck and the Jets D did nothing. Meanwhile the Jets forwards just stand at the side of the LA's net trying to reach for the puck because the Kings D blocks them out.
Kings are 28th on the PP and they go 1/3.
Kings are 23rd on the PK and they are a perfect 6/6 with a shorthanded goal.
All of the Kings goals came by going to the net on a soft Jets D. I know the GWG was a fluke but if there was a rebound look who has position. Great coaching Charlie.

 

[bumblebeeman]

If you get a cup of coffee for Wheeler then you move him. However, the team will have to pay, and pay significantly to move that contract which just isn't worth it. If we had a coach that would play him in the right role (2nd/3rd line RW and PP2 guy) then he can ride his last two years out just fine here.

Quite frankly, I'm fine with X 55 26 as our 2nd line next year, but they need to be played as a 2nd line unless they show they can be a first line, not get 1st line minute/responsibilities by default anymore. Dubios has shown he's our #1 center and until Scheif can prove otherwise, it needs to stay that way.

I'm not sure if Dubois + Ehlers getting 2 more minutes a game, and Scheif + Wheeler getting 2 less minutes a game will make a difference. I think the Jets retained on Wheeler they could get a lot for him in a trade, he still produces like a top 10 RW in the league. I'm not sure how they replace that production tho, maybe Perfetti can do it.

 

[Stumbledore]

We will hire a coach that will just keep pushing the same style and philosophy. Nothing is going to change.

Must be nice to be able to predict the future like this.

So how come you're not rich?

 

[tbcwpg]

I keep looking 8 hours south to Winnipeg. Parise/Sutter gone…the dividends have followed

Those dividends dry up next season with $12m in dead cap and then $14m for each of the following 2 years. I like their team but it's going to look much different after this season.

I also look 12 hours west to Calgary who missed the playoffs last year. They did not blow it up and revamp their culture over many arduous years. They made a few key changes, including head coach, and now they are viewed as contenders by many.
I don't know if that will happen to us next year but I think we have tons of talent and with a few key changes, we could be viewed in a similar light next season.
I guess we will just have to wait and see.

Calgary wasn't very good last year with a similar lineup and coach. This year they're great. They have to pay Tkachuk this summer and Gaudreau is a UFA. We'll see how they do next year. You could be right that we just need a new coach. I think we should hope that's the case because major lineup changes are unlikely.

Must be nice to be able to predict the future like this.

So how come you're not rich?

The benefit of pessimism. If you're right you can say how knowledgeable you are. If you're wrong, you get to be "pleasantly surprised". It's a no lose scenario, except for, you know, bringing down the joy of people around you.