Confirmed with Link: Jets/Buffalo Blockbuster! (Kane and Bogo - mod warning in OP)

[Mathmew Purrrr Oh]

I'm oddly encouraged by the lack of consensus about these two prospects. Probably just blind optimism at this point, not to mention counter-intuitive, but I think if the Jets and Sabres had different impressions of these players then that might be a good thing for the Jets.

Or not.

Not sure why, but I like this post a lot.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Well, Foligno was untouchable in this trade, so that wasn't gonna happen.

Apparently Murray said that but it just doesn't make sense. Foligno is a 4th round pick playing 3rd line minutes. He has 11 pts in 30 games and that with an unsustainable SH%. He is a consistent minus player (I know it is +- and it is Buffalo), a negative in GA/TA, etc. He is big and hits a lot. How does that add up to an untouchable on any team ever? They would keep that and let Lemieux go? Just not believable. He would have some value to us in our bottom 6 for the rest of this year but would probably have to fight for a 4th line job next year.

 

[Positive]

Well, after tonight's loss, I was thinking...if we don't make it in, we still stocked the cupboards a little. So, I'm still good with this deal.

 

[Aavco Cup]

81% like it or love it. That's a very positive review of the trade.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Bogosian and Lindback could lead them to a ten game win streak

It could happen.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

He was articulate, insightful, and detailed that he understood the game had changed and is changing for players like him. Seems more than aware that doing whatever he may prefer won't work at the next level. Really well spoken and had positive things to say about Scheifele and others.

He really could exceed Armia. Time will tell.

 

[Bps21*]

Apparently Murray said that but it just doesn't make sense. Foligno is a 4th round pick playing 3rd line minutes. He has 11 pts in 30 games and that with an unsustainable SH%. He is a consistent minus player (I know it is +- and it is Buffalo), a negative in GA/TA, etc. He is big and hits a lot. How does that add up to an untouchable on any team ever? They would keep that and let Lemieux go? Just not believable. He would have some value to us in our bottom 6 for the rest of this year but would probably have to fight for a 4th line job next year.

He meant to say Girgensons. He answered the same question later in the day and it was Girgensons. His untouchables were the 5 you'd have thought they were (the sabres 1, Reinhart, ristolainen, zadorov and Girgensons). He also said it didn't end up mattering because your GM knew who he was targeting and never moved off of Armia and Lemieux. Not coincidentally...they were our top LW and RW prospects. We have some other RWs behind Armia in the pipeline that I'm excited to see develop too...but at LW we are barren now.

 

[PhilJets]

He meant to say Girgensons. He answered the same question later in the day and it was Girgensons. His untouchables were the 5 you'd have thought they were (the sabres 1, Reinhart, ristolainen, zadorov and Girgensons). He also said it didn't end up mattering because your GM knew who he was targeting and never moved off of Armia and Lemieux. Not coincidentally...they were our top LW and RW prospects. We have some other RWs behind Armia in the pipeline that I'm excited to see develop too...but at LW we are barren now.

How about Grigorenko?

 

[Bps21*]

Like Armia they've had him working on an all around game. He's gotten better but he wasn't as good as Armia had turned into yet. I don't know what Grigorenko's future is. He turned his attitude around and put in a lot of work so some of the character questions went away. I just never know where he fits. If buffalo drafts top 2 they take one of the Cs obviously. They have Reinhart coming and Girgensons here. I think Girgensons probably goes to wing in this case since I don't see him not playing top 6 minutes. Can grigorenko be a #3 C? Maybe. In the long run whatever the line numbers are Reinhart will be the guy in shutdown spots. So maybe. Can he play wing? I have no idea.

He's been a square peg in a round hole for a while.

Personally, Ive been thinking he could be moved since Murray came in. He never sounds that high on him. He did always sound high on Armia and he got moved...so grigorenko is definitely in play IMO.

 

[KingBogo]

He meant to say Girgensons. He answered the same question later in the day and it was Girgensons. His untouchables were the 5 you'd have thought they were (the sabres 1, Reinhart, ristolainen, zadorov and Girgensons). He also said it didn't end up mattering because your GM knew who he was targeting and never moved off of Armia and Lemieux. Not coincidentally...they were our top LW and RW prospects. We have some other RWs behind Armia in the pipeline that I'm excited to see develop too...but at LW we are barren now.

I like to hear that. Chevy is deliberate and saw 2 pieces that the Jets needed. A scoring winger and a **** disturber. Both developing well.

 

[Bps21*]

You could kind of tell by the way Murray was talking about it that he wished Kane had played for a team with a GM he could have talked into different prospects. Murray flatly admitted these were the top wingers in the system and he knows it was no small price he paid. But he said that's why we spent all the time building the pool so deep...to move for guys older with more experience so the rebuild wasn't going on forever. Still tough though...with the sabres being so bad I've spent a lot of time following our prospects. Gonna miss seeing tweets every game about how Lemieux scored another two goals lol. And Armia was the one of all the ahl guys that I liked most by a pretty fair margin.

Honestly I think Murray knows Girgensons is going to end up at wing down the line which is why he just decided to go with it.

 

[KingBogo]

You could kind of tell by the way Murray was talking about it that he wished Kane had played for a team with a GM he could have talked into different prospects. Murray flatly admitted these were the top wingers in the system and he knows it was no small price he paid. But he said that's why we spent all the time building the pool so deep...to move for guys older with more experience so the rebuild wasn't going on forever. Still tough though...with the sabres being so bad I've spent a lot of time following our prospects. Gonna miss seeing tweets every game about how Lemieux scored another two goals lol. And Armia was the one of all the ahl guys that I liked most by a pretty fair margin.

Honestly I think Murray knows Girgensons is going to end up at wing down the line which is why he just decided to go with it.

Thanks Bps, really appreciate your posts and the insight into the new Jets. I hope you guys get what you need form Bogo and Kane. A couple years ago I would have thought it an impossibility to trade both Kane and Bogo. Both are great players.

 

[Sweech]

The more I think about this trade the more I like it.

I'd switch my answer to "Love it" if I could.

 

[mondo3]

I for one hope that we don't trade the first round pick we got from Buffalo. We've been drafting pretty well recently so I could see us getting someone even better than Petan in a deep draft. Now if we trade both of our first round picks to move up a number of spots, then that would be acceptable.

 

[KingBogo]

I for one hope that we don't trade the first round pick we got from Buffalo. We've been drafting pretty well recently so I could see us getting someone even better than Petan in a deep draft. Now if we trade both of our first round picks to move up a number of spots, then that would be acceptable.

Agreed I'd like to keep both round picks or use both to move up if there is a player Chevy really wants. But I'd be more open to using our 2nd or better yet our 3rd and late round pick to get us a decent player at the TD. Let's not forget we got Frolik with a 3rd and 5th.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

I don't understand how we could end up with anything other than Buffalo's worst 1st round pick. If they did trade another one, would they not trade the 2nd worst pick? That still leaves us with the worst one.

Say they trade the islanders pick, and the islanders win their division and go to the SCF, while St. Louis loses in the first round.

That still doesn't make sense to me.

Let's say they do trade another 1st round pick (not the best one). They have these options:

• Trade the islanders pick
• Trade the St. Louis pick
• Trade the 2nd best pick (whatever that ends up being)

Any single one of these options is the same for Buffalo. However, option 3 ("Trade the 2nd best pick") would have the highest trade value. So it makes no sense that they would do a deal for anything other than that, because they would get more in return. Otherwise, they're shooting themselves in the foot to give Winnipeg a better draft pick.

This means we will get the 3rd best pick, regardless of where the Isles and the Blues finish.

 

[Gm0ney]

That still doesn't make sense to me.

Let's say they do trade another 1st round pick (not the best one). They have these options:

• Trade the islanders pick
• Trade the St. Louis pick
• Trade the 2nd best pick (whatever that ends up being)

Any single one of these options is the same for Buffalo. However, option 3 ("Trade the 2nd best pick") would have the highest trade value. So it makes no sense that they would do a deal for anything other than that, because they would get more in return.

This means we will get the 3rd best pick, regardless of where the Isles and the Blues finish.

Did they trade the worst pick or just say it was their option on which pick to send to the Jets? That is, all they have to do is trade the Jets a 1st round pick in the 2015 draft before the draft. Say the Isles and the Blues both get bounced in the 2nd round. Why couldn't they trade those two picks to the Stanley Cup finalists and then give us the 29th or 30th overall? And why wouldn't they if they could turn a 20th they couldn't use into a 29th and a 3rd rounder or something?

 

[Puckatron 3000]

Did they trade the worst pick or just say it was their option on which pick to send to the Jets? That is, all they have to do is trade the Jets a 1st round pick in the 2015 draft before the draft. Say the Isles and the Blues both get bounced in the 2nd round. Why couldn't they trade those two picks to the Stanley Cup finalists and then give us the 29th or 30th overall? And why wouldn't they if they could turn a 20th they couldn't use into a 29th and a 3rd rounder or something?

Heh, sneaky loophole.
My understanding though, is that we get whichever of the (Buffalo, Isles, Blues) 1st round picks is the lowest.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Heh, sneaky loophole.
My understanding though, is that we get whichever of the (Buffalo, Isles, Blues) 1st round picks is the lowest.

It's Buffalo's choice. So if they traded the other pick to a team in their division or conference they could choose to give us the better one.

 

[KingBogo]

Did they trade the worst pick or just say it was their option on which pick to send to the Jets? That is, all they have to do is trade the Jets a 1st round pick in the 2015 draft before the draft. Say the Isles and the Blues both get bounced in the 2nd round. Why couldn't they trade those two picks to the Stanley Cup finalists and then give us the 29th or 30th overall? And why wouldn't they if they could turn a 20th they couldn't use into a 29th and a 3rd rounder or something?

My understanding is it is Sabre's choice out of their current picks. They can supply us with whatever first round pick they choose. You'd have to think there is language that they can't move the picks without designating which pick goes to the Jets. We'd have to assume then it will be which ever one is lowest between the Blues and NYI that goes to the Jets.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

It's Buffalo's choice. So if they traded the other pick to a team in their division or conference they could choose to give us the better one.

Well... wishful thinking.

I can't imagine any reasonable scenario in which that could happen. I get that you want to screw the teams in your own division or conference. But not to the extent that you'd sabotage your own trade assets (and return) to do it.

 

[pucka lucka]

Did they trade the worst pick or just say it was their option on which pick to send to the Jets? That is, all they have to do is trade the Jets a 1st round pick in the 2015 draft before the draft. Say the Isles and the Blues both get bounced in the 2nd round. Why couldn't they trade those two picks to the Stanley Cup finalists and then give us the 29th or 30th overall? And why wouldn't they if they could turn a 20th they couldn't use into a 29th and a 3rd rounder or something?

If it's not linked one of those exact picks they currently own, Chevy might be playin' checkers if you get me.

 

[JetsOilersfan]

Late to the party - reading some comments from initial reaction to now. My fav is how so many of you though/think Bogo is better then Myers. I think Bogo is more physical - but in case some you weren't born yet, let me fill you on an Islanders dman who was, literally, a human pilon. After a couple of years, they got so frustrated with him they practically gave him away to the Ottawa Senators. Sens' had him for awhile, and while his play improved there by quite a bit, he still wasn't the 'dominant' dman they had expected him to be, so they in turn traded him to the Bruins, and the rest is history.

Now, I'm not saying that Myers is the next Zdeno Chara - he doesn't have Chara's nastiness, but he has his wing span, and the Jets have a great teacher in Huddy that I know will improve his game. That + not having to be 'the man' in Wpg - Chevy hit a HOME RUN getting Myers - you watch.

KrazyKanuck - lets see, you said Buffalo wins the trade now. Really? Tell me how, I'd love to hear your detail. Here's some detail for you - Evander Kane will help Buffalo as much as YOU will this year NOT AT ALL - same with Wpg. Did you miss the fact he had SURGERY on his royally screwed SHOULDER and is gone till June - and that's for re-hab. He'll be lucky to be back in form by next Christmas. Don't take my word for it, call up Taylor Hall or Ryan Nugent Hopkins, they can fill you in, and their shoulders were in better shape than Kane's is. So Drew Stafford, unless he gets knocked out for season soon is a WIN for Winnipeg for this year - no contest.

And Bogo has played average of 53 games per year over they past 5 - Myers - 71 games. Bogo has a history of injuries - Myers won the Calder trophy - and has been The #1 guy on the Sabres back end - a terrible terrible team to boot. I say at the absolute worse this is a saw off for this year, and in the future I think Myers will be the better of the two.

The the prospects the Jets got - and you think Buffalo wins now? [mod]

 

[KingBogo]

Late to the party - reading some comments from initial reaction to now. My fav is how so many of you though/think Bogo is better then Myers. I think Bogo is more physical - but in case some you weren't born yet, let me fill you on an Islanders dman who was, literally, a human pilon. After a couple of years, they got so frustrated with him they practically gave him away to the Ottawa Senators. Sens' had him for awhile, and while his play improved there by quite a bit, he still wasn't the 'dominant' dman they had expected him to be, so they in turn traded him to the Bruins, and the rest is history.

Now, I'm not saying that Myers is the next Zdeno Chara - he doesn't have Chara's nastiness, but he has his wing span, and the Jets have a great teacher in Huddy that I know will improve his game. That + not having to be 'the man' in Wpg - Chevy hit a HOME RUN getting Myers - you watch.

KrazyKanuck - lets see, you said Buffalo wins the trade now. Really? Tell me how, I'd love to hear your detail. Here's some detail for you - Evander Kane will help Buffalo as much as YOU will this year NOT AT ALL - same with Wpg. Did you miss the fact he had SURGERY on his royally screwed SHOULDER and is gone till June - and that's for re-hab. He'll be lucky to be back in form by next Christmas. Don't take my word for it, call up Taylor Hall or Ryan Nugent Hopkins, they can fill you in, and their shoulders were in better shape than Kane's is. So Drew Stafford, unless he gets knocked out for season soon is a WIN for Winnipeg for this year - no contest.

And Bogo has played average of 53 games per year over they past 5 - Myers - 71 games. Bogo has a history of injuries - Myers won the Calder trophy - and has been The #1 guy on the Sabres back end - a terrible terrible team to boot. I say at the absolute worse this is a saw off for this year, and in the future I think Myers will be the better of the two.

The the prospects the Jets got - and you think Buffalo wins now? [mod]

I'm curious how you came to your number. Not counting this season Bogo has played 305 NHL games over the previous 5 seasons for an average of 61 games per season. Myers has played 318 NHL games for an average 63.6 games per season. This season Myers has played 48 games to Bogo's 41, which will barely shift the above numbers.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Eye Test: Who's better—Tyler Myers or Zach Bogosian?