Post-Game Talk: Jets bedeviled, lose in Jersey 4-2

[CorgisPer60]

Re: the line "adjustments".
I'm all in for having the scoring spread out over at least three lines and I would imagine that Bowness will not abandon his "experiment" after just one game. (I guess we'll find out tonight.) However, filling in the "scoring pair" lines with fourth line/waiver pickups is probably not a recipe for success. I'm reluctantly willing to give it a few more games but I believe Chevy has to make probably two trades.

This is my entire issue with it. There's no reason for any 4th line grinder to be in a top line role, especially waiver wire pick ups. I've wanted RW depth all goddamn season. We have Ehlers and Wheeler. That's it. No one else is a decent top-9 RW. Appleton doesn't move the needle. Kuhlman sucks ass. AJF is fast, but that's it. Maenalanen is terrible.

It’s funny for all the talk of bottom six scoring that the first guys we’ve cut have always been the ones producing the most offense in those roles…and the guys most effective when moved up to play with the scoring lines.

Harkins, Eyssimont, AJF

We still have two of those guys. At what point do you cut Kuhlman, Saku and bring those guys back?

I have no clue what Bowness is doing there. The only solution I can come up with is that he has a type that he likes in the bottom 6 role, and those guys don't do what he wants them to do. The people that do what he wants them to do are terrible at the other aspects of the game. Harkins is the best out of all of them, and he's now in the minors for reasons.

 

[Mud Turtle]

But I agree that the players are gripping their sticks too tight in the offensive end right now.

Gripping their sticks so tightly that they’re breaking them in half with an empty net.

 

[bustamente]

I can see why they let Appleton go to the Kraken, not sure why they brought him back, invisible at best

 

[WaveRaven]

It seems to me that we have seen this year after year. They are first half tigers but when the real hockey starts they become tabby cats. We don't have the right mix.

I sure hope they don't waste future assets on this team unless they are part of a long term solution.

 

[Stumbledore]

The bottom 6 is back to the point where they're not scoring, they're not hitting, and they're not even blocking shots.

And yet, on the TV that I watch, they show replays of us hitting and us blocking shots at most commercial breaks.

 

[KingBogo]

Besides a lack of depth scoring, PLD's drop off from being the dominant beast he was in the 1st half of the season has had a huge impact on this team. Someone pegged it even since the Habs game that he has dropped off and that sounds about right. Last night he was particularly bad. PLD's underlying numbers from last night: 26.67 CF%, 16.75 xGF% and 14.29 HDCF%, with only 1 HD chance when he was on the ice compared to 6 against. These numbers are almost the flip of some of his dominant games earlier in the season.

 

[DRW204]

It’s funny for all the talk of bottom six scoring that the first guys we’ve cut have always been the ones producing the most offense in those roles…and the guys most effective when moved up to play with the scoring lines.

Harkins, Eyssimont, AJF

We still have two of those guys. At what point do you cut Kuhlman, Saku and bring those guys back?

Also when do you give Barron a shot with one of Schiefele-Perfetti or Connor-Dubois for an extended period?

Kuhlman is a reliable role player, but I mean we aren’t losing anything much if we lost him.

Saku makes one play a game with his big frame that makes you think “holy shit when this guy figures it out he’s going to be an awesome NHLer.” But he’s so inconsistent it’s pretty obvious he doesn’t belong.

To me, I did like Harkins during his short stint this year. AJF is whatever. I didn't mind Eyssimont.

At the end of the day though They're all playing one or two lines above their weight. Saku is 28, was out of the nhl for three full years prior to this. Idk how much "he's going to figure it out" left.

 

[Inanna]

If they fix the powerplay, they fix the Jets.

I don't have the inclination or skills or patience to wade through an ocean of stats, but I think we've scored perhaps 4 goals on our last 35 powerplays. I'll wager that if we had scored closer to 8-9 goals against that many chances, we'd be sitting in first place right now with about 72-74 points.

 

[surixon]

Besides a lack of depth scoring, PLD's drop off from being the dominant beast he was in the 1st half of the season has had a huge impact on this team. Someone pegged it even since the Habs game that he has dropped off and that sounds about right. Last night he was particularly bad. PLD's underlying numbers from last night: 26.67 CF%, 16.75 xGF% and 14.29 HDCF%, with only 1 HD chance when he was on the ice compared to 6 against. These numbers are almost the flip of some of his dominant games earlier in the season.

He's been really off since the break. Interesting that this is the second year in row now that he's faded down the stretch.

 

[KingBogo]

He's been really off since the break. Interesting that this is the second year in row now that he's faded down the stretch.

I wonder if it can be a conditioning issue? I'd prefer that over him starting to check out.

 

[DRW204]

I remember back in Dec when posters would just casually throw out PLD was a 40 goal 100 pt forward.

What's his point pace now? Consecutive year he's begun to fade down the stretch when this team needs him. And then consider how he was awful in the Canadian Division playoffs.

The guy is great but you'd think with all the acclaim, and how posters constantly talk him up he'd step up when this team needs him most.

 

[Jack7222]

I want three scoring lines as well but we don't have the complimentary pieces to make it work. Chevy has a job to do over the next week or so.

But I agree that the players are gripping their sticks too tight in the offensive end right now.

To me, these complimentary pieces are what we should be after, rather than Boeser or Meier. They shouldn't be all that expensive; Svetchnikov was perfect for Dubois / Connor for example. We just need a couple of players who have decent hands and can grind a little and make a pass, and aren't just waiver-wire fodder.

Also think we need to at least have the option to push Lowry down. When your best bottom 6 player isn't quite good enough for 3rd line you have a problem.

 

[bustamente]

Scheifele is back to extending his shifts and last night it hurt the team, Bones needs to get a handle on this, as for PLD his drop off once again would be a huge concern in terms of signing him long term if that even happens. Personally I think his sole focus is playing out the year and telling the Jets he is not signing long term here.

 

[ecolad]

Besides a lack of depth scoring, PLD's drop off from being the dominant beast he was in the 1st half of the season has had a huge impact on this team. Someone pegged it even since the Habs game that he has dropped off and that sounds about right. Last night he was particularly bad. PLD's underlying numbers from last night: 26.67 CF%, 16.75 xGF% and 14.29 HDCF%, with only 1 HD chance when he was on the ice compared to 6 against. These numbers are almost the flip of some of his dominant games earlier in the season.

Agree, The sad thing is that no team can compete consistently with what is effectively a sub-par 2nd and 3rd line. With PLD in a funk and with Lowry simply continuing to under-perform, we are left with problems at C on both lines. And if you really stop to think about this, as the games get more competitive near season end, it it is often the 2nd and 3rd lines that contribute more and more to team success.

 

[JetsUK]

To me, I did like Harkins during his short stint this year. AJF is whatever. I didn't mind Eyssimont.

At the end of the day though They're all playing one or two lines above their weight. Saku is 28, was out of the nhl for three full years prior to this. Idk how much "he's going to figure it out" left.

Harkins is a puzzling player. Has the brain, many of the tools in his speed and positional play, works like hell, but can't seem to put it all together consistently at the NHL level, despite his success in A.

But I can't remember him being worse at any point than KK and The SakMan are now, and least he and AJF bring some disruptive speed and forechecking, which on the evidence of the last few games, we sorely need.

Orgs and coaches have their blind spots, and their guys. To his credit Bowness has navigated these pretty well thus far, including on the back end where Samberg has deservedly stayed in and had a chance to develop his game.

But no team is going to supercharge their scoring by running tweeners in their top 9, let alone top 6, and I'd have way more faith in Gagner, Harkins and/or AJF as guys who can chase and retrieve pucks and then have some idea what to do with it than I do in SakMan and KK.

Stenlund wins faceoffs so there's that, I guess.

But at the moment even a semi-retired Gagner brings more than any of the lunchpail guys we're currently running -- and makes me tear up at the memories of prime Armia, Tanev and especially 4th-line Jesus.

Bowness has made some strides with this team. But we're still running a 6/6 with a checking line and a stop-the-play-in-its-tracks line, and expecting all of our scoring to come from 6 guys and JMo. That is not a recipe for playoff success unless that top 6 includes a Kucherov, Kane, MacKinnon, etc.

Maybe we're waiting for that 25-man roster. But I think the team needs speed and some scoring support, and while I'm fine in theory with the line pairs + digger idea, you'd better make sure that your digger can keep up with the play and contribute to the scoreline.

Hopefully we see some meaningful changes soon. At least Bowness seems more receptive to change than the previous regime.

And here's hoping Nik is okay. That was the definition of predatory.

 

[Channelcat]

I liked most of our game last night. Certainly there are deficiencies in our bottom six compared to a top team like NJ.

 

[surixon]

To me, these complimentary pieces are what we should be after, rather than Boeser or Meier. They shouldn't be all that expensive; Svetchnikov was perfect for Dubois / Connor for example. We just need a couple of players who have decent hands and can grind a little and make a pass, and aren't just waiver-wire fodder.

Also think we need to at least have the option to push Lowry down. When your best bottom 6 player isn't quite good enough for 3rd line you have a problem.

That is where I'm at as well. Get Domi and another player.

 

[White Out 902]

Was wondering when youd show up with the annual trade helle campaign

Have I ever suggested trading Helley before? What Im suggesting now is to blow the team up root to stem, no exceptions.

 

[LowLefty]

I wonder if it can be a conditioning issue? I'd prefer that over him starting to check out.

I don't know what the issue is but it looks to me to be more related to frustration -
He's taking a few bad penalties - at the same time, he's getting mauled out there.
He draws a lot of attention - and his style of rolling over the opposition usually draws penalties.
But when it doesn't (like last night), he gets frustrated.

Regardless, he'll need to sort it out as we head toward playoffs - it's only going to get tighter out there.

 

[KingBogo]

I don't know what the issue is but it looks to me to be more related to frustration -
He's taking a few bad penalties - at the same time, he's getting mauled out there.
He draws a lot of attention - and his style of rolling over the opposition usually draws penalties.
But when it doesn't (like last night), he gets frustrated.

Regardless, he'll need to sort it out as we head toward playoffs - it's only going to get tighter out there.

If his game is dropping off this much out of frustration that is not a good sign. As you mentioned what he is having to deal with now is a fraction of what the playoffs will be like.

Have I ever suggested trading Helley before? What Im suggesting now is to blow the team up root to stem, no exceptions.

Why blow it up? In 5-7 years from now you will just want to blow up what ever was rebuilt.

 

[BigZ65]

To me, I did like Harkins during his short stint this year. AJF is whatever. I didn't mind Eyssimont.

At the end of the day though They're all playing one or two lines above their weight. Saku is 28, was out of the nhl for three full years prior to this. Idk how much "he's going to figure it out" left.

AJF's forecheck is pretty valuable and actually worth something on a line with a couple scorers. He also showed some ability to participate in plays with the puck both as a shooter and passer. He's one of the guys we have around who could actually fit as the third leg of the stool with a couple of sturdier scoring legs IMO...AJF-Dubois-Connor or AFJ-Schiefele-Perfetti could do some work.

 

[CorgisPer60]

 

[White Out 902]

Why blow it up? In 5-7 years from now you will just want to blow up what ever was rebuilt.

Why because this team is going no where fast.

In 7 years I'll start getting senile so your waste of time strawmen wont matter.

 

[LowLefty]

If his game is dropping off this much out of frustration that is not a good sign. As you mentioned what he is having to deal with now is a fraction of what the playoffs will be like.

I think it something they can address -
He might be trying to do too much on his own -
His style has always been to drive through the checking - maybe he needs to distribute a little more - he can open up a lot of space.
Or maybe he needs some help with the physical load.

I don't want to take away too much from last nights game - the experiment on the lines was a fail IMO.
PLD's line in particular, needs a winger that has enough skill to be part of the offense and play physical - maybe take some of the pressure off PLD.
He's one of the few on this team that plays a style that has a very physical component - shift after shift, game after game, that likely becomes a burden.

 

[White Out 902]

Just add on to that, you know you have the winning arguments when you have to resort to fighting somebody on something they aren't saying. Quality stuff from the usual zombies