Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Part 19

[Lafleurs Guy]

Tarasenko-KK-Anderson could be good!

Tarasenko... yeah, that'd be fun. Problem is he's all busted up. Don't know if he's worth the risk. 7.5 mil is a lot to pay for a guy who's mashed up.

 

[Hannibal]

Tarasenko... yeah, that'd be fun. Problem is he's all busted up. Don't know if he's worth the risk. 7.5 mil is a lot to pay for a guy who's mashed up.

I agree! We need to target somebody younger.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I agree! We need to target somebody younger.

Our biggest need is still on D.

I hope we don't overpay Danault. Love him but over 5 mil is crazy. If we give him that the cap is going to be a lot harder to manage for us.

 

[Laurentide]

The other Tkachuk in Calgary is on the block.

 

[Hannibal]

Our biggest need is still on D.

I hope we don't overpay Danault. Love him but over 5 mil is crazy. If we give him that the cap is going to be a lot harder to manage for us.

Without Drouin and/or Tatar, our biggest need is offence, in my book. Byron + Lehkonen in a top 9 is a non-sense going into a new season.

I’m confident that we’re gonna re-sign Danault between 4 and 5 per year.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Without Drouin and/or Tatar, our biggest need is offence, in my book. Byron + Lehkonen in a top 9 is a non-sense going into a new season.

I’m confident that we’re gonna re-sign Danault between 4 and 5 per year.

An offensive defenseman would do a lot for us and the forwards. Quite frankly we've needed that forever. It's at the top of the list. We've at least got TT up front on the left.

 

[goforit]

Our biggest need is still on D.

I hope we don't overpay Danault. Love him but over 5 mil is crazy. If we give him that the cap is going to be a lot harder to manage for us.

As essential as he's been defensively, particularly in the playoff. I can't see him asking what Pageau has gotten. His offensive production has been very disapointing over the year and it's not about badluck. He simply hasn't created a lot of offensive oppprtunities. So, I agree, as much as the Habs need to retain him, I hope it's nothing over 4.5M$ AAV.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

As essential as he's been defensively, particularly in the playoff. I can't see him asking what Pageau has gotten. His offensive production has been very disapointing over the year and it's not about badluck. He simply hasn't created a lot of offensive oppprtunities. So, I agree, as much as the Habs need to retain him, I hope it's nothing over 4.5M$ AAV.

4.5 mil is very expensive for a guy that can't be counted on for any offense. But defensively has has been great. It's the absolute most I would pay and even then, I'd feel bad about myself for it.

Agree with Hannibal that we need a good LW. But LD has to be at the top of our list. Going to be interesting to see how we handle the cap.

 

[MSLs absurd thighs]

4.5 mil is very expensive for a guy that can't be counted on for any offense. But defensively has has been great. It's the absolute most I would pay and even then, I'd feel bad about myself for it.

Agree with Hannibal that we need a good LW. But LD has to be at the top of our list. Going to be interesting to see how we handle the cap.

If we're going the LD route, I would pay a pretty good amount to get our hands on Alec Martinez. Really impressed by him throughout the Vegas series. I think his mobility, his puck handling abilities and his all-around game would fit our needs like a glove.

 

[aresknights]

Not much KK talk on this last page lol.

 

[goforit]

4.5 mil is very expensive for a guy that can't be counted on for any offense. But defensively has has been great. It's the absolute most I would pay and even then, I'd feel bad about myself for it.

Agree with Hannibal that we need a good LW. But LD has to be at the top of our list. Going to be interesting to see how we handle the cap.

I agree that it would hurt to pay him as much as 4.5M$ but we can't afford to lose him. Espacially considering KK's slow developement. Our 2 best centers would be Suzuki who is a very good #2 as of now and KK a #3 at best. With Danault, at least, you start the season with 3 middle6 centers (maybe a 1st with Suzuki).

The other option is MB find a top6 C on the market.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Bit of a shame Arvidsson just got traded as I think an Arvidsson - Kotkaniemi - Anderson line would have been really fun to watch. I would have gladly paid the same price the Kings paid.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Not much KK talk on this last page lol.

I guess it’s veering off a bit but it will be interesting to see who plays with him.

 

[TheBuriedHab]

He played great last night. He's at his best when he holds onto the puck that little extra.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I agree that it would hurt to pay him as much as 4.5M$ but we can't afford to lose him. Espacially considering KK's slow developement. Our 2 best centers would be Suzuki who is a very good #2 as of now and KK a #3 at best. With Danault, at least, you start the season with 3 middle6 centers (maybe a 1st with Suzuki).

The other option is MB find a top6 C on the market.

Agree that both KK and Suzuki need a strong 3rd liner.

But it doesn’t have to be Dannault. If he won’t be reasonable then, see ya. We can find a checking center elsewhere.

 

[azcanuck]

You can’t expect a young player to always elevate those around him unless they are somebody special. Not every player is going to be a McDavid, let alone a Suzuki. We have to accept that at this time, KK isn’t there yet so it’s absurd to expect him to elevate his line mates, I mean, we’re all watching the same games here.

Really, a lot of takes in this thread are plain stupid and written by people who probably never played a competitive sport in their life. KK isn’t a generational talent, nor is he an elite offensive force. Heck, he may never reach that level. However, we are stuck with him (unless they move him) so he and the org have to figure out how to best utilize him.

For these playoffs, that role looks to be the banging and wearing down opposition role. He’s not always consistent, but hopefully that comes with development and experience.

But sure, let’s have him elevate VETERAN players because that’s how you develop. I’ll keep this in mind once minor hockey starts up again and I build my lines and tell my new 13 year olds to elevate the tenured 15 year olds.

It's nice your coaching kids. I coached my son all through his minor hockey, I played junior hockey and I was a scout for a junior team.

I agree with your assessment of KK but as we move on to year 4 the player that plays the center position is pivotal to making his wingers better.
Someone posted earlier this year all the wingers KK has had. They've been some of the better players on the team.
I expect KK to continue to get better, he's looking better as the playoffs go along.
But at some point we have to stop blaming everyone else for his failures. (coach's management teamates)

 

[goforit]

It's nice your coaching kids. I coached my son all through his minor hockey, I played junior hockey and I was a scout for a junior team.

I agree with your assessment of KK but as we move on to year 4 the player that plays the center position is pivotal to making his wingers better.
Someone posted earlier this year all the wingers KK has had. They've been some of the better players on the team.
I expect KK to continue to get better, he's looking better as the playoffs go along.
But at some point we have to stop blaming everyone else for his failures. (coach's management teamates)

I totally agree. KK now has 199 games under the belt, is playing his regular turn every night, has been on the PP for the majority of those games and have played many good wingers. At some point he will have to show more than 3rd line C capability to earn more than that. He's still young but I'm really starting to question his hockey IQ. He's been chosing the wrong options more often than not since the first half of his rookie season and I find it worrisome.

 

[sandviper]

It's nice your coaching kids. I coached my son all through his minor hockey, I played junior hockey and I was a scout for a junior team.

I agree with your assessment of KK but as we move on to year 4 the player that plays the center position is pivotal to making his wingers better.
Someone posted earlier this year all the wingers KK has had. They've been some of the better players on the team.
I expect KK to continue to get better, he's looking better as the playoffs go along.
But at some point we have to stop blaming everyone else for his failures. (coach's management teamates)

This is surprising to hear. Given you’ve coached then, you should know you can’t expect a junior player to elevate seniors. Assuming you’ve coached mixed age ve no doubt had to place stronger and likely older wingers with younger centers? As you, I’ve played minor hockey as well. I don’t know if you’ve played forward, I have, and I’ve had to help mentor younger centers myself, some of which were much better than me. As a person who has played the game, you should be defending KK even more as you’ve gone through the pains he has. I have as a player, and as a coach, I’ve seen it.

To be fair, I wasn’t some elite superstar.

Fact is, he has improved. People keep looking at stats, which sure, it’s a results driven profession, but he’s improved in other areas; more assertive physically, possession game has improved, face offs got better and he’s shown he’s better in the playoffs thus far than the regular season. People joke about falling all the time, but even that has improved.

It seems his loudest critics are pining for some 0.7+ PPG player and this may not be who he is. Sure, he’s heading into his 4th season, but the NHL isn’t a development league.

Just saying, it’s not like we’re asking KK to elevate Belzile and Dauphin here and I’m sure if he got paired with them, he’d make them better players. Even as a third year player, it’s obvious he still needs sheltering. He was always a project, and end of the day, if that’s not what the team wants or needed, well, they drafted him.

Ultimately, I don’t really disagree with some of your arguments but given your junior experience from different view points, your delivery is quite surprising for a player so young, 3-4 years experience or not. I got no problem being critical on older players, but he’s not even old enough to drink in the US.

 

[aresknights]

I guess it’s veering off a bit but it will be interesting to see who plays with him.

For sure. I think the ideal fit will take a couple years until he he fully grows into his frame and finds his man strength and the Habs know exactly what they have in him. Probly going to take some experimenting and it'll depend on role he is ask to fill.

Just me, but I can see him going in a couple different directions n not sure what it'll be. His play will determine that. He has so many unrefined tools in the box. Which is great, but which ones will become dominant....I dunno

 

[sandviper]

For sure. I think the ideal fit will take a couple years until he he fully grows into his frame and finds his man strength and the Habs know exactly what they have in him. Probly going to take some experimenting and it'll depend on role he is ask to fill.

Just me, but I can see him going in a couple different directions n not sure what it'll be. His play will determine that. He has so many unrefined tools in the box. Which is great, but which ones will become dominant....I dunno

Actually, how it looks now anyways, his current role looks well suited for him. As he matures physically and mentally, if he can impose himself like Armia, except with more offensive consistency and maybe an edge to his game, that would be great.

 

[aresknights]

Actually, how it looks now anyways, his current role looks well suited for him. As he matures physically and mentally, if he can impose himself like Armia, except with more offensive consistency and maybe an edge to his game, that would be great.

I'd love more edge n more O n more everything lol.
I just responded about ideal Ws for him
Will he eventually be asked to play as a scoring line...
A 2 way reliable mid point guy that can play against top 2 Ls for opponents?
Will he n limemates be asked to play the energy, crash, bang be hard to play against line?

I think he has a versatility that is great but which trait do you think will stand out most in 2/3 yrs?
Heavy game along the boards n puck possession?
Scorer, heavy accurate shot or greasy goal guy as he has done or both?
Set up guy?
Defensive specialist with great FOs?

I think he ends up a mutt, Jack of all trades myself. Which isn't a knock at all. But his Ws will dictate what is expected of him and they will be choose by staff. By that I mean how they wanna use him. His potential is a few different roles because of what he can potentially do well.

 

[Tyson]

KK has been one of the forwards who has stood out in good way. He elevates his game in the playoffs. Still only 20.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

I’ve found him mostly disappointing this run tbh I was hoping for more. Still have hopes for the kid, but it’s going to take a bit to get there.

 

[HuGo Burner Acc]

4.5 mil is very expensive for a guy that can't be counted on for any offense. But defensively has has been great. It's the absolute most I would pay and even then, I'd feel bad about myself for it.

Agree with Hannibal that we need a good LW. But LD has to be at the top of our list. Going to be interesting to see how we handle the cap.

Yeah I think KK, Zuks, and Caufield are great building blocks but need another core piece around them at LW. I'd rather the Habs commit to Persuing a LW above all else. The reason being Habs have Chiarot, Edmundson, Romanov, and in the system, Guhle, Harris, Struble, etc. Point is lots of depth. Also the depth and pipeline of LW is so bad that Habs are putting RW on the left and multiple fringe third liners in the top 9. Short term LD would be nice but medium to long term a youngish RD is much more necessary with Weber getting older, Petry only having a few years left and nothing in the pipeline besides norlinder who prefers to play on his offside

 

[azcanuck]

This is surprising to hear. Given you’ve coached then, you should know you can’t expect a junior player to elevate seniors. Assuming you’ve coached mixed age ve no doubt had to place stronger and likely older wingers with younger centers? As you, I’ve played minor hockey as well. I don’t know if you’ve played forward, I have, and I’ve had to help mentor younger centers myself, some of which were much better than me. As a person who has played the game, you should be defending KK even more as you’ve gone through the pains he has. I have as a player, and as a coach, I’ve seen it.

To be fair, I wasn’t some elite superstar.

Fact is, he has improved. People keep looking at stats, which sure, it’s a results driven profession, but he’s improved in other areas; more assertive physically, possession game has improved, face offs got better and he’s shown he’s better in the playoffs thus far than the regular season. People joke about falling all the time, but even that has improved.

It seems his loudest critics are pining for some 0.7+ PPG player and this may not be who he is. Sure, he’s heading into his 4th season, but the NHL isn’t a development league.

Just saying, it’s not like we’re asking KK to elevate Belzile and Dauphin here and I’m sure if he got paired with them, he’d make them better players. Even as a third year player, it’s obvious he still needs sheltering. He was always a project, and end of the day, if that’s not what the team wants or needed, well, they drafted him.

Ultimately, I don’t really disagree with some of your arguments but given your junior experience from different view points, your delivery is quite surprising for a player so young, 3-4 years experience or not. I got no problem being critical on older players, but he’s not even old enough to drink in the US.

I'm a Finnish Canadian. My parents are both from Finland. We dont believe in fluffing things up. We are direct and dont believe in excuses.

Is it fair to be harsh with the analysis of KK? Perhaps not , but most of it's to counter all the fluff about him. How fantastic he is when most of the time he's not producing and he's just slipping and sliding out there.
He's 18 they yell!!
He's 19 they yell!
He's 20 they yell!!
Gets a little redundant.
Now what do I think the end product will be? I've stated it many times on here. When he gains strength it will buy him more time and space. And that's everything in the NHL. His skating will never be great, but the strength is the key. Because I do think he has a very good hockey brain. Next couple of years will be key.