Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Part 19

[Zorba]

4M/6 years... Nothing to lose. He's already an adequate #3C.

He will be lucky to get 2x2. In what word is he worth 24 million

 

[montreal]

I'm guessing you misunderstood,hey we all make mistakes. It was from April to October not 10 weak's.
Oh,no offense,can you get offended by anonymous internet discussions?

that makes more sense, I just saw the one summer part. Still I think it's a lot to expect KK to put on 10-15 lbs in 7 or so weeks. Maybe he can, I'm not even sure he should, as I'd rather see him work on the lower body strength in a major way, work on his skating and his shot. Not sure there's enough time to do a lot of improvement in all 3 areas though.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

He will be lucky to get 2x2. In what word is he worth 24 million

In the world of C Ronaldo who see him like the second coming of S. Crosby, lol.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

that makes more sense, I just saw the one summer part. Still I think it's a lot to expect KK to put on 10-15 lbs in 7 or so weeks. Maybe he can, I'm not even sure he should, as I'd rather see him work on the lower body strength in a major way, work on his skating and his shot. Not sure there's enough time to do a lot of improvement in all 3 areas though.

Increase his weight and hoping this will improve his overall play.
It's not as easy as in Count Customs when they put a new engine in a car.
We talk about an human body. How about his balance, his speed, his endurance and every aspects of his game?

But I agree with your doubt when you write "Not sure there's enough time to do a lot of improvement in all 3 areas though". I like when someone doubt about something, it makes him look more intelligent in my eyes.

 

[Dondini]

Gaining weight fast is almost never a good idea for athletes. He just needs to do a lot of lower lifting and plyometrics and hill sprints. He needs better acceleration.

it’s a short off season so we can’t expect to much from him. Production wise next year I hope he can hit 15 goals 35-40 points. I like his two way play and his physicality. He can make some good hits. This is a player that can really become a good two way center. We must not worry to much about his production. Especially this season with the short off season. I really think KK is going to come into his own around 23-24 years old.

 

[Habby4Life]

He will be lucky to get 2x2. In what word is he worth 24 million

None, the guy is nothing special. One more lacklustre year and it’s time to call him a bust.

 

[montreal]

Increase his weight and hoping this will improve his overall play.
It's not as aesy as in Count Customs when they put a new engine in a car.
We talk about an human body. How about his balance, his speed, his endurance and every aspects of his game?

But I agree with your doubt when you write "Not sure there's enough time to do a lot of improvement in all 3 areas though". I like when someone doubt about something, it makes him look more intelligent in my eyes.

lower body strength would help improve his balance and possibly his speed though I'm not overly concerned with that. I want him to have a better skating technique, not leaning over his skates (I was a terrible skater when I played in the late '80's early '90's) so it's always tougher for me to get a great read on skating technique but I don't think KK has a good one.

In such short time I would rather see him work on the lower body strength mostly and then his skating, better imo to work really hard on one of the worst aspects (lower body strength) and improve that then trying to work on 7 different things at once.

For me, lower body strength is his biggest issue, followed by his skating and then learning to get his shot off quicker and make quicker decisions. But the last one I think that just has to come after the others when he's hopefully more confident in his abilities due to the improved strength, balance, skating that hopefully would come from working hard on his lower body to be more like his idol Armia and those tree trunks he calls legs.

 

[Montrealcowboys]

KK doesnt have elite talent bursting through the TV screen like a Caufield or a Suzuki. He is on his way to become a solid nhler with good size.

Im thinking Lars Eller , Travis Zajac , Adam Henrique style , maybe a Josh Bailey if everything turns for the best.

That is a sad statement "doesn't have elite talent" for the #3 overall draft pick. Their #3 pick from 2012 should be a bonafide star player (and he isn't) and now their 2018 #3 pick seems to be headed for bottom 6 lineman. That is unacceptable for a franchise.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

He will be lucky to get 2x2. In what word is he worth 24 million

For the moment you pay a bit for the potential but in 2-3 years, it will be a bargain.

 

[Captain97]

He will be lucky to get 2x2. In what word is he worth 24 million

The idea is long term he is at worst a 3-3.5 million dollar player once he's in his prime so he's gambling on him being better than that.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

No he's not. If you mean a defensive C, this is not the profile he was drafted for. He plays and he is supposely a #2 C. I don't see him as a shut down C, actually he is weak on his skates, he doesn't skate fast and he doesn't play more than 18 minutes a game.

No #3C plays 18 minutes/night, KK is good defensively and I have not doubt that even if he never reach his potential, he will be a good #3C. 4M for a #3C is the norm, but here we are gambling on the potential... It's not hard to understand.

To start with, it was a big mistake to bring him at the age of 18 yrs old. He should have been fully developped in Laval before coming here. With Danault out and no real replacement for his duty, now we are very weak at center and we have a problem now, even bigger problem back in the Atlantic division.

This has nothing to do with what I said.

 

[montreal]

That is a sad statement "doesn't have elite talent" for the #3 overall draft pick. Their #3 pick from 2012 should be a bonafide star player (and he isn't) and now their 2018 #3 pick seems to be headed for bottom 6 lineman. That is unacceptable for a franchise.

don't forget the #3 from 2013 either, since he has the skill to be such a good player but just never could produce more then a 50ish pt player. KK though if he can learn to get his shot off quicker and instead of trying to fire the hardest shot, instead just get it off quicker then he's going to score some goals for sure. I don't know if he can ever hit 30+ but the shot has a chance to be something special but needs a good bit of work. I like his passing game but he needs to show it more, maybe he overthinks things.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

In the world of C Ronaldo who see him like the second coming of S. Crosby, lol.

What are you talking about ? GMs are always gambling on the potential of their players... If you can't understand basic management things, I can't help you.

 

[Garbageyuk]

lol there's tons of room between what you're saying he'll be and a #1C. A pretty sizeable spectrum. You sure as hell don't need to be 'elite' in one area to produce more than Danault. Come on.

You're judging a kid who just isn't there yet. You look at most kids his age who haven't physically matured and yeah most of their attributes look pretty middling. Pacioretty at the same age had nothing but speed. Shown far less than KK did. Same trajectory. A really promising rookie year (not as good as KK's and Max was older) then seemingly regressed in his next season in a half to the point where people thought he was going to be a 3rd liner. NO ONE and I mean no one thought he'd be one of the better goal scorer's of his time.

Pacioretty was drafted for his size, speed, and shot. Yeah I think quite a few people thought he could become a good goal-scorer. Patch had two tools that you could bank on for him becoming an offensive threat in the NHL; his shot and his speed.

The problem with KK is that he doesn't have those stand out attributes, and his deficiencies aren't really things that improve much with gaining strength, aside from the defensive game. His shot, speed, skating, hockey sense, passing are all below average. I'll ask again: what area of his game looks like it could become elite to you? Because I'm not seeing anything, aside from what I mentioned before. Like I said, he could get really strong, work hard on his faceoffs and defensive game and become a physical beast who wins board battles and crashes the net and mucks it up in the dirty areas. To me, a player like that would still be fantastic, and the best part is, that's all we would need from him because of the emergence of Suzuki.

It seems to me you are hung up on his draft position, and the dream of him spontaneously developing into that mythical unicorn 1C. He just doesn't have the tools for that. He's a poor skater, he has a weak to average shot, his passing is poor, and he looks like he has a limited hockey IQ, tbh, average at best. These aren't generally things that improve much with gaining strength.

Lastly, comparing him to Pacioretty is disengenuous. He doesn't have the tools Patch did, and even if he did, he's supposed to be a center; that kind of game would still be unacceptable for a top-6 C.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

No #3C plays 18 minutes/night, KK is good defensively and I have not doubt that even if he never reach his potential, he will be a good #3C. 4M for a #3C is the norm, but here we are gambling on the potential... It's not hard to understand.



This has nothing to do with what I said.

Too much contradiction in your response. You write no doubt about his potential and you write about we are gambling on the potential. Sorry but it's hard to understand, lol.

Second quote : Now being good defensivly, being a #3 C (then who is #2 C?) and Danault have nothing to do with what you said means Danault wasn't the defensive C with the team? Did he or not took defensive duty vs Matthews and Connor? So now I guess it will be KK duty if he is our #3 C? Or it will be Evans or Perrault? Or Poehling? Or Paquette?

Does anyone (and including Ducharme) knows who will shut down the best C of the other teams?
Now you seem to say it's gonna be KK because "KK is good defensively" to quote you.

But this thread is full of comments like "KK have to built more muscles in the lower body and improve", etc.

And you say it's not hard to understand.
Sorry but too confusing for mehh. I need another coffee, lol.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

What are you talking about ? GMs are always gambling on the potential of their players... If you can't understand basic management things, I can't help you.

Just teasing ya, I wrote lol at the end.

 

[Garbageyuk]

that makes more sense, I just saw the one summer part. Still I think it's a lot to expect KK to put on 10-15 lbs in 7 or so weeks. Maybe he can, I'm not even sure he should, as I'd rather see him work on the lower body strength in a major way, work on his skating and his shot. Not sure there's enough time to do a lot of improvement in all 3 areas though.

There are ways that can be done. He'd need some "help" though.

 

[Fixxer]

I have 2 concerns with KK. My first one, his inconsistency. He's a young player who was rushed, IMO, but he might "recover".

My biggest concern is that I wonder more and more if he is going to be a Center mid or long term. The more I see his struggles and his playing style, the more I see him as a winger. I hope I'm wrong. Maybe he figures it out in the next season or so .. ?

I like the kid, but it's very difficult to count on him to be a 2nd line Center! Maybe a 3rd center, as Jake Evans seems ahead of him on many aspects, but Evans in the top 6, not the ideal situation. We'll see what the roster is for training camp and on opening night. He's still young but the clock is ticking...

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Pacioretty was drafted for his size, speed, and shot. Yeah I think quite a few people thought he could become a good goal-scorer. Patch had two tools that you could bank on for him becoming an offensive threat in the NHL; his shot and his speed.

The problem with KK is that he doesn't have those stand out attributes, and his deficiencies aren't really things that improve much with gaining strength, aside from the defensive game. His shot, speed, skating, hockey sense, passing are all below average. I'll ask again: what area of his game looks like it could become elite to you? Because I'm not seeing anything, aside from what I mentioned before. Like I said, he could get really strong, work hard on his faceoffs and defensive game and become a physical beast who wins board battles and crashes the net and mucks it up in the dirty areas. To me, a player like that would still be fantastic, and the best part is, that's all we would need from him because of the emergence of Suzuki.

It seems to me you are hung up on his draft position, and the dream of him spontaneously developing into that mythical unicorn 1C. He just doesn't have the tools for that. He's a poor skater, he has a weak to average shot, his passing is poor, and he looks like he has a limited hockey IQ, tbh, average at best. These aren't generally things that improve much with gaining strength.

Lastly, comparing him to Pacioretty is disengenuous. He doesn't have the tools Patch did, and even if he did, he's supposed to be a center; that kind of game would still be unacceptable for a top-6 C.

lol you're not even reading my posts. Where in this exchange did I say he can be a #1C? The thing is I don't know where he can end up. You're talking high end #3C or very low end #2C if EVERYTHING goes right.

You're assessment of him is way off. He has a very heavy shot but he needs to get it off quicker. Saying it's average to weak is mind-boggling. His passing is hardly poor. It hasn't been consistently great but he's shown plenty of flashes it being very good.

Does he have any one thing that is 'elite'? Not too sure. But again to have better offensive production than Danault which is the MAIN POINT we are arguing, you sure as hell don't need anything to be truly elite. What the hell does Danault have offensively that is anywhere near elite? If you can't see that KK is far more skilled than Danault ever was or is then there's no point in having this discussion.

The comparison is hardly disingenuous. All Patches had on KK at the same age is speed. Pacioretty was seen as primarily a playmaking winger who could score 20-25. Him being a 35+ guy perenially was NOT expected at all.

At the same age KK has shown FAR more than Patches did. People don't remember the beginning of that third season where Patches was getting a ton of breakaways but had ZERO finish and kept falling down.

I'm thinking a solid #2C but I do think there's room for more and there's also still a chance he can be worse than that. He's a hard one to project at this point. I get it but anyone thinking he has never had any top 6 potential is really silly.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

I have 2 concerns with KK. My first one, his inconsistency. He's a young player who was rushed, IMO, but he might "recover".

My biggest concern is that I wonder more and more if he is going to be a Center mid or long term. The more I see his struggles and his playing style, the more I see him as a winger. I hope I'm wrong. Maybe he figures it out in the next season or so .. ?

I like the kid, but it's very difficult to count on him to be a 2nd line Center! Maybe a 3rd center, as Jake Evans seems ahead of him on many aspects, but Evans in the top 6, not the ideal situation. We'll see what the roster is for training camp and on opening night. He's still young but the clock is ticking...

Loot at every team and after tell me if Evans is better than their #2 center. Do you really think Evans is a good #2 center around the league or you're an enthousiast Habs fan?
I like the part when you mention it's not the ideal situation.
Being that said, now Evans is ahead of Kotkaniemi? This is confusing and needs to be debated. And do you think Evans have serious head concussion history that might limit his ice time?

 

[Le Tricolore]

Nearly at 1000, so continue here: Player Discussion - Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Part 20 - Second line centre edition?