Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Part 12

[NineteenSixtyFive]

The Claude excuse is dead now at least. Let’s hope KK anon were right in their conspiracies.

Actually I expect they will get much more mileage out of the Claude excuse should KK not show improvement. I can see it 3 years from now as a matter of fact should he become Galchenyuk 2.0.

 

[Wats]

If he doesn't, then there is a serious concern.

Pretty much, I feel like at some point it's not the coaches fault. This isn't like Therrien IMO. Julien gave him PP time while producing less and dick him around to W/C constantly.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

If he doesn't, then there is a serious concern.

If we are going to continue playing him 5 mins a night then we should trade him for an established player. We already f***ed up with Chuck, I don't want to see a repeat. Shit or get off the pot. Playing him the way we are is mindblowingly stupid right now.

 

[Mrb1p]

If I had to guess, it was probably because he was horrible last night. Just like how Julien didn't play Danault in OT that one time because Danault was also horrible that game.

Youre not wrong, he was very average last game, and its fine for him to skip a shift when he's playing bad.

The opposite was never true though. He never got more ice when he was hot, and the opposite isn't true for Danault, he never gets less ice when he's bad. Thats part of the problem.

Play good, sit, play bad sit.

Meanwhile Danault is play bad, play, play bad play even more.

 

[The Great Weal]

If we are going to continue playing him 5 mins a night then we should trade him for an established player. We already f***ed up with Chuck, I don't want to see a repeat. Shit or get off the pot. Playing him the way we are is mindblowingly stupid right now.

He's not playing 5 minutes a night, played with players who were white hot, and has playing with the most productive player last year. The excuses need to f***ing stop. People here are acting like he would be PPG if he had 2 more shifts a game.

Galchenyuk was a very good top 6 forward with us, KK is not that yet(if ever) and his career died after leaving the Habs. Galchenyuk himself f***ed up. Playing him the way we are worked wonderfully for KK in the playoffs, what's changed since then?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

He's not playing 5 minutes a night, played with players who were white hot, and has playing with the most productive player last year. The excuses need to f***ing stop. People here are acting like he would be PPG if he had 2 more shifts a game.

Galchenyuk was a very good top 6 forward with us, KK is not that yet(if ever) and his career died after leaving the Habs. Galchenyuk himself f***ed up. Playing him the way we are worked wonderfully for KK in the playoffs, what's changed since then?

Whatever man. You were wrong then. You're wrong now. We've been stupid in how we develop these guys.

Once again, if we are going to "develop" him this way, then we should trade him now while he has value. Other teams will take him off our hands just as they would've with Chuck.

 

[The Great Weal]

Youre not wrong, he was very average last game, and its fine for him to skip a shift when he's playing bad.

The opposite was never true though. He never got more ice when he was hot, and the opposite isn't true for Danault, he never gets less ice when he's bad. Thats part of the problem.

Play good, sit, play bad sit.

Meanwhile Danault is play bad, play, play bad play even more.

You are way too emotionally invested in KK. He wasn't average, he was flat out horrible. Danault was good last night and despite what many here are saying, he's looked a lot better lately(still not good enough). He also didn't play any OT time when he was horrible like KK was last night.

 

[The Great Weal]

Whatever man. You were wrong then. You're wrong now. We've been stupid in how we develop these guys.

Once again, if we are going to "develop" him this way, then we should trade him now while he has value. Other teams will take him off our hands just as they would've with Chuck.

Lol I was wrong then? If anything, I was right and you were wrong because Galchenyuk is getting worse and worse and it has nothing to do with the Habs. You are denying the fact that he was a very good top 6 forward with us and shit to bed for all the other million teams he's played for.

We've been even stupider with how we draft these guys, you just refuse to hold the player accountable for anything. Ya and it's worked out so great for those other teams taking Galchenyuk the superstar, he's only been dumped 50 times.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

You are way too emotionally invested in KK.

Right. Everyone is too emotionally invested except you.

 

[The Great Weal]

Right. Everyone is too emotionally invested except you.

You are right, maybe I should blame everything on the coach and treat the player like a hall of famer when he isn't even a top 6 forward. I mean you are the leading cheerleader for the Galchenyuk is a superstar team. I guess you can't admit you were as wrong as one can be on that one lol.

 

[Mrb1p]

You are way too emotionally invested in KK. He wasn't average, he was flat out horrible. Danault was good last night and despite what many here are saying, he's looked a lot better lately(still not good enough). He also didn't play any OT time when he was horrible like KK was last night.

Eh... I mean you are really invested in making KK (And Lekhonen before, and Mete, and Tatar.) bad, so maybe the truth lies in the middle. He wasn't good yesterday, but saying he was bad is a stretch, he just did nothing to impact the play at either end, but I know you want to blame the Kulak goal and the penalty, so be it, I don't really care.

It still doesn't address the fact that he was the best player for the Habs the last two games (Before this one) and he didn't get a second of time more.

 

[The Great Weal]

Eh... I mean you are really invested in making KK (And Lekhonen before, and Mete, and Tatar.) bad, so maybe the truth lies in the middle. He wasn't good yesterday, but saying he was bad is a stretch, he just did nothing to impact the play at either end, but I know you want to blame the Kulak goal and the penalty, so be it, I don't really care.

It still doesn't address the fact that he was the best player for the Habs the last two games (Before this one) and he didn't get a second of time more.

Dude, he was brutal yesterday, full stop. Notice how I'm not saying anything bad about Lehkonen this year? It's because he's exactly where he needs to be. Mete just sucks, and the vast majority of people know this too. Tatar? He's just playing stupid right now, don't see how I'm invested in him. Kulak is a moron and is the main guy to blame, but KK was coasting and it was unacceptable. Took a stupid penalty, and got lucky he didn't get called for another stupid penalty. He didn't make proper passes, he took years to get shots off and never got it through as shown by his 1 shot in 3 games.

 

[Mrb1p]

Dude, he was brutal yesterday, full stop. Notice how I'm not saying anything bad about Lehkonen this year? It's because he's exactly where he needs to be. Mete just sucks, and the vast majority of people know this too. Tatar? He's just playing stupid right now, don't see how I'm invested in him. Kulak is a moron and is the main guy to blame, but KK was coasting and it was unacceptable. Took a stupid penalty, and got lucky he didn't get called for another stupid penalty. He didn't make proper passes, he took years to get shots off and never got it through as shown by his 1 shot in 3 games.

Yeah, I got the part where you weren't objectively looking at players play, I said I did not care.

 

[gillyguzzler]

No, Clod just took the legs out from under him when his line was ballin' at the start of the season so Black Hole Danault could have "better wingers"...

Let's stop with the KK doesn't play with good wingers excuse because they all play with Danault.

Danault with Gally and Tatar - "NOT FAIR", Danault shouldn't be playing with the best wingers.

But KK has played with a combination of Tatar, Armia, Toffoli and Perry this year. If he's not producing, it might be a lot of reasons, but not necessarily the lack of quality wingers this year.
Plus, this excuse has been written here about 1000 times... the point has been made.

 

[gillyguzzler]

Dude, he was brutal yesterday, full stop. Notice how I'm not saying anything bad about Lehkonen this year? It's because he's exactly where he needs to be. Mete just sucks, and the vast majority of people know this too. Tatar? He's just playing stupid right now, don't see how I'm invested in him. Kulak is a moron and is the main guy to blame, but KK was coasting and it was unacceptable. Took a stupid penalty, and got lucky he didn't get called for another stupid penalty. He didn't make proper passes, he took years to get shots off and never got it through as shown by his 1 shot in 3 games.

It's too bad as well. Really thought he'd break out after scoring on the weekend but, like most of the team, he wasn't very good at all against Ottawa. Everyone, and obviously the coaching staff, wishes he'd take the next step and it would certainly be tremendous that he starts playing like a 2C or even a 1C. He's 20 though... not ready yet it seems but hopefully soon.

 

[JohnLennon]

Chill out dudes, Kotkaniemi is 20 years old. Some of the biggest stars in the league hadn't even made the NHL by 20. He looks like a legit NHL player and has struggled with consistency, but what I really like is that when he's "on" he truly creates chances out of nothing. He's fantastic on the forecheck and might have the most sneaky, active stick on the forecheck I've seen on the Habs (similar to Datsyuk in that way, actually). He's a great playmaker but needs to learn to shoot more, as his shot is elite. I mean it when I say elite. He's got tons of tools but again remember, he's 20 and these consistency issues will happen. In fact it's happening to Suzuki as well.

I still see 1C upside to this kid and I'm eager to see how he plays for the rest of the season.

 

[Miller Time]

Chill out dudes, Kotkaniemi is 20 years old. Some of the biggest stars in the league hadn't even made the NHL by 20. He looks like a legit NHL player and has struggled with consistency, but what I really like is that when he's "on" he truly creates chances out of nothing. He's fantastic on the forecheck and might have the most sneaky, active stick on the forecheck I've seen on the Habs (similar to Datsyuk in that way, actually). He's a great playmaker but needs to learn to shoot more, as his shot is elite. I mean it when I say elite. He's got tons of tools but again remember, he's 20 and these consistency issues will happen. In fact it's happening to Suzuki as well.

I still see 1C upside to this kid and I'm eager to see how he plays for the rest of the season.

preach... though be prepared for it to fall on deaf ears lol.

Was just looking at JT Miller's career (he's an interesting potential target for us, imo, would be a great LW add to replace Tatar, and Nucks need the kind of young d prospects we have in spades)...

The guy, drafted 15th overall, needed 9 full seasons post-draft to hit his offensive stride, getting to that ppg level while playing 18-20min/night.

JKO has better pedigree and early career success than he has... and I'd argue, a considerably higher ceiling (and interestingly, Miller has a lot of potential similarities to our U.S born recent late first rounder... will we have the patience for Poehling if he too needs 7-8-9 yrs to hit the high-end of his potential???)

It's mind boggling that so many posters here simply don't understand player progression.. it's symptomatic of the "i want it now" culture consuming every aspect of society these days i suppose.

 

[Mike Towers]

KK needs to play with better players and get way more ice time...period horrible coaching by dinosaur Julien.

 

[lamp9post]

Chill out dudes, Kotkaniemi is 20 years old. Some of the biggest stars in the league hadn't even made the NHL by 20. He looks like a legit NHL player and has struggled with consistency, but what I really like is that when he's "on" he truly creates chances out of nothing. He's fantastic on the forecheck and might have the most sneaky, active stick on the forecheck I've seen on the Habs (similar to Datsyuk in that way, actually). He's a great playmaker but needs to learn to shoot more, as his shot is elite. I mean it when I say elite. He's got tons of tools but again remember, he's 20 and these consistency issues will happen. In fact it's happening to Suzuki as well.

I still see 1C upside to this kid and I'm eager to see how he plays for the rest of the season.

Agreed. He's producing a shade under 0.5 ppg...As a 20 year old 3rd line C, I'm not sure how much more we can realistically expect from him.

It's not for a lack of icetime that he hasn't turned into Barkov already. He has some things to work on and from what I can tell, he's getting the minutes to work on them. His icetime has been consistent and I don't see anything from him (i.e. facial expressions, body language) that would suggest he's suffering from a lack of confidence. The best course of action with him IMO is to stay the course and re-evaluate after the season.

 

[JohnLennon]

preach... though be prepared for it to fall on deaf ears lol.

Was just looking at JT Miller's career (he's an interesting potential target for us, imo, would be a great LW add to replace Tatar, and Nucks need the kind of young d prospects we have in spades)...

The guy, drafted 15th overall, needed 9 full seasons post-draft to hit his offensive stride, getting to that ppg level while playing 18-20min/night.

JKO has better pedigree and early career success than he has... and I'd argue, a considerably higher ceiling (and interestingly, Miller has a lot of potential similarities to our U.S born recent late first rounder... will we have the patience for Poehling if he too needs 7-8-9 yrs to hit the high-end of his potential???)

It's mind boggling that so many posters here simply don't understand player progression.. it's symptomatic of the "i want it now" culture consuming every aspect of society these days i suppose.

100% agreed. JT Miller is a perfect example of the massive variance in pace that development can really be between player to player. It's truly a personal thing and guys like KK and Poehling have huge upside but we need to be patient for both (specifically Poehling).

 

[cphabs]

Youre not wrong, he was very average last game, and its fine for him to skip a shift when he's playing bad.

The opposite was never true though. He never got more ice when he was hot, and the opposite isn't true for Danault, he never gets less ice when he's bad. Thats part of the problem.

Play good, sit, play bad sit.

Meanwhile Danault is play bad, play, play bad play even more.

This is what destroys a team or locker room. It’s been going on for a while...

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Youre not wrong, he was very average last game, and its fine for him to skip a shift when he's playing bad.

The opposite was never true though. He never got more ice when he was hot, and the opposite isn't true for Danault, he never gets less ice when he's bad. Thats part of the problem.

Play good, sit, play bad sit.

Meanwhile Danault is play bad, play, play bad play even more.

And this is the kind of crap we've seen here for years. Then we wonder why we can't produce star players.

Maybe KK will be a bust. I don't know. What I do know though is that we have to give him the chance to prove that he's not. If you just limit his minutes like this then you might as well just have him in the AHL where he'll learn to dominate and get the right icetime.

You don't get to mismanage players like this and then blame scouting for it. If you're mismanaging players then you deserve the blame.

As for Julien, I'd have been far more forgiving of him if he weren't so brutal with this player. He was able to open up for Suzuki, I don't get why he couldn't do the same here... Just stupid.

 

[tazsub3]

He's not playing 5 minutes a night, played with players who were white hot, and has playing with the most productive player last year. The excuses need to f***ing stop. People here are acting like he would be PPG if he had 2 more shifts a game.

Galchenyuk was a very good top 6 forward with us, KK is not that yet(if ever) and his career died after leaving the Habs. Galchenyuk himself f***ed up. Playing him the way we are worked wonderfully for KK in the playoffs, what's changed since then?

KK had the best line early in the year and he gets punished to get danault started. problem starts there

 

[tazsub3]

This is what destroys a team or locker room. It’s been going on for a while...

And it has, this is why the team quit on him

 

[cphabs]

And it has, this is why the team quit on him

It appears to be so... Price better pick it the f*** up as well.