Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Part 12

[Rosso Scuderia]

I still don't see anything special in him. He looks all over the place. He's not strong on his skate. Not strong on the puck and takes too long to shoot. His shot might be decent/good but it's the timing of his shot that needs a lot of work.

Let's hope he doesn't end up like a Galchenyuk. Not comparing their style of play but their progression.

 

[Aces on the road]

Not sure about confidence but since KK got headshotted in Calgary he hasnt been the same.
We all know that Julien is a bad coach.
As for Armia he will be gone soon enough. 4 points in 1 game and then 1 point in 10 games. The typical Armia. Big body , can't hit , can't pass .

Had concussion in between

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Armia is not a playmaker lol. But he’s playing his role fine.

how about KK start hitting guys with passes? Isn’t he supposed to be the play driving centerman?

 

[Mikah]

I think we can stop pretending that it is too early to compared KK with Tkachuk because of their age.

Tkachuk is not only the best player of his (albeit weak) team, but he is also the whole package. He is making a big difference everytime he is on the ice, and this will be for years to come.

The jury is still out for KK, but even though he probably has not reached his full potential yet, I think it is time to admit he will never be at the same level as Tkachuk.

It was a mistake.

 

[Ozmodiar]

14 minutes / game, roughly.
Played with team’s top scorer most of the season.
Regular PP time.

Just go do it. Confidence isn’t served on a platter.

 

[montreal]

What would be an ideal weight for KK? He still looks like a twig out there and not very stable. I feel like he'd need to be more 'powerful' in order to play his game properly - to not stop when arriving at the blue line but go through the defense.

he certainly needs to improve his lower body strength, I'm real big on that and while he's improved as he's not on his ass that much compared 2 his first 2 seasons but it has to improve. But he's only 20, so i'm sure it will.

According to NHL.com and considering players who played 5+ games he's the 11st youngest player. 3 players younger than him (with less experience) have more points. I still don't see it in JK as a solid 1st line player. I think people overestimate his ceiling.

Not everyone sees him as a 1st liner, but look at last season, it looked like he was going to be worse then Galchenyuk, then after finally MB got his head of out his ass and sent KK to Laval, he comes back in the playoffs and was one of our best players. They took a raw kid with skating issues, then rushed him to the NHL. The very definition of how not to develop talent, he's a work in progress so it comes down to how much can he progress over the next 2-3-4 years or not.

 

[salbutera]

I agree. I like KK. Hell both my parents are from Finland and I cheer for my Finnish players.

But he just may not become the player we all wish he can be. I see a 2C max ceiling. Probably a 60 point solid center. Nothing wrong with that at all but kinda disappointing.

Why? I always expected a bigger bodied Plekanec...that's still top-20 NHL C

 

[Mrb1p]

Can a mod step in and stop these Hughes/Tkachuk comparisons ? Im not here to read about the second coming of Napoleon Bonaparte and Napoleon dynamite.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Keep telling yourself that

Keep telling myself what? I have no idea why you're acting like it's not obvious to everyone that rate stats can be misleading in a small sample. Do you think I believe he's a better scorer than Crosby or something? It doesn't matter anyway, because we're not talking about playing him ahead of Sidney Crosby, it's about playing him ahead of an ice cold Philip Danault.

He's produced well in 3rd line minutes, and in my opinion has the physical tools to play higher up the lineup so I would like to see him given that chance. That's it, and I think it's perfectly reasonable to keep telling myself that.

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

I think we can stop pretending that it is too early to compared KK with Tkachuk because of their age.

Tkachuk is not only the best player of his (albeit weak) team, but he is also the whole package. He is making a big difference everytime he is on the ice, and this will be for years to come.

The jury is still out for KK, but even though he probably has not reached his full potential yet, I think it is time to admit he will never be at the same level as Tkachuk.

It was a mistake.

I don't think anyone expected him to be better in their first 5 years, which is definitely something that has to be said for Tkachuk because its not like the years 18-23 are meaningless, but the Jury will be out on Kotkaniemi until he is 22-23 due to his label of "project", fair or not. We could be looking at a Landeskog/Couturier situation where the former was clearly better for the first 5 or so years and more recently it has been more of a wash.

Tkachuk is an absolute beast though and its undeniable he would make a big impact on our roster right now.

 

[TesseractPrice]

I mean he's still 6th on the team in P/60, he's producing. It would be nice if he was like Stützle but it's not the case

Where he needs to improve is the special teams, Ducharme and Burrows will have to work a lot with him but I believe it can and will be done

 

[azcanuck]

Why? I always expected a bigger bodied Plekanec...that's still top-20 NHL C

Maybe disapointing is the wrong word. I think expectations need to be tempered .

 

[ItzaGreat]

14 minutes / game, roughly.
Played with team’s top scorer most of the season.
Regular PP time.

Just go do it. Confidence isn’t served on a platter.

No you see... geniuses say that KK shouldn't even be in the NHL..that we rushed his development... But also that he should be given 18+ mins on a silver platter.

Is he a make a wish kid? Would explain his leg problems...

 

[lamp9post]

Armia is not a playmaker lol. But he’s playing his role fine.

how about KK start hitting guys with passes? Isn’t he supposed to be the play driving centerman?

Yes. Passes the puck into the other team's skates far too often. This is the one instance where I agree with Julien and his message to play a more stable game. If the pass isn't there, have a plan B. Cycle it back to the dman, dump it in and chase, try to get a shot and a whistle in the offensive zone for the next line. Do something that will allow you to challenge the defense and extend the play. Don't force a low % pass and turn over the puck so easily.

 

[LaP]

I don't think anyone expected him to be better in their first 5 years, which is definitely something that has to be said for Tkachuk because its not like the years 18-23 are meaningless, but the Jury will be out on Kotkaniemi until he is 22-23 due to his label of "project", fair or not. We could be looking at a Landeskog/Couturier situation where the former was clearly better for the first 5 or so years and more recently it has been more of a wash.

Tkachuk is an absolute beast though and its undeniable he would make a big impact on our roster right now.

Development curve like Couturier and Marchard is rare though. Going from 40 points to 80 points overnight in the middle of the 20ies is rare and uncommon. Expecting such a curve from a young player is unrealistic.

More often than not pro development happens gradually between the age of 20 and 23 over than span of 3 or 4 years. That's why personally i would like to see some form of progression from JK this season since he's now 20. If he can't break the 0.5 ppg barrier this season i would say things are not looking great (as a 3rd overall pick).

 

[Mrb1p]

Development curve like Couturier and Marchard is rare though. Going from 40 points to 80 points overnight in the middle of the 20ies is rare and uncommon. Expecting such a curve from a young player is unrealistic.

More often than not pro development happens gradually between the age of 20 and 23 over than span of 3 or 4 years. That's why personally i would like to see some form of progressive from JK this season since he's now 20. If he can't break the 0.5 ppg barrier this season i would say things are not looking good.

You have to look at what happened in those cases though.

Couturier was buried down in the line-up both at ES and on the PP. He was playing 14 minutes or less every season he produced at under a .5 ppg and he played on the second PP. Does that sound like somebody you know ? Fast forward fives years, two more minutes at ES and two more minutes on the PP and he's a PPG selke trophy center.

Ice-time, ice-time is the end and beginning of all production.

 

[Big Empty]

He's gonna take off with Fraude gone IMO

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Now is the kid's chance to show some grit and progress...let's hope Ducharme has faith in him...

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Apparently Claude smacked KK's legs with a giant mallet, "Misery" style.

Now that he's gone. That'll surely fix his leg problems.

No, Clod just took the legs out from under him when his line was ballin' at the start of the season so Black Hole Danault could have "better wingers"...

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

The Claude excuse is dead now at least. Let’s hope KK anon were right in their conspiracies.

 

[willzyix]

I'd be happy to see different KK usage, but I'm not sure I'd expect. The org isn't throwing in the towel on the season: they still want to win, and if Ducharme wants to keep this job he'll have to win too.

I don't expect all of sudden that Ducharme is going to put a priority on youth development. He might be better at it, but I'm not sure whether we should expect 16-18 min for KK and Danault buried on the third line.

I hope though, because I hate Danault.

 

[The Great Weal]

No idea why CJ did not play him in the OT. Was it a way to say, well it is your fault we lost last time ? If so, that is really one more silly decision from a coach not ready to take responsability for his lack of solutions

If I had to guess, it was probably because he was horrible last night. Just like how Julien didn't play Danault in OT that one time because Danault was also horrible that game.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Ice-time, ice-time is the end and beginning of all production.

Exactly, I really wish we'd stop talking about scoring in terms of the "40 point guy", "60 point guy" etc etc as if that's the open and shut max production a player is capable of when it's mostly about ice time/PP. It's the same thing with the Drouin stuff where "50 points" is supposed to speak for itself as respectable top 6 production when 50 points is actually a terrible raw total in context.

Yeah, if Ducharme puts Kotkaniemi in the top 6 with guys like Tatar/Toffoli/Anderson/Gallagher for the rest of the year (please keep Drouin the hell away from him) and he ends up with less than the 25-27 points which would be a pro-rated 40 in 82 it would be a disappointment. But if he keeps playing in a 3rd line/PP2 role I don't really know what else can be expected. He's currently on pace for a 36 over 82 pace, that's pretty much the best you can do with his current TOI/usage absent a completely lethal power play.

Just seems like a self defeating prophecy when 3rd line raw totals from a player on a 3rd line disqualifies a 20 year old with obvious physical tools this team hasn't had since half a season of Robert Lang from playing in the top 6.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Really hoping that this guy finally gets some ice and can show what he can do. Of all our players, I'd say he has the most to gain by this.

 

[The Great Weal]

Of all our players, I'd say he has the most to gain by this.

If he doesn't, then there is a serious concern.