Tribute Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Goodbye and Good Luck

[TopTenPlayz]

This guy is Timmins biggest cheerleader. All this graph shows is reminding us KK has played so many goddamn games already. And this is why some people are worried because after so many games played, we haven't seen anything that shows he will become a dominant center. Not only that, his progress has stalled to a point of getting scratched multiple times incl. in the SCF. Sure, Ducharme might have preferred the old wheels of Staal because his experience provided more reassurance (which i didn't agree with) but the truth is KK hadn't done anything to sway the coach in his favor.

I truly hope for KK to explode and become the player he's supposed to be but I also understand the pessimism around the young lad because he's played so many games for us already and we haven't seen much.

 

[417]

This guy is Timmins biggest cheerleader. All this graph shows is reminding us KK has played so many goddamn games already. And this is why some people are worried because after so many games played, we haven't seen anything that shows he will become a dominant center. Not only that, his progress has stalled to a point of getting scratched in the SCF. Sure, Ducharme might have preferred the old wheels of Staal because his experience provided more reassurance (which i didn't agree with) but the truth is KK hadn't done anything to sway the coach in his favor.

I truly hope for KK to explode and become the player he's supposed to be but I also understand the pessimism around the young lad because he's played so many games for us already and we haven't seen much.

I think you need to really look into the data in that graph again if that's all you're seizing from it.

As for Kotkaniemi not having done anything in the playoffs...

He finished 2nd on the team for goals scored the entire the playoffs.

 

[Habnot]

This is a terrible argument...

Kotkaniemi was scratched because the coach wanted to change the series momentum by inserting Jake Evans and he didn't have the courage to sit the worse player on the ice in Eric Staal.

Kotkaniemi was the easy choice - which just reinforces how badly they've handled him so far.

Ducharme needed to win a game and did what he felt he needed to do, which was bench Kotkaniemi...that's not surprising, for 3 years Koktaniemi hasn't been part of the solution when it comes to winning games for this coaching staff.

Hopefully, that changes this coming year.

As if the coaches always gets it right....are we to give Ducharme credit for sitting Caufield for the first two playoff games and responsible for hs 12 points? Or did he just misread Caufield's readiness?

KK's development is being seriously impacted by the Habs philosophy of defense first. I am not arguing that he would be a complete player elsewhere, but let's say he's with the Leafs. Do you think he would be playing on a third line with irregular linemates, limiting his opportunities, and asking him to develop his weakness instead of amplifying his strengths?

That being said, maybe this is why the Leafs have not won a playoff round. I don't totally disagree with how KK is being managed. But I can see the path he's been on and I am not going to lay it directly at his feet.

 

[26Mats]

I think you need to really look into the data in that graph again if that's all you're seizing from it.

As for Kotkaniemi not having done anything in the playoffs...

He finished 2nd on the team for goals scored the entire the playoffs.

In the NHL he's been most effective as a goal scorer. So he should really play with a playmaking winger. Perhaps one of Hoffman, Toffoli, or Drouin, and then Gallagher on the other wing.

But in Laval, he was getting like 1 assist per game.

So long term he has potential to be both a scorer and a playmaker - plus a good defensive center. We really have to be patient with this guy until he's 25 years old. Unless, we get get an Eichel with him as a main piece in the package.

 

[Wats]

IMO this is misleading due to only comparing to successes. They should also include guys who ended up failing like Galchenyuk to give more perspective.

Feel like everyone can agree KK has a lot further to grow before being on the same level as any of those players.

 

[Miller Time]

IMO this is misleading due to only comparing to successes. They should also include guys who ended up failing like Galchenyuk to give more perspective.

Feel like everyone can agree KK has a lot further to grow before being on the same level as any of those players.

that's the point though... comparatively, there's zero reason to look at what the player has done thus far and arrive at a conclusion that he's a bust, or will never be more than a 3rd line C, or any of the other hot takes with zero grounding in reality that many posters like to rant about in JKO threads.

For his age, he's done more than most players do, including several who went on to become elite, if not HOF caliber players.

What will happen to JKO's career from here has way more to do with how much further he grows, as you point out, than with what he's done thus far... all he's done is proven that he's an NHL caliber player, and one that was able to achieve a level of productivity that few players his age do.

 

[ZUKI]

KK was the Habs player that played the most games last season. He did play a lot of games in his country, before coming in Montreal playing all those games every 2 days.

He once said himself how hard it was for him to play each games every 2-3 days.
With the playoffs run, it wasn't a surprise that Ducharme didn't play him at the end of the finals. KK was having too much problem to keep the focus on his game.

I like our KK, and he will be a very special player as soon as he put some strength to his body

 

[MSLs absurd thighs]

This is a terrible argument...

Kotkaniemi was scratched because the coach wanted to change the series momentum by inserting Jake Evans and he didn't have the courage to sit the worse player on the ice in Eric Staal.

Kotkaniemi was the easy choice - which just reinforces how badly they've handled him so far.

Ducharme needed to win a game and did what he felt he needed to do, which was bench Kotkaniemi...that's not surprising, for 3 years Koktaniemi hasn't been part of the solution when it comes to winning games for this coaching staff.

Hopefully, that changes this coming year.

"Koktaniemi hasn't been part of the solution when it comes to winning games for this coaching staff."

Kotkaniemi, for the most part, has not been an integral part of the solution when it comes to winning games, period. Let's stop acting as if it was Suzuki that he sat. And let's stop pretending those coaches don't know just why they did that.

 

[ZUKI]

This is a terrible argument...

Kotkaniemi was scratched because the coach wanted to change the series momentum by inserting Jake Evans and he didn't have the courage to sit the worse player on the ice in Eric Staal.

Kotkaniemi was the easy choice - which just reinforces how badly they've handled him so far.

Ducharme needed to win a game and did what he felt he needed to do, which was bench Kotkaniemi...that's not surprising, for 3 years Koktaniemi hasn't been part of the solution when it comes to winning games for this coaching staff.

Hopefully, that changes this coming year.

Come on ! Ducharme had his team in the finals and you are telling us that he didn't have the courage to sit old Staal ?
He would have made anything to win, so the last think he had in his mind was the feelings of Eric Staal

 

[417]

As if the coaches always gets it right....are we to give Ducharme credit for sitting Caufield for the first two playoff games and responsible for hs 12 points? Or did he just misread Caufield's readiness?

KK's development is being seriously impacted by the Habs philosophy of defense first. I am not arguing that he would be a complete player elsewhere, but let's say he's with the Leafs. Do you think he would be playing on a third line with irregular linemates, limiting his opportunities, and asking him to develop his weakness instead of amplifying his strengths?

That being said, maybe this is why the Leafs have not won a playoff round. I don't totally disagree with how KK is being managed. But I can see the path he's been on and I am not going to lay it directly at his feet.

I think Kotkaniemi has done as well as can be expected for how he's been used.

He was fast tracked and all the team has tried to do since is put the breaks on it...which is odd since they're the ones who sped up the clock.

 

[Habnot]

"Koktaniemi hasn't been part of the solution when it comes to winning games for this coaching staff."

Kotkaniemi, for the most part, has not been an integral part of the solution when it comes to winning games, period. Let's stop acting as if it was Suzuki that he sat. And let's stop pretending those coaches don't know just why they did that.

Wow - KK was 1st in the team for games played (tied with Suzuki) last year. He was part of the solution for winning games - at least I guess the Habs were trying to win games in the regular season. He also played in OT when the Habs were facing elimination? Was he not part of the winning formula?

And yes sometimes coaches get it wrong. Are you selectively backing the coach or can you make the same reasoning for leaving Romanov in the stands for Merrill and Gustafsson?

 

[417]

IMO this is misleading due to only comparing to successes. They should also include guys who ended up failing like Galchenyuk to give more perspective.

Feel like everyone can agree KK has a lot further to grow before being on the same level as any of those players.

I also feel like we should be agreeing that Kotkaniemi is doing as well, and in many cases, better than the players listed in that tweet.

With considerably less usage and confidence from his coaching staff.

This matters when projecting.

 

[TesseractPrice]

Not against anybody here, but it's weird how in hockey the arguments about the trajectory of the career of a given young player always revolve around comparing points totals of successful or unsuccessful other players. Comparing raw point totals without context spanning on sometimes decades is completely baseless. It devolves into an endless ping-pong game where people exchange examples of now great players and bust

There are better prediction tools out there like puck possession and per 60 stats, and, even then, these are generally very team dependent

I feel like the conversation should be centered on the player himself, what he needs to work on, how much he improved and in what time span, his injury record, and the projected level of improvements in different area with different time milestones

 

[417]

"Koktaniemi hasn't been part of the solution when it comes to winning games for this coaching staff."

Kotkaniemi, for the most part, has not been an integral part of the solution when it comes to winning games, period. Let's stop acting as if it was Suzuki that he sat. And let's stop pretending those coaches don't know just why they did that.

As long as we also stop pretending coaches always make the right decisions.

 

[Heffyhoof]

People who are trying to rationalize how being a healthy scratch 3 years into the start of his NHL career is not exactly "meeting expectations" from a 3rd overall pick, or who are actively blaming the coaching staff for it aren't even worth an argument.

Let's see what happens this season on the ice. And you tell me who's going to come up with excuses when he struggles to hit 35 points once again.

In his draft year + 4 season, Galchenyuk had a 30 goals, 56 points season. Your move, KK.

"KK was benched so he sucks lol.' Another great gem.

I guess I'll also have to rationalize how both Caufield and Romanov were also benched. I mean they are both around half a year of Kotkaniemi's age regardless of you using the organization's rushing of him as a point against him. Sucks that all three of these kids are hopeless busts.

 

[417]

Come on ! Ducharme had his team in the finals and you are telling us that he didn't have the courage to sit old Staal ?
He would have made anything to win, so the last think he had in his mind was the feelings of Eric Staal

I don't have an issue with what he did...I think he did what he thought he needed to do to win and in the playoffs, i'll never knock a coach for that.

But he clearly took the "easy" decision to make.

 

[417]

Not against anybody here, but it's weird how in hockey the arguments about the trajectory of the career of a given young player always revolve around comparing points totals of successful or unsuccessful other players. Comparing raw point totals without context spanning on sometimes decades is completely baseless. It devolves into an endless ping-pong game where people exchange examples of now great players and bust

There are better prediction tools out there like puck possession and per 60 stats, and, even then, these are generally very team dependent

I feel like the conversation should be centered on the player himself, what he needs to work on, how much he improved and in what time span, his injury record, and the projected level of improvements in different area with different time milestones

I only look at other young players for perspective...I don't think how Couturier or Zibanejad developed means that's exactly how it's going to go for Kotkaniemi.

It just serves as a reminder that closing the books on a player at 21yrs of age, is ill advised.

 

[BLONG7]

"Koktaniemi hasn't been part of the solution when it comes to winning games for this coaching staff."

Kotkaniemi, for the most part, has not been an integral part of the solution when it comes to winning games, period. Let's stop acting as if it was Suzuki that he sat. And let's stop pretending those coaches don't know just why they did that.

KK literally scored the WINNING goal vs the Leafs, that sent us to game 7...............seriously, this kid has never been given a fair shot, and we all know it.....
LOL....hasn't been part of the solution, when it comes to winning games!! LOL............9 playoff goals before turning 21 years old!!
LOL

 

[BLONG7]

As long as we also stop pretending coaches always make the right decisions.

These are the coaches who SAT Caufield, KK and Romanov to start the playoffs!! LOL....
Man, some hot takes at times on this board.

 

[dcyhabs]

Coaches always go with veterans and safe players. They get credit for defense but not for offense, and it's way tougher for them to piss off a veteran than a rookie, the rookie is supposed to earn every minute. Scratching JK, who was young, high offense, less defense, is what most coaches would do.

Question is whether Kotkaniemi can recover from going to the NHL to early.

 

[417]

Coaches always go with veterans and safe players. They get credit for defense but not for offense, and it's way tougher for them to piss off a veteran than a rookie, the rookie is supposed to earn every minute. Scratching JK, who was young, high offense, less defense, is what most coaches would do.

That's basically the way 90% of NHL coaches operate...I don't agree with it, but whatever.

Question I have was what was the point of fast tracking him to the NHL ?

Question is whether Kotkaniemi can recover from going to the NHL to early.

I don't think he really has anything to "recover" from...he's played about as well as can be expected, in the role he's been given.

The real question, IMO, is are the Habs and their coaching staff ready/willing to take the reigns off and let him play?

 

[ZUKI]

These are the coaches who SAT Caufield, KK and Romanov to start the playoffs!! LOL....
Man, some hot takes at times on this board.

Coaches did well because they then played very well. You see !
S. Bowman used to do the same thing to let them see the different pace of the playoffs and the different kind of game teams are playing. So, what you say about Ducharme is what you would have said about Bowman ? The Scotty Bowman, ladies and gentlemen .

 

[TopTenPlayz]

I think you need to really look into the data in that graph again if that's all you're seizing from it.

As for Kotkaniemi not having done anything in the playoffs...

He finished 2nd on the team for goals scored the entire the playoffs.

Eric staal had as many points as kk in the playoffs. We'll see how kk stack up against those players in the future. I don't think relying solely on advanced stats is a good idea. Now, I don't remember watching any of the other players play when they were 18-21 so I won't pretend I did. I can only talk about KK as I see him play often. Im not giving up on him but there's so many areas that he has to work on.

Starting with the basics of basics such as staying on his feet and not falling after a pivot (see the Weber goal against Vegas) and quicker decision making. Too often, he's way too slow to think and make a decision (like his shot). The NHL is played on a small rink so he's got to have quicker instincts. Bergevin hasn't given up so kk (he let danaut go), and neither have I. I was happy to see Danault go as that would give kk more opportunities. But it's normal to be not so optimistisch about his progression based on his play (my viewings) and based on Timmins draft record.

 

[BLONG7]

Coaches did well because they then played very well. You see !
S. Bowman used to do the same thing to let them see the different pace of the playoffs and the different kind of game teams are playing. So, what you say about Ducharme is what you would have said about Bowman ? The Scotty Bowman, ladies and gentlemen .

There it is, we have fans who compare Dom to Scotty.............boy oh boy, I absolutely hope you are right!!!

 

[Belial]

There it is, we have fans who compare Dom to Scotty.............boy oh boy, I absolutely hope you are right!!!

Comparing Dom to Scotty was not the point of that post.

He just said Bowman was handling rookies/young players the same way Dom did.