Jake Gardiner 2015-2016 Expectations

[Sypher04]

Rielly benefited more by playing with Gardiner than the reverse. Jake continued to be the ES pivot under Horachek. I didn't see Rielly being given increased preference under that stretch.

I really don't see how you've drawn that conclusion, but to each their own.

 

[Macman]

Watching Strålman play for other teams really hurt. He's ridiculously good.

On another note, it seems that a certain poster disappeared yet again when asked to justify his beliefs by something else than self-aggrandizing.

Maybe he's just tired of beating his head against a wall. It's a pointless argument that no one is going to win. Also, if you're going to accuse someone of condescension and self-aggrandizing, less gloating would probably help.

 

[Nithoniniel]

I really don't see how you've drawn that conclusion, but to each their own.

It's a rather easy conclusion to make statistically. Gardiner was already doing great, saw a small effect. Rielly saw a big increase statistically as soon as that pairing was formed.

It's a very logical conclusion to draw, and it at least fit my eye-test.

Maybe he's just tired of beating his head against a wall. It's a pointless argument that no one is going to win. Also, if you're going to accuse someone of condescension and self-aggrandizing, less gloating would probably help.

It's a wall of his own making in that case. I'm very capable of listening if one actually brings arguments.

But you are right, that comment was perhaps unnecessary. It's just that we have done this dance before to the same effect.

 

[Macman]

It's a rather easy conclusion to make statistically. Gardiner was already doing great, saw a small effect. Rielly saw a big increase statistically as soon as that pairing was formed.

It's a very logical conclusion to draw, and it at least fit my eye-test.



It's a wall of his own making in that case. I'm very capable of listening if one actually brings arguments.

But you are right, that comment was perhaps unnecessary. It's just that we have done this dance before to the same effect.

I'm trying to keep an open mind about Gardiner. I used to be a supporter but I see a regression in his game that I'm not sure he can overcome. Still, it would be repeating the same old Leafs mistake to unload him now. Let see what Babcock can do with him. I'm just not sure how you make him smarter.

 

[Nithoniniel]

I'm trying to keep an open mind about Gardiner. I used to be a supporter but I see a regression in his game that I'm not sure he can overcome. Still, it would be repeating the same old Leafs mistake to unload him now. Let see what Babcock can do with him. I'm just not sure how you make him smarter.

Puzzles. Obviously.

 

[Macman]

Puzzles. Obviously.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Puzzles. Obviously.

he needs some extensive training with Freddy

 

[Nithoniniel]

he needs some extensive training with Freddy

That's why it's good that we drafted the Goat. He brings these extra intangibles.

 

[Jerkini]

I'm hoping he has a plus season, around 40 points ideally. That's what I want.

 

[Daisy Jane]

All i want is to never. ever. see Jake chasing butterflies with his hockey stick again. Ever.

anything else will be gravy

 

[Darkside Blue]

All i want is to never. ever. see Jake chasing butterflies with his hockey stick again. Ever.

anything else will be gravy

Well, it'd be nice if he got over that timidity about being hit, he was worse than Kessel for a lot the season. And I'd really like to see an end to those godawful pond hockey blind passes he makes. It made me think the Leafs should drug test him, to see if he was smoking too much weed, he was playing like a total pothead sometimes.

 

[91Kadri91*]

Maybe he's just tired of beating his head against a wall. It's a pointless argument that no one is going to win. Also, if you're going to accuse someone of condescension and self-aggrandizing, less gloating would probably help.

You do understand that his initial views were not only incontrovertibly erroneous, but his successive assertions were built on his factually inaccurate proclamations, yes? Perhaps if he had stopped banging his head against the wall, he would have realized that his narrative was not only completely absurd, but the opinions he built on said declarations were, consequently, equally asinine.

 

[ACC1224]

I'm hoping he has a plus season, around 40 points ideally. That's what I want.

His defense will need a lot of improvement to have a plus season.

 

[Nithoniniel]

His defense will need a lot of improvement to have a plus season.

Plus/Minus. Gardiner's problem is that he doesn't have pluses, not because he's got many minuses.

If we continued to score as little as we did, then he'd have to pretty much stop being on the ice for goals altogether to be a plus player. Let's just say that it would be impressive.

 

[ACC1224]

Plus/Minus. Gardiner's problem is that he doesn't have pluses, not because he's got many minuses.

If we continued to score as little as we did, then he'd have to pretty much stop being on the ice for goals altogether to be a plus player. Let's just say that it would be impressive.

I don't think Babcocks answer to poor defense will be to try and score more.

 

[91Kadri91*]

I don't think Babcocks answer to poor defense will be to try and score more.

Except Gardiner isn't poor defensively.

Quite the opposite, in fact.

 

[Purity*]

Watching Strålman play for other teams really hurt. He's ridiculously good.

On another note, it seems that a certain poster disappeared yet again when asked to justify his beliefs by something else than self-aggrandizing.

Quite the Deja Vu seeing the same thing against Gardiner eh?

I was a huge Stralman supporter back in the day and was very upset when we gave up on him after 88 games

 

[Nithoniniel]

I don't think Babcocks answer to poor defense will be to try and score more.

You kind of missed my point. If one would look at +/-, and I don't think one should, it was a product of Gardiner not seeing a lot of offense when he was on the ice. He didn't get a bad +/- because he was scored on a lot. Quite the contrary.

Quite the Deja Vu seeing the same thing against Gardiner eh?

I was a huge Stralman supporter back in the day and was very upset when we gave up on him after 88 games

Yeah I was a big Strålman guy as well, but I'm not going to pretend it's because I understood how good he was. I was always a fan, and liked him even more after some stellar national play and then getting picked for the Leafs.

I was a more casual fan back then. And young.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Quite the Deja Vu seeing the same thing against Gardiner eh?

I was a huge Stralman supporter back in the day and was very upset when we gave up on him after 88 games

You kind of missed my point. If one would look at +/-, and I don't think one should, it was a product of Gardiner not seeing a lot of offense when he was on the ice. He didn't get a bad +/- because he was scored on a lot. Quite the contrary.



Yeah I was a big Strålman guy as well, but I'm not going to pretend it's because I understood how good he was. I was always a fan, and liked him even more after some stellar national play and then getting picked for the Leafs.

I was a more casual fan back then. And young.

i was in Korea (or doing something educational and couldn't watch much hockey). but it irritates me on principle 88 games is not enough to make decisions on that. For whatever flogging Carlyle gets, if we keep Jake and he breaks out how we all hope, his insistence on keeping him for 300+ NHL games will be a great parting gift.

 

[Menzinger]

No. He is not.

When he is on the ice, the Leafs are far more likely to have control of the puck than not and limit shots against. I'd say that's a pretty clear mark that Jake is a good defensive player.

 

[ACC1224]

That's very true.

"He skates like Niedermayer!" I remember people saying. So he MUST end up being the next Scott Niedermayer, right? LOL

I think you hold onto Jake unless someone sends over a really, really hard to pass up trade. Just because someone isn't going to be a big minute hogging #1 defenseman doesn't mean they're useless. At 24 years old Jake could be a major part of our second pairing in the future.

I don't think anyone believe's Gardiner is useless, he struggles defensively and needs to work on that.

 

[egd27]

Jason Gardiner? I'll have to take your word for it; I can't say I've ever seen the guy play an NHL game (I get the reference).

Jake Gardiner, however, is a great defensive player.

No one on the team currently can be described as a great defensive player.

 

[Reddaye]

I don't think anyone believe's Gardiner is useless, he struggles defensively and needs to work on that.

There are plenty of times that I've seen people say Gardiner is useless, stupid, and everything else. Yes, it's said in the heat of the moment, but it's still said.

He has plenty of room for improvement, but my point is I don't see the logic in pushing him out the door when he's still young and learning.

 

[p.l.f.]

Reilly and Gardiner are buddies that might be the only thing that keeps him here

 

[91Kadri91*]

Reilly and Gardiner are buddies that might be the only thing that keeps him here

Or, y'know, the fact that he's a good hockey player.