Player Discussion: Jake Bean discussion

[VT]

No, you didn't. He was asking for moments of "Gavrikov sucks" and "Bean shines", but instead you provided a clip where you piled crap on the only 2 out of 6 that didn't really fail their job, Gavrikov & Elvis. It's like you didn't watch your own clip at all. Oh yes, you found out Laine was also playing bad on that clip, as it was completely related to the subject in hand: Jake Bean (and other D like Gavrikov).

Sometimes it's enough that you shove your guy 1+ meter off their position like Gavrikov did, but sometimes they are strong or lucky enough to make the deflection nevertheless. And that happened.

Now find me the higligh moments, like the defenders work around the boards, in front of the net if they don't score the odd goal, or aren't spectacular hits. It's easy to win duels with players who are worse at it. Further, how did he move the player when Erne could have comfortably set the stick?
Regarding Bean. He's not the defensive guru you consider Gavrikov to be, but he has a better distribution, hockey mindset. If he steps up, there's a better chance of keeping the puck away from the net.

 

[Halberdier]

Here’s a “good” video. Jake Bean isn’t the problem.



This shit is the problem.

So you found a highlight video where McDavid, Draisaitl and their buddies find a way to score against Gavrikov on 5-on-3 and 5-on-4 and then some scrubs are able to score against Bean on 5-on-5 after Bean fumbles the puck below his own blue line. Bean also takes a penalty, since that was the only thing he could do against McDavid.

Marvellous.

How about taking a time with some non-cherrypicked full game video and give some timestamps where to look?

 

[thebus88]

Unfortunately, moments how Gavrikov losing battles at the boards aren't in the high-lights. Aso, how a tough player gets pushed out in front of the goalie. And because playing is much harder and faster in PO.... . I'm not a Gavrikov's hater, I know he's a very, very good person. But if he doesn't improve his physical game, his max is 5-6 defenseman. But he still has time.

I might ask what Bjorkie was doing. But the fact is that playing your player like that in front of the goalie is just nonsense for a "defensive and tough" player.

Gavrikov and Peeke are all over the other teams highlights. While Peeke has some room for growth, it’s safe to say Gavrikov is what he will be. I’d like to see him actually drop weight to attempt to add to his agility/mobility, and that clearly wouldn’t help him with the things that you notice he has issues with.

I added in a follow up post that all 5 guys were all over the place on that DET goal. Jenner and the defense running all around while Bjorkstrand’s and Laine barely move up and down the boards.

I’d like Bjorkstrand’s anticipation, urgency and gap control to better getting out to the point, but, it’s out of his control that the guy closest to him shot the puck. He’s easily shown giving more effort and better positioning than the other winger, and I could make the case the he’s the LEAST responsible of the entire 5 (or 6) man unit, for the puck going in.

 

[thebus88]

No, you chastised the guy for posting 1 game tape, then turn around and do similar that supports your side...that isn't how things work...thats hypocrisy

I didn’t “chastise” anybody.

I attempted to make a point, and to question how valuable or worthwhile it would be for me to post every “good” or “bad” play made by Gavrikov/Bean during an individual game, as I can see the debate quickly turning into “sample size” and just how important any given play is.

But sure, I’ll spend my time to deeply evaluate an individual game, to come up with the same conclusions, that you guys can blindly and ignorantly dismiss.

I don’t see you guys posting anything other than personal attacks…..just sayin.

 

[thebus88]

So you found a highlight video where McDavid, Draisaitl and their buddies find a way to score against Gavrikov on 5-on-3 and 5-on-4 and then some scrubs are able to score against Bean on 5-on-5 after Bean fumbles the puck below his own blue line. Bean also takes a penalty, since that was the only thing he could do against McDavid.

Marvellous.

How about taking a time with some non-cherrypicked full game video and give some timestamps where to look?

Did you WATCH the goals?? Much of these goals aren’t really even on Gavrikov, but, it shows ITS NOT ON BEAN. That said, Gavrikov IS NOT what he gets credit for, while around the net. How many of these goals around the net while he’s out there, are “tap ins”?? Elvis is another culprit in relation to this.

It shows bad things about Werenski and that Peeke’s defensive awareness isn’t any better than Boqvist, just increased size and aggression/intensity.

Also, you’re REALLY not gonna like what I do with that “full game video”….hopefully you got a big bucket.

 

[Fro]

Whoa is you...

 

[thebus88]

No, you didn't. He was asking for moments of "Gavrikov sucks" and "Bean shines", but instead you provided a clip where you piled crap on the only 2 out of 6 that didn't really fail their job, Gavrikov & Elvis. It's like you didn't watch your own clip at all. Oh yes, you found out Laine was also playing bad on that clip, as it was completely related to the subject in hand: Jake Bean (and other D like Gavrikov).

Sometimes it's enough that you shove your guy 1+ meter off their position like Gavrikov did, but sometimes they are strong or lucky enough to make the deflection nevertheless. And that happened.

To add, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that all 5 players are all over the ice looking like shit covering nobody, and that Patrik Laine is out there.

Any defenseman who failed to tie up the stick of the guy who scored in that exact situation, failed.

How Merzlikins handles tipped/deflected every game, is a failure.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

A lot of posts in this thread about Jake Bean, a necro-ed thread at that, that don’t mention, even in passing, Jake Bean.

 

[thebus88]

I like the guys skill set. I just can’t see where he fits

The top pair.

 

[thebus88]

I like the guys skill set. I just can’t see where he fits

Would you say that’s because of players like Gavrikov, Peeke, and Boqvist and that they apparently add things to the team that Bean does not?

 

[Doggy]

I realize I am just extending this inane beating of a dead horse but...

If Bean is so good, how come he lost his job on the top pair to Peeke and Lars even skated him on the third pairing late in the season behind a freaking undrafted college signing?

That said, doesn't matter what any of us think. He's 24 and playing his third year in the NHL. This is a put up or shut up year for him. He's gotta show marked improvement over last season or his future on this roster has nothing to do with Gavrikov, Peeke, Boqvist or any of the prospects and has everything to do with himself.

 

[Fro]

I realize I am just extending this inane beating of a dead horse but...

If Bean is so good, how come he lost his job on the top pair to Peeke and Lars even skated him on the third pairing late in the season behind a freaking undrafted college signing?

That said, doesn't matter what any of us think. He's 24 and playing his third year in the NHL. This is a put up or shut up year for him. He's gotta show marked improvement over last season or his future on this roster has nothing to do with Gavrikov, Peeke, Boqvist or any of the prospects and has everything to do with himself.

Obviously Lars doesn't see it

 

[ProfessorFink22]

I realize I am just extending this inane beating of a dead horse but...

If Bean is so good, how come he lost his job on the top pair to Peeke and Lars even skated him on the third pairing late in the season behind a freaking undrafted college signing?

That said, doesn't matter what any of us think. He's 24 and playing his third year in the NHL. This is a put up or shut up year for him. He's gotta show marked improvement over last season or his future on this roster has nothing to do with Gavrikov, Peeke, Boqvist or any of the prospects and has everything to do with himself.

+1. Too many guys coming, if he can't make ajump to be an 'undoubted-top-four-guy' by the time his conract is up, I feel like one or two of the many other defensive options will. I can't say for certain he will become that top four guy more than Peeke, Boq, Blankenberg or the non roster guys who could be coming about the time his contract expires.

He intrigues me, and I'm actually a fan, but could also be a guy who has all the tools but can't put them together. I see him as another lottery ticket to become a legit #2/3 dman like the other guys.

Regarding Gavrikov: He's only two years older than all these 'young guys' like Blankenburg, Peeke, and Bean. Many Dmen hit the next level at Gavrikov's age now, especially when he came to the NHL relatively late. Also, seems like a huge locker room guy. I think in a rigorous 82 game schedule, people seriously underrate that. I've played junior hockey with a 60 game season before and by the end of that, you really really value guys who make your days better and you can really resent guys who don't. (This is nothing to do with Bean or saying anything about his character, I just think Gavrikov brings a positive value there). Of course, none of us are in the room with these guys to know for sure, but I think Gavrikov has leadership value.

 

[LJ7]

So you guys want me to evaluate the gameplay of a single selected game, and point out the individual plays where Bean and Gavrikov makes a “good” or “bad” play?? Ok, give me a sec.

Yeah.

Also, you’re REALLY not gonna like what I do with that “full game video”….hopefully you got a big bucket.

It's not really about whether I or anyone else will "like it" or not. I guess I can't speak for anyone else but I just disagree with how you see them as players so I'm curious to see what you'd take issue with over the course of a normal game. Not as dramatic as you're framing it.

 

[tunnelvision]

So you guys want me to evaluate the gameplay of a single selected game, and point out the individual plays where Bean and Gavrikov makes a “good” or “bad” play?? Ok, give me a sec.

I know it may sound like a lot (no sarcasm here), but that's what I asked for. No need to analyze every single play in the game necessarily, but at least some of them.

I attempted to make a point, and to question how valuable or worthwhile it would be for me to post every “good” or “bad” play made by Gavrikov/Bean during an individual game, as I can see the debate quickly turning into “sample size” and just how important any given play is.

But sure, I’ll spend my time to deeply evaluate an individual game, to come up with the same conclusions, that you guys can blindly and ignorantly dismiss.

We don't have to go through the proposed exercise if you don't want to. I just thought it could have helped me to understand your view on these two players better. Right now I have no clue how many bad decisions you see Gavrikov committing to during a single game, and how many great plays you see from Bean. And vice versa. And how much of those good and bad individual plays outweigh the rest of their games.

You wouldn't even have to break down each play on every shift of both players, you could just watch all their shifts in one period (if full 60 minutes is too much work) and roughly categorize them as "bad", "ok" and "good" shifts.

But if you really want to comment on the plays in detail, this kind of format would be easy for me to read:

[insert full game video link here]

8:00 - Gavrikov should've done B instead of A, because of C and D
1:05:30 - Bean makes a great play here because of E, F and G
etc.

After you having done the "bad/ok/good" shift categorization exercise, I would watch the tape too and do the same exercise, and then we could compare our results. Depending on the results we could then consider which direction we should take next in the discussion? I would be surprised if we hadn't reached greater agreement/understanding of each others' views at that point...

 

[majormajor]

I realize I am just extending this inane beating of a dead horse but...

If Bean is so good, how come he lost his job on the top pair to Peeke and Lars even skated him on the third pairing late in the season behind a freaking undrafted college signing?

That said, doesn't matter what any of us think. He's 24 and playing his third year in the NHL. This is a put up or shut up year for him. He's gotta show marked improvement over last season or his future on this roster has nothing to do with Gavrikov, Peeke, Boqvist or any of the prospects and has everything to do with himself.

I am not super optimistic that Bean makes his way into the top 4 long term, as more and more talent ripens. But to be fair to Bean, he was playing better earlier in the year. He got injured and never seemed to get his legs back, that's the obvious reason why his ice time was cut.

 

[thebus88]

@thebus88 @VT Could you please do me a favor and point (with timestamps) some of the "Gavrikov sucks" and "Bean is underrated" moments on the video below you two have been talking about? I, among many others, still don't quite understand what you're exactly referring to with these type of posts.



This is NSH-CBJ from November. You can pick another full game video on yt instead of this one in case you feel their performance in this game wasn't the best example of their "normal" level of play. I chose this because based on the first 10 minutes Gavrikov-Bean is one of the Jackets D pairs, so you don't have to spend as much time trying to find each shift of either player.

—11/30/21 vs NSH — Defense Heavy Evaluation— “Another Turnover” Edition —

Any time, -example- (5:30) listed is time LEFT on the game clock.

Have to take it period by period or I’ll quit like Torts did. Overall, the CBJ team playing “man to man” coverage is BRUTAL. They don’t have the “group awareness” or individual defensive ability to pull it off.

Boqvist
Overall the Boqvist/Werenski pairing is a perfect example of the offense NOT making up for the defense. Their overly lackadaisical play is bad enough separately, together, it’s literally hard to watch. Anybody who is penciling in a Werenski-Boqvist pairing to start the year should watch this 1st period. Sloppy play with and without the puck. They BOTH run around on their 1st shift and get lucky NSH goes offsides. Goal 2 (at 7:20) is on Werenski with a bad pinch and Boqvist seemingly doing the worst possible thing he could try on the 2 on 1. At (11:40) they both focus on players behind the net/to the outside and a guy crashes the slot w a great chance.

Peeke
Mostly uneventful period for Peeke, but, not a good period at all. (17:25) A terrible dump/giveaway off the glass with no pressure at all as the team changes and a teammate motions to go back far side/D to D. (15:15) Good 1 on 1 on Duchene that gets trumped by not finishing the sequence. This is goal 1. Terrible by almost everybody on the ice. After the good play on Duchene, Peeke gets zero help in the corner from a BS “flyby” from Kuraly, then he unnecessarily follows a guy behind the net, which is what I blame him for. Kuraly is nowhere. Texier and Nyquist watch Forsberg tip toe into the area Peeke just was and should have never left, and react nowhere near quick enough, as Nyquist takes a look over at the open point Kuraly is doing nothing to cover, and the puck is in. At (12:35) we have a clean defensive zone faceoff win back to Peeke that he attempts to flip out and shoots off Beyreuther that turns into something bad just like that. Goal 3 is a turnover on Beyreuther, yet Roslovic/Peeke have the wrong/slow reaction and focus on the guys in the corner, when the most dangerous guy on the ice is wide open in the slot.

BS no call “corkscrew” hook from Josi on Danforth after calling Chinakhov for same type shit earlier on and an absolute SHIT icing call with 5 seconds left.

Gavrikov
(14:33) Lack of awareness breaks up a breakout pass from Texier to Bean. (10:55) Turnover outlet bank pass. (10:05) Clean PK faceoff win he fails to get out. (4:37) Nice fake shot/pass over to Bean. (3:18) Giveaway around the boards that he makes up for defensively, but, leads to extended zone time/chances and multiple Bean blocked shots. The last shift (last 25 secs) is a shitshow. Sums up the team defensively as a whole, both Gavrikov/Bean run around, but, Gavrikov has weak gap control, misses a pass and there is a good one-timer scoring chance against.

Bean
People will of course be upset and distracted from everything said prior, without seeing much said about Bean, but, he really had a mostly uneventful, but still good, period. Last shift is bad, and at (1:35) he has a pretty lazy pinch along the boards, yet Domi imo deserves more blame, that leads to a 2 on 1, that Gavrikov doesn’t attack the shooter as I would like him, he goes to the ice to attempt to block and a good shot ends up on net. The 1st shift Bean has a pretty open shot from the point that is blocked, that the opposing forward does a good job, but, he should get the puck to the net there. At (7:00) Duchene coming into the zone, has speed and an angle on Bean and bumps him back, but, Bean recovers and follows him behind the net to finish the play and knock the puck away. At (3:10) and (2:55) he has 2 good blocks on Forsberg, after Gavrikov gives the puck away coming out of the zone.

And at (5:10) NSH’s play by play helps influence the naming of this hell of a period I just witnessed. This play along with the lack of communication/action on the earlier Forsberg goal, taints the Nyquist/Texier combo for me.

Also, you guys haven’t even got me started on what the goalies both looked like. I know, Jake Bean thread.

 

[thebus88]

No need to analyze every single play in the game necessarily, but at least some of them.

You wouldn't even have to break down each play on every shift of both players, you could just watch all their shifts in one period (if full 60 minutes is too much work) and roughly categorize them as "bad", "ok" and "good" shifts.

If somebody respectfully asks for my “complex” analysis on the individual actions/plays on the ice I will gladly give them. To be clear, watching these f***s play defense is what’s taking so much outta me, not posting in detail what I see.

People attempt to paint me in all types of different ways, and my humor and delivery might not be for everybody, but I know what I am talking about when it comes to the game. People disagreeing with me is 1 thing, attacking my “personality” to belittle my opinions or misrepresent them altogether, is another.

 

[VT]

If somebody respectfully asks for my “complex” analysis on the individual actions/plays on the ice I will gladly give them. To be clear, watching these f***s play defense is what’s taking so much outta me, not posting in detail what I see.

People attempt to paint me in all types of different ways, and my humor and delivery might not be for everybody, but I know what I am talking about when it comes to the game. People disagreeing with me is 1 thing, attacking my “personality” to belittle my opinions or misrepresent them altogether, is another.

But you write it if it's the definitive truth sometimes, which is why I can't forgive myself a little tease.

 

[Byrral]

I think Bean may be expendable but I do wonder about others being mentioned in this thread. I think Jarmo still has many future moves away from solidifying this defense so who knows who ends up being a long term player beyond Werenski.

Now you can carry on with past grievances and Torts discussions.

 

[thebus88]

I am not super optimistic that Bean makes his way into the top 4 long term, as more and more talent ripens. But to be fair to Bean, he was playing better earlier in the year. He got injured and never seemed to get his legs back, that's the obvious reason why his ice time was cut.

Not to mention the teams outside the playoff race having an “evaluation” mindset near the end of the year.

Nothing I say will be able to counteract the in-depth idea or mindset that Bean, “lost his job on the top pair”, to Peeke.

 

[thebus88]

But you write it if it's the definitive truth sometimes, which is why I can't forgive myself a little tease.

What is the difference between your opinion and your truth?? Do people not BELIEVE what they think and say??

What is the difference?? SOMETHING is the “definitive truth”, something is “reality”, just because these things can’t be accurately measured doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

In most of these “polarized” or “black and white” arguments with such differing opinions, some people ARE right and some people ARE wrong.

 

[Doggy]

Nothing I say will be able to counteract the in-depth idea or mindset that Bean, “lost his job on the top pair”, to Peeke.

Bean didn't lose his job to Peeke (if I worded it that way then that's my bad). I suspect Bean was given the first crack next to Z in the regular season because the #1 pairing seemed a bit too rich for the inexperienced Boqvist.

Now I don't recall whether Bean was dropped down to give Peeke a chance or Peeke got the opportunity because Bean and Boqvist were both injured. I think it was the latter. In either case, Peeke did a reasonable job next to Z playing a simple game and Bean clearly had not made enough of an impression that he was more effective on the top pairing and deserved to simply slide back in next to Z.

At this very moment, this is less about talent/skill and more about fit. Is Peeke ever going to match Bean's scoring or passing? Most likely not. But I think Peeke played reasonably structured and physical defense so Z didn't have to worry as much about whether his partner was going to "be there" defensively and opened him up to more freely play his game.

Based on the current roster, I see Peeke going into this camp as the top RD and the gig is his to win or lose. Bean, Boqvist and Blanks have to flash or they are all battling to be Gavrikov's or Gudbranson's partners on the second and third pairing.

 

[VT]

What is the difference between your opinion and your truth?? Do people not BELIEVE what they think and say??

What is the difference?? SOMETHING is the “definitive truth”, something is “reality”, just because these things can’t be accurately measured doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

In most of these “polarized” or “black and white” arguments with such differing opinions, some people ARE right and some people ARE wrong.

Style of expression. Sometimes it really looks like that.

Bean didn't lose his job to Peeke (if I worded it that way then that's my bad). I suspect Bean was given the first crack next to Z in the regular season because the #1 pairing seemed a bit too rich for the inexperienced Boqvist.

Now I don't recall whether Bean was dropped down to give Peeke a chance or Peeke got the opportunity because Bean and Boqvist were both injured. I think it was the latter. In either case, Peeke did a reasonable job next to Z playing a simple game and Bean clearly had not made enough of an impression that he was more effective on the top pairing and deserved to simply slide back in next to Z.

At this very moment, this is less about talent/skill and more about fit. Is Peeke ever going to match Bean's scoring or passing? Most likely not. But I think Peeke played reasonably structured and physical defense so Z didn't have to worry as much about whether his partner was going to "be there" defensively and opened him up to more freely play his game.

Based on the current roster, I see Peeke going into this camp as the top RD and the gig is his to win or lose. Bean, Boqvist and Blanks have to flash or they are all battling to be Gavrikov's or Gudbranson's partners on the second and third pairing.

If Peeke is our best RHD, then we are assured of winning the lottery.

 

[Doggy]

If Peeke is our best RHD, then we are assured of winning the lottery.

He was our #1 RD last season and the closest we got to the lottery was Chicago. I'm not suggesting he is a #1 but for the moment he's our #1. And we keep talking about Bean getting better, last year was Peeke's rookie year...whose to say he won't be better this year too?

After totally screwing with his development in 2020-2021 burying him on the taxi squad so he played so few games, its remarkable how well he played. I fully expect him to be better this year compared to last season.