Jacob Trouba vs Dougie Hamilton

[bert]

Since Darius Kasparaitus.


Possibly even before that.



Honestly, i don't see how someone can watch Trouba play and frame him as "just a cheap shot artist" and completely discount the impact of that sort of player and physical threat to crossing the blueline, cruising into the corner to retrieve that puck, going to the net, etc.

Whether he's a "cheap shot artist" or not...there's a clear element of physicality to his game that is going to make certain players think an extra tick of the clock about things on the ice, and make some personal "business decisions" about just how vulnerable they're willing to make themselves when trying to make plays in the same vicinity as Trouba.


I feel like "Physicality" is the thing that a lot of fans most consistently fail to account for appropriately. It's probably the thing that the "analytics" have the biggest blindspot around. It's not about tallying up how many "hits" a guy accumulates, or PIMs or whatever directly measurable metric. It's about appreciating the presence a particular player physically imposes on the ice.


The strangest facet of the issue though, is that there seems to be some pretty universal recognition when a particularly completely and utterly lacks the "physicality" to be effective, at the opposite end of the spectrum. But for whatever reason, there's a midpoint in the scale where the evaluation stops sliding for a lot of people. Like there's a clear recognition that "soft as butter" is hugely detrimental to effectiveness. But somehow "physically imposing" at the opposite end is often discounted as not particularly relevant?

HF boards fans dont like physicality because its not quantifiable. They cant argue it in charts and advanced stats. Typically posters that have played the sport at a high enough level absolutely value it. Which is why nhl franchises value this aspect of the game. Its important, if posters are really watching playoff series and not just advanced stats even if they didnt play it should be identifiable. The intimidation factor is huge. Lining up against a guy like him and playing every second shift against him in a playoff series wares on guys mentally.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Guess we'll just pretend the Viel fight didnt happen

Tuned him up.

 

[Ignite111]

Probably because every player that steps up to him after he “cheap shots” gets absolutely pummeled.

Trouba hasn’t lost a single fight as a NYR

No one has gotten redemption on him. Not even with a simple decent body check

Who are all these guys he's pummeling lol? Would love to know. Some of the fights aren't even vrs guys that scrap. More guys that hop in to defend their teammates after a cheap shot. He has 1000% lost fights.

In reality, you are once again just biased and blinded because he's a Ranger. You are also the guy that voted he was top 20 D-man in the NHL.

I may be missing fights though to be fair. But these were all fights this past year.

Tkachuk - Lost
Anderson - Won
Stillman - Won
Landeskog - Close win
Viel - Loss
Shen - Close loss?
Pageau - Win? Not much there.

 

[Savant]

If you thought Trouba was bad in the playoffs, you haven’t seen Dougie in there.

 

[Taluss]

Hamilton

 

[Xirik]

So Trouba suddenly gets "leadership" qualities just because he was named captain?

Man, I didn't know titles came with stat buffs. I really need to grind for those!

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

Trouba is about as tough as the Rags fan who sucker punched the Bolts fan in the playoffs. Dougie has his issues and that contract will be rough in the 2nd half but still easily take him on his contract over Trouba on his.

edit: and don't forget, OP defended that dude. clearly has some issues

 

[tarheelhockey]

The strangest facet of the issue though, is that there seems to be some pretty universal recognition when a particularly completely and utterly lacks the "physicality" to be effective, at the opposite end of the spectrum. But for whatever reason, there's a midpoint in the scale where the evaluation stops sliding for a lot of people. Like there's a clear recognition that "soft as butter" is hugely detrimental to effectiveness. But somehow "physically imposing" at the opposite end is often discounted as not particularly relevant?

I really don't think that's it. It's more like:

"physically imposing" + "outstanding hockey player" = universally positive reviews
"soft as butter" + "outstanding hockey player" = mixed reviews
"physically imposing" + "mediocre hockey player" = mixed reviews
"soft as butter" + "mediocre hockey player" = universally negative reviews

So if you're rolling up in a Trouba vs Hamilton thread, you better be ready to read some mixed reviews.

 

[The Tourist]

Trouba wouldn’t rank in the top 30 of toughest dmen.

 

[Strait2thecup]

Hamilton. AINEC applies

 

[Elvs]

I'd rather have Trouba simply because his contract is up sooner.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I'd rather have Trouba. Hamilton is slightly better, but not enough that I'd prefer the worse contract.

People say Trouba is overpaid, but I don't think so. He's absolutely getting that contract on the open market. He average 35 points per 82 games, has scored 50 before, had 39 last season with minimal power play time. He's pretty much the best there is at combining being very good at hitting, very good at blocking shots, and very good at putting up points among defensemen in the league.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

HF boards fans dont like physicality because its not quantifiable. They cant argue it in charts and advanced stats. Typically posters that have played the sport at a high enough level absolutely value it. Which is why nhl franchises value this aspect of the game. Its important, if posters are really watching playoff series and not just advanced stats even if they didnt play it should be identifiable. The intimidation factor is huge. Lining up against a guy like him and playing every second shift against him in a playoff series wares on guys mentally.

Ha here we go with the usual I played some form of hockey back in the day, so my opinion is of higher value post.

 

[Elvs]

Ha here we go with the usual I played some form of hockey back in the day, so my opinion is of higher value post.

I've never played hockey and I agree with @bert. Too many fans have too strong opinions about things they have no clue about. You have to look no further than the Trouba thread regarding his captaincy right now, as if people on HFboards have any idea who is a good captain or not.

I remembering once listening to a fan-made podcast where one guy would say "hockey isn't some social activety" which has to be among the most absurd hockey related thing I've ever heard. That is something only a person playing franchise mode on EA would say. For the people involved in professional sports, it's just like any other workplace, and there's so many things going on behind the scenes we don't know about that plays into trades, signings and other decisions.

I'm not saying fans shouldn't be allowed to debate or speculate. It's of course all part of the fun. But one could stand to look in the mirror sometimes, and ask what people would be saying about them and their workplace, if their careers in carpenting or nursing was being discussed on an online message board.

In relation to what @bert was saying, a person on the outside might look at a building and think "it's nice", while the carpenter might see the details and truly appreciate all the hard work that went into putting it all together. Similarly, a hockey player (or former hockey player) might appreciate the grit or work ethic they see in other hockey players, or understand the importance of someone having a good locker room persona, in ways that many fans on the outside can't quantify.

 

[bert]

Ha here we go with the usual I played some form of hockey back in the day, so my opinion is of higher value post.

Did you even read the post you quoted?....

I'd rather have Trouba. Hamilton is slightly better, but not enough that I'd prefer the worse contract.

People say Trouba is overpaid, but I don't think so. He's absolutely getting that contract on the open market. He average 35 points per 82 games, has scored 50 before, had 39 last season with minimal power play time. He's pretty much the best there is at combining being very good at hitting, very good at blocking shots, and very good at putting up points among defensemen in the league.

Which is such a unique trait in a player. Name 5 others that can do both effectively. Another reason that makes Seider such an impressive player. There just arent many players like this. Playing on the edge physically while contributing in other ways is a more and more rare commodity in todays NHL. A true mean streak in a player that can log important minutes without going over the line and costing the team are few and far between.

 

[Lays]

Trouba wouldn’t rank in the top 30 of toughest dmen.

You know damn well he would lol

 

[tarheelhockey]

I've never played hockey and I agree with @bert. Too many fans have too strong opinions about things they have no clue about. You have to look no further than the Trouba thread regarding his captaincy right now, as if people on HFboards have any idea who is a good captain or not.

I remembering once listening to a fan-made podcast where one guy would say "hockey isn't some social activety" which has to be among the most absurd hockey related thing I've ever heard. That is something only a person playing franchise mode on EA would say. For the people involved in professional sports, it's just like any other workplace, and there's so many things going on behind the scenes we don't know about that plays into trades, signings and other decisions.

I'm not saying fans shouldn't be allowed to debate or speculate. It's of course all part of the fun. But one could stand to look in the mirror sometimes, and ask what people would be saying about them and their workplace, if their careers in carpenting or nursing was being discussed on an online message board.

In relation to what @bert was saying, a person on the outside might look at a building and think "it's nice", while the carpenter might see the details and truly appreciate all the hard work that was put into putting it all together. Similarly, a hockey player (or former hockey player) might appreciate the grit or work ethic they see in other hockey players, or understand the importance of someone having a good locker room persona, in ways that many fans on the outside can't quantify.

The other side of this coin is that the same thing is true in the NHL that is true in most other workplaces -- the race for advancement isn't necessarily fair or inclusive. Just because Person A supervises Person B doesn't mean Person A is better at the job.

Hamilton has been raked over the coals throughout his career for being socially quirky, and perceived as uncommitted because he doesn't play a grinding game. But the bottom line is that he consistently makes his teams better when he's on the ice, for the simple reason that he's a better hockey player than all but a dozen or two defensemen in the world. That will never lead to him being given a leadership position, being considered a "core" player, or being overrated by a fanbase, because he doesn't project the right image socially. Very similar to what happens in the upper echelons of most other industries.

 

[Master P]

Is this a serious poll? Hamilton by a mile.

 

[summer tooth]

Went with Douglas Hamilton overall. Douglas had the jaw injury last year and was never really able to get going. I think he'll likely bounce back this coming season, and has greater offensive potential than Trouba.
However, Trouba is the bona fide Captain of his team, and a more physical player. He has tremendous leadership qualities, and sets a great example for the young players. Close one but Douglas is the winner.

 

[Wallet Inspector]

Trouba is insanely overrated.