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Well, the source is Panetta in his apology. That's the literal only source we have right now about what anybody said.
Jacksonville's Panetta directs racist taunt at Jordan Subban; Suspended Indefinitely
- Thread starter CrazyEddie20
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JMCx4
Censorship is the Sincerest Form of Flattery
Tao Jersey Jones
Registered User
Well me for one. Society should probably be in there as well. You shouldn't be able to punish someone for a common gesture that was interpreted in a racist way and paint someone who should be presumed innocent as a racist without doing your due diligence.
Lindberg Cheese
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Throw More Waffles
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Here's where I think this is a slippery slope.
A white person does something with zero intention of making it racial... but if a person of color perceives it as racial, it's now racial.
The end result of a society like this is white people walking on eggshells with any encounter with people of color. If random words and gestures that aren't racial can get one "canceled" if perceived as racist, white people will just stop being around people of color entirely. Or not hire them. It's just not worth the risk.
Clearly society isn't at that point right now. But that's why I consider instances like this a slippery slope.
A white person does something with zero intention of making it racial... but if a person of color perceives it as racial, it's now racial.
The end result of a society like this is white people walking on eggshells with any encounter with people of color. If random words and gestures that aren't racial can get one "canceled" if perceived as racist, white people will just stop being around people of color entirely. Or not hire them. It's just not worth the risk.
Clearly society isn't at that point right now. But that's why I consider instances like this a slippery slope.
Throw More Waffles
Unprecedented Dramatic Overpayments
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Probably not.
The ECHL isn't concerned with any individual here. They are concerned only with optics. And the optics of "looking lightly on racism" is far more damaging to them than ruining some random minor hockey league players life. There will be no (or only a very tiny) outrage mob if he's unjustly punished. And that's the safer bet for the ECHL.
JMCx4
Censorship is the Sincerest Form of Flattery
Can you cite one or more examples of this end result occurring previously? I'm drawing a blank.
Lindberg Cheese
Registered User
Well on the bright side, we don’t need courts and lawyers anymore
CrazyEddie20
Hey RuZZia - Cut Your Losses and Go Home.
So white privilege is a myth?
Everyone born in the U.S. and Canada has the same advantages from birth regardless of race, religion, economic status, etc.?
Throw More Waffles
Unprecedented Dramatic Overpayments
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Read my last sentence again. I'm saying slippery slopes like this becoming commonplace will bring us to such an outcome. Thankfully things like this (being accused of racism for doing a muscle man gesture) are still relatively uncommon. And we should be fighting to keep it that way.Can you cite one or more examples of this end result occurring previously? I'm drawing a blank.
Throw More Waffles
Unprecedented Dramatic Overpayments
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Majority privilege is very real and occurs in every country (and much more so in most other places than in western democracies).
Majority privilege can and should be addressed. But not in ways that alienate the majority and unite them in fighting against change. And "muscle man" gestures being "racist" because a black man.. well... just decided that... yeah, that's getting to the "too far" territory.
CloutierForVezina
Registered User
Can you cite one or more examples of this end result occurring previously? I'm drawing a blank.
Not exactly the same, but some men are so concerned about sexual assault / harassment accusations that they try to avoid ever being alone with women in professional environments. The most famous example is the Mike Pence rule where he is never alone with a woman who isn't his wife. He was laughed at for following such an extreme rule, but it appears more people may be adopting similar ones these days.
There are articles such as this one which suggest a more widespread adoption of men avoiding women in professional environments. They quote statistics saying that 27% of men avoid one-on-one meetings with female coworkers, among other stats. They also claim that women are less likely to be hired for jobs which require extended close contact, like business travel.
It's not completely outlandish to suggest this ideology could grow in popularity or expand to be more than just "avoid women".
I don't support any of this, to be clear, but it does appear to be a real thing that's happening right now.
CrazyEddie20
Hey RuZZia - Cut Your Losses and Go Home.
Can you cite one or more examples of this end result occurring previously? I'm drawing a blank.
He can't, because they don't exist.
CrazyEddie20
Hey RuZZia - Cut Your Losses and Go Home.
Throw More Waffles
Unprecedented Dramatic Overpayments
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I fully agree. Whatever the punishments are for "muscle man" gestures, he should be held accountable. I don't think there are many rules against muscle man gestures though...
CrazyEddie20
Hey RuZZia - Cut Your Losses and Go Home.
He wasn't making a muscle man gesture, and you know it.
SemireliableSource
Liter-a-cola
The apologists in here ... massive OOF.
I'm a white guy. I don't live on eggshells and I don't go out of my way to make sure people aren't offended. It's amazing what happens when you're just a decent human being.
I don't go out of my way to not offend people, there are plenty of people who don't like me. What I do go out of my way to do is be fiercely anti-racist.
Whether he actually said the thing about a tough guy or not, there's no excuse for making the "slippery slope" argument. Pose the argument that the incident may not have been racially motivated, sure. But evoking the slippery slope argument is a terrible take and, whether you know it or not, is highly problematic.
I'm a white guy. I don't live on eggshells and I don't go out of my way to make sure people aren't offended. It's amazing what happens when you're just a decent human being.
I don't go out of my way to not offend people, there are plenty of people who don't like me. What I do go out of my way to do is be fiercely anti-racist.
Whether he actually said the thing about a tough guy or not, there's no excuse for making the "slippery slope" argument. Pose the argument that the incident may not have been racially motivated, sure. But evoking the slippery slope argument is a terrible take and, whether you know it or not, is highly problematic.
vandymeer13
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Throw More Waffles
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What I and many others say is "problematic" is the normalization of "I perceived it as racist, so it IS racist. End of discussion. No other facts/information matter."
I'm not saying that I or you have to walk on egg shells currently.
What I'm saying is that once what I wrote above becomes normalized, things will spire out of control. Thankfully there are far too many smart people that oppose normalizing such things. For now...
if you can do the tough guy pose on a white player but not on a black player, that's reverse racism. you shouldnt have to act differently around minorities because they could get offended by innocent gestures.
190Octane
Registered User
“There’s nothing wrong with dropping n bombs, I didn’t mean anything by it… completely innocent.”
vandymeer13
Registered User
wildcat48
Registered User
I agree with CrazyEddie20 so im not gonna repeat what he's said, but I will add that we need to stop living in this parallel belief that we are absolved from responsbility and consequences for their actions if we say "oops, I didnt mean that or its not what I meant."
Today, society believes it can do or say whatever it wants whenever it wants to whomever w/o accepting responsibility or consequences. Society doesn't work that way. It's never work that way.
Panetta had a choice. He made his decision to make that gesture in that moment to that person. He has to live with the consequences of that decision. Its not an oops moment. It's a "I f**ked up moment" and accept responsibility for your actions.
Actions have consequences and we as a civil society need to realize that we are not absolved from those responsibilities.
Today, society believes it can do or say whatever it wants whenever it wants to whomever w/o accepting responsibility or consequences. Society doesn't work that way. It's never work that way.
Panetta had a choice. He made his decision to make that gesture in that moment to that person. He has to live with the consequences of that decision. Its not an oops moment. It's a "I f**ked up moment" and accept responsibility for your actions.
Actions have consequences and we as a civil society need to realize that we are not absolved from those responsibilities.
CrazyEddie20
Hey RuZZia - Cut Your Losses and Go Home.
If you capitalize the first letter of the first word of a sentence and use proper punctuation, that's virtue signalling at the intelligent.
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