Speculation: Jack Eichel

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

Either way, I see him ending up in Vegas or Florida.

 

[57special]

He has 5 years left, and he's likely to miss most or all of this one. No one knows how effective a player he will be when he eventually plays again.

A 10 mil cap hit is a lot to absorb for any team. The risk outweighs the potential reward.

Exactly. For all intents and purposes, he has 4 years left on his contract, but the proposed framework of the deal reported on by Lebrun would have the acquiring team paying 10M for the privilege of watching Eichel sit around and recover(hopefully) from his surgery.

 

[jay from jersey]

LeBrun: The latest on renewed Jack Eichel trade talks

Some of the key notes:

Oh my goodness. Like most NYR fans have been saying....
The rangers interest is going to be directly tied to what Drurys decision on Zibbys future with the club.

I still don’t think ANA or OTT make sense. Not at the stage in their current rebuilds.
The most interested parties are likely NYR, Vegas,Cal, Minn some teams would have to send a fair amount of cap back to Buff for more then a year which makes things problematic.
I think there might be 1-2 dark horse candidates from CBJ, Boston, and just because LeBrun keeps pumping them, ANA ( doubtful imo)

with Byfield looking ready to make the Jump, all of the talent the kings have in center prospects, and the fact they just signed Danault and still have Kopitar signed makes them all but out of it imo. It’s better off for them, they are still early in their rebuild stage and have to start transitioning some older guys with big contracts out so they can get a better look at all those kids. No doubt the kings will make trades, just highly doubt it would be for an injured Eichel at this time, the risk doesn’t make much sense for them.

 

[bernmeister]

If you let Zibby go and don’t get Eichel or someone similar to insert immediately, your basically throwing away any chance of seriously competing for the rest of the panarin deal while he’s in his prime years. That’s not going to happen.
They aren’t going to go in that direction because they are worried about having cap problems 3-4 years down the road. It makes no sense to volunteer to downgrade your 1C position with this team in their current stage.
There’s probably a less then 1% chance trouba moves earlier then 3 years. Lindgren will likely also be here for the entirety of his deal barring some unforeseen injury. He’s not a player that’s going to break the bank, very important to the team, and keeps Fox happy.

False assumptions in bold
Fox is smart enough to understand the big picture re Lindy

I believe Trouba + wife already living in FL.
now!
was that bogus?
If not JT to FL {TB] is potentially doable IF enough incentive

 

[jay from jersey]

Here’s the thing comparing eichel vs krebs, right now you keep krebs. He’s younger, he’s team controlled longer, he’s ALOT cheaper, and you don’t know what a post surgery eichel will be like. The argument how eichel is an elite center man, even if he is still that post surgery let’s look at the teams success with elite centermen:

Mcdavid - 1 playoff round win in 6 yrs
Drasaitl - ditto
Barkov - 0 playoff round wins in 8 years
Matthews - 0 playoff round wins in 5 yrs
Taveras - 1 playoff round win in 13 yrs
Scheifele - 2 playoff round wins in 9 yrs
Mackinnon - 4 playoff round wins in 8 yrs
Crosby and Malkin - 0 playoff round wins in the last 3 yrs
Kopitar - 0 playoff round wins in the last 7 yrs
Zibanejad - 0 playoff round wins the last 3 yrs when he’s been considered a star

so landing a high cap superstar center doesn’t necessarily translate to success

I’d like to add, of the above mentioned 8 total playoff round wins by the list of players I mentioned, 6 of those were from darling caphits of mackinnon and scheifele.

Name me a $10 million center caphit or greater with at least one playoff round win, I’ll wait…

I get what your saying but it’s kind of cherry picked. Tampa/Chicago/pens won multiple cups paying centers high end money.
The key is having solid D and goalies to support the strength up the middle.

 

[jay from jersey]

False assumptions in bold
Fox is smart enough to understand the big picture re Lindy

I believe Trouba + wife already living in FL.
now!
was that bogus?
If not JT to FL {TB] is potentially doable IF enough incentive

Talk about false assumptions. What you call thinking “ outside the box” normal people call bat shit crazy. It’s not how things happen in the business of the sport.
That’s why none of your video game imaginary trades ever come close to happening??
Panarin lives in FLA too??? You think he would waive early???
A lot of nhl players live in Vegas/FLA/Tenn. and have it as their all year residence to avoid taxes.
There is absolutely 0 indication Trouba has any reason to want to waive his nMC early, nor that the rangers would even want to deal him at that point. He’s about to be named captain.
but I’m the 1 with false assumptions.........rigggght

 

[Pinkfloyd]

There are some Sharks fans who would like to trade for him, but I don't think it's the right thing to do. Our asset pool is finally building up again and I don't think we have enough young talent to get rid of it quite yet.

I was for trading him in the offseason when they could reasonably get Eichel to play for them this season. Now, it's not looking like that's going to be good odds. Only way you trade for Eichel now is if you're throwing in the towel for this season and I can't imagine the team doing that. But if they get off to a horrible start then they could but they'd have to protect that 2022 1st round pick in the process and recoup at least some of what they lose in that deal by trading Hertl.

 

[centipede2233]

I get what your saying but it’s kind of cherry picked. Tampa/Chicago/pens won multiple cups paying centers high end money.
The key is having solid D and goalies to support the strength up the middle.

Tampa won there first cup with vasi at 4 mil caphit, kucherov 4 mil and point 6.5 mil. Tampa won there second cup with kucherov off the books and point still on his bridge.

Chicago we’re winning cups,with Kane and Toews at 6.5 mil caphits, pens had a 6.7 mil Kassel , and Crosby and malkin both generational centres at 9-9.5 mil. When you have Crosby and malkin at 30 yrs old at those caphits, you win cups, when you have giroux and voracek not making much less, you don’t win cups.
It’s not just about the elite talent, it’s about the talent to caphit ratio.

Remember 2007/08, Crosby first SCF appearance, both he and malkin were on ELC caphits. In 2008/09, Crosby was now at 8.7 mil caphit but malkin was in his last year of his ELC. Then after Pittsburgh’s back to back finals, they went the next six years not even making it to the conference final with a prime Crosby and malkin. Want to know why? Because Pittsburgh needed the cap to inflate every year and it got to a point where Crosby an malkin caphits were now not as restrictive to the team cap.

that’s why when dubas signed matthews to that 5 yr contract, Toronto was doomed, there wasn’t enough runway for the cap to escalate to get it to a,point where matthews and Mariners caphits would be less restrictive. And when COVID came, it was definitely game over.

 

[57special]

I believe that MN could make things work financially if Fiala was involved in the deal. He will be making at least 6.5M next year as an RFA, maybe more. Goligoski is rumoured have signed a handshake deal for 2M next year, rather than the 5M he is being paid this year. Greenway(2M, more next year as an RFA) might have to be traded and replaced with an ELC. That's more than Eichel's cap hit being saved next year, when the Parise and Suter cap hits really come into play.

I won't talk about Eichel's neck, or his value. Separate issues. I will say that it would tank MN's season to send Fiala to BUF (unless Eichel makes a miraculously quick recovery), and that's the only way I can see that makes the deal work financially for MN.

Bottom line is that Lebrun is somewhat, but not completely right that MN would have problems fitting Eichel in under the cap.

 

[jay from jersey]

Tampa won there first cup with vasi at 4 mil caphit, kucherov 4 mil and point 6.5 mil. Tampa won there second cup with kucherov off the books and point still on his bridge.

Chicago we’re winning cups,with Kane and Toews at 6.5 mil caphits, pens had a 6.7 mil Kassel , and Crosby and malkin both generational centres at 9-9.5 mil. When you have Crosby and malkin at 30 yrs old at those caphits, you win cups, when you have giroux and voracek not making much less, you don’t win cups.
It’s not just about the elite talent, it’s about the talent to caphit ratio.

Remember 2007/08, Crosby first SCF appearance, both he and malkin were on ELC caphits. In 2008/09, Crosby was now at 8.7 mil caphit but malkin was in his last year of his ELC. Then after Pittsburgh’s back to back finals, they went the next six years not even making it to the conference final with a prime Crosby and malkin. Want to know why? Because Pittsburgh needed the cap to inflate every year and it got to a point where Crosby an malkin caphits were now not as restrictive to the team cap.

that’s why when dubas signed matthews to that 5 yr contract, Toronto was doomed, there wasn’t enough runway for the cap to escalate to get it to a,point where matthews and Mariners caphits would be less restrictive. And when COVID came, it was definitely game over.

Tampa could have won more with Stamkos playing center, while being highly paid, they were in the dance a lot.
Kings are another team that had a lot of cash tied up at C and won.
Your taking the lower cap hit, but your not adjust the salary cap rate. It was lower at that time. A better barometer would be % of cap

 

[centipede2233]

Tampa could have won more with Stamkos playing center, while being highly paid, they were in the dance a lot.
Kings are another team that had a lot of cash tied up at C and won

kings had kopitar on a 6.7 mil caphit and a prime carter at 5 mil…nowhere near 10 mil caphits…..

sometimes I feel like I’m debating with 8 yr olds

 

[jay from jersey]

kings had kopitar on a 6.7 mil caphit and a prime carter at 5 mil…nowhere near 10 mil caphits…..

sometimes I feel like I’m debating with 8 yr olds

Again, % percentage of the cap is a better indicator. You have to equate 10 mill per for what the cap is now.
And what those players cap hits were when the cap was lower.
When Crosby got 8.7 there were exactly 0 10 million dollar players in the league. As it was for most of your examples. It’s flawed logic.

how does my 8 year old intelligence see that yet you don’t comprehend it?

 

[57special]

Lebrun's reporting that some of the trade's return would be conditional makes me think that 2023 picks would be involved there. The way things are going, there it's unlikely that Eichel will be able to prove much of anything to a new team this year.

 

[centipede2233]

Again, % percentage of the cap is a better indicator. You have to equate 10 mill per for what the cap is now.
And what those players cap hits were when the cap was lower.
When Crosby got 8.7 there were exactly 0 10 million dollar players in the league. As it was for most of your examples. It’s flawed logic.

how does my 8 year old intelligence see that yet you don’t comprehend it?

Lol

 

[CupInSIX]

LeBrun: The latest on renewed Jack Eichel trade talks

Some of the key notes:

Adams finally realizes that the only way he gets moved is he takes back conditional picks based on games played & performance. I said this months ago.

Now teams are waiting for when he can be LTIRed straight to the playoffs (remember, the playoffs don't start until May this season). The 4 month timeline means we'll be waiting another 3 months or so...

 

[Selanne00008]

Lebrun's reporting that some of the trade's return would be conditional makes me think that 2023 picks would be involved there. The way things are going, there it's unlikely that Eichel will be able to prove much of anything to a new team this year.

Good, I like 2023 picks. I hope it's only based on games played and not performance though. I just don't want to root for the guy after he leaves town.

 

[Snippit]

Vegas made it clear Peyton Krebs is off the table. That's the future cornerstone of that franchise.
He destroyed the WHL last year as the leading scorer, with significant separation from the pack. Moved up to the pro minors in the AHL for just 5 games and was a pt per game pace at 20 yrs old.
A few days ago he just tossed Colorado's salad, banking 4 pts in a 7-4 win.
He's also in the 1st year of his 3 yr rookie contract, meaning he's their asset for likely 10+ years, with the next 3 yrs at less than a million AAV.
He's a good kid with a great attitude, leadership qualities and unlimited potential.

Jack Eichel. Named captain of the team at a very young age. His first 3 years in the NHL, not a pt per game player (177 pts in 209 games for 0.847 pts/game). Yet they still gave him an $80 million dollar contract over max term of 8 years. Never once made the playoffs. Publicly requests a trade.
Makes twitter account, just to emoji the organization that gave him everything, because he didn't get traded within his demanded time frame.
Currently an enigma in regards to his health, with a pending major neck surgery as soon as he leaves Buffalo.
5 years @ $10M AAV. Turns 25 yrs old in a couple weeks.

Vegas fans are still grieving over the Suzuki deal. This would cause a franchise meltdown and could serve as the catalyst for the downfall of the Vegas Golden Knights.

Looks like their media are not fond of the idea as well: https://sinbin.vegas/why-peyton-krebs-cannot-be-included-in-any-deal-for-jack-eichel/

I don't think any GM wants to gamble on Jack Eichel with the price tag Adams is asking for. But if there is a team that might, imo, it's the Anaheim Ducks

It’s about wanting to win a cup or not. List the teams in the last 20 years that have won a cup without an elite 1C. Now list the teams that have won the cup without a 1C at all (cause VGK doesn’t have even that).

all of the factors you mentioned are why the price has come down as far as it has. Krebs plus a few pieces would normally not even get you halfway there if Eichel was healthy and everything was smooth sailing.

I think eventually a smart GM will jump in on an opportunity to buy low on a star centre, and I think VGK seems likely to be the one to do that.

 

[The Duck Knight]

It’s about wanting to win a cup or not. List the teams in the last 20 years that have won a cup without an elite 1C. Now list the teams that have won the cup without a 1C at all (cause VGK doesn’t have even that).

all of the factors you mentioned are why the price has come down as far as it has. Krebs plus a few pieces would normally not even get you halfway there if Eichel was healthy and everything was smooth sailing.

I think eventually a smart GM will jump in on an opportunity to buy low on a star centre, and I think VGK seems likely to be the one to do that.

But it wouldn't be buying low for Vegas. That's the problem. They'd need to move 3 guys who will be in their top 9 forwards come playoff time (Tuch/Smith/Krebs). A move for Eichel would gut their depth. Now if Eichel were healthy you could justify it because of how good he is, but a team like Vegas simply can't afford to take that kind of a chance. Hertl is a far more likely target.

The teams that make sense for Eichel are the Rangers and Flames and Ducks of the world. The teams that can afford to not get immediate results out of a deal and don't have to sacrifice too much of their current rosters.

 

[bsu]

This shit needs to end already. Buffalo is a f***ing mess. Not trading him before this years draft is one of the most idiotic things I have ever seen.

 

[sufferer]

This shit needs to end already. Buffalo is a f***ing mess. Not trading him before this years draft is one of the most idiotic things I have ever seen.

no

 

[Snippit]

But it wouldn't be buying low for Vegas. That's the problem. They'd need to move 3 guys who will be in their top 9 forwards come playoff time (Tuch/Smith/Krebs). A move for Eichel would gut their depth. Now if Eichel were healthy you could justify it because of how good he is, but a team like Vegas simply can't afford to take that kind of a chance. Hertl is a far more likely target.

The teams that make sense for Eichel are the Rangers and Flames and Ducks of the world. The teams that can afford to not get immediate results out of a deal and don't have to sacrifice too much of their current rosters.

For this season you don’t have to clear 10M of cap for him. Put him on LTIR and I believe when he returns the remaining salary gets prorated. Or if he returns for just playoffs his cap hit is literally 0 just like Tampa did with Kucherov

 

[bsu]

This shits dragging on longer than the Walking Dead.

 

[IranCondraAffair]

Oh my goodness. Like most NYR fans have been saying....
The rangers interest is going to be directly tied to what Drurys decision on Zibbys future with the club.

I still don’t think ANA or OTT make sense. Not at the stage in their current rebuilds.
The most interested parties are likely NYR, Vegas,Cal, Minn some teams would have to send a fair amount of cap back to Buff for more then a year which makes things problematic.
I think there might be 1-2 dark horse candidates from CBJ, Boston, and just because LeBrun keeps pumping them, ANA ( doubtful imo)

with Byfield looking ready to make the Jump, all of the talent the kings have in center prospects, and the fact they just signed Danault and still have Kopitar signed makes them all but out of it imo. It’s better off for them, they are still early in their rebuild stage and have to start transitioning some older guys with big contracts out so they can get a better look at all those kids. No doubt the kings will make trades, just highly doubt it would be for an injured Eichel at this time, the risk doesn’t make much sense for them.

Anaheim makes zero sense now that they seem to have decided to commit to a rebuild. We'll see at the deadline where they are, but they might be getting rid of a bunch of pieces soon.

Ottawa makes more sense, but the risk and money involved doesn't work for them. That said, if Buffalo trades with Calgary and gets back, say, Monhan, that could be something Ottawa looks at more closely.

 

[Syckle78]

Vegas made it clear Peyton Krebs is off the table. That's the future cornerstone of that franchise.
He destroyed the WHL last year as the leading scorer, with significant separation from the pack. Moved up to the pro minors in the AHL for just 5 games and was a pt per game pace at 20 yrs old.
A few days ago he just tossed Colorado's salad, banking 4 pts in a 7-4 win.
He's also in the 1st year of his 3 yr rookie contract, meaning he's their asset for likely 10+ years, with the next 3 yrs at less than a million AAV.
He's a good kid with a great attitude, leadership qualities and unlimited potential.

Jack Eichel. Named captain of the team at a very young age. His first 3 years in the NHL, not a pt per game player (177 pts in 209 games for 0.847 pts/game). Yet they still gave him an $80 million dollar contract over max term of 8 years. Never once made the playoffs. Publicly requests a trade.
Makes twitter account, just to emoji the organization that gave him everything, because he didn't get traded within his demanded time frame.
Currently an enigma in regards to his health, with a pending major neck surgery as soon as he leaves Buffalo.
5 years @ $10M AAV. Turns 25 yrs old in a couple weeks.

Vegas fans are still grieving over the Suzuki deal. This would cause a franchise meltdown and could serve as the catalyst for the downfall of the Vegas Golden Knights.

Looks like their media are not fond of the idea as well: https://sinbin.vegas/why-peyton-krebs-cannot-be-included-in-any-deal-for-jack-eichel/

I don't think any GM wants to gamble on Jack Eichel with the price tag Adams is asking for. But if there is a team that might, imo, it's the Anaheim Ducks

That's the oddest use of tossing salad I've ever seen. You might wanna check what it actually means.

 

[DavidBL]

Anaheim makes zero sense now that they seem to have decided to commit to a rebuild. We'll see at the deadline where they are, but they might be getting rid of a bunch of pieces soon.

Ottawa makes more sense, but the risk and money involved doesn't work for them. That said, if Buffalo trades with Calgary and gets back, say, Monhan, that could be something Ottawa looks at more closely.

I disagree. Adding a 24 yo top center is not a bad idea for a rebuilding team depending on the cost. Ducks have had 3 years building up the prospect pool. If they give up mostly future picks then its likely worth it.