Value of: Jack Eichel and the Buffalo Sabres

[LakeLivin]

I think I'm getting the hang of it of this proposal business.

In exchange for Eichel the Canes will give you 5000 new regulation NHL pucks and 5 Canes prospects drafted after the 3rd round (your choice). I realize that none of those pucks is individually on the same tier as Eichel, but there are 5000 of them! And they're new! And each of those prospects could become the next McDavid or Hedman! And there's 5 of them! And you get to choose!

 

[CatchyTune]

JVR isn't the main piece. Did you miss the part where I included Travis Konecny?

JVR is there mostly for salary. Eichel makes too much and all the others are low salaried (including Konecny).

i said a main piece. he is probably the 2nd or 3rd most valuable piece there.

If Konecny is the best piece in return for Eichel they would be better off keeping him.

there would have to be a lot of value on top of him if he is the main piece.

 

[CowbellConray]

If I’m dealing eichel I’m asking for another top player who needs a change as well. I don’t known if there are any other like him out there... but these partials that add to a dollar don’t work. Id hate that type of deal

 

[BrindamoursNose]

that seems like a package that keeps buffalo in perpetual limbo

How?

Patrick can be a top #2 C (IMO)
York was a 1st last year and is on his way
JVR is purely for salary, but he's having a great year so far
Konecny is one of the top wingers in the game signed to a great contract for the next 3-4 years
and a 1st this year to do with what they please.

I think people are delusional if they believe a package much better than this will come up. Truthfully: I don't think Eichel will/would get even this good of a deal, but I'm offering to see what people will say.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

If I’m dealing eichel I’m asking for another top player who needs a change as well. I don’t known if there are any other like him out there... but these partials that add to a dollar don’t work. Id hate that type of deal

That's always how those deals work. The "change of scenery" trades are so rare in comparison - and we already have one of those this year in the Laine trade.

i said a main piece. he is probably the 2nd or 3rd most valuable piece there.


If Konecny is the best piece in return for Eichel they would be better off keeping him.
there would have to be a lot of value on top of him if he is the main piece.

Any trade with Eichel is going to be because he wants out - so keeping him, in this scenario, likely wouldn't be on the table for Buffalo since the NHL doesn't make a habit of benching disgruntled players for a whole season that want to be traded.

At some point, Buff (if Eichel wants out) has to choose from what they're offered and I think this would be a top offer. Most stars don't get nearly as much back as people think they will return.

 

[Not My Tempo]

What would Buffalo's goal with trading Eichel even be? Picks, prospects, tank and rebuild? Lateral change of scenery move where it's superstar for superstar?

 

[CatchyTune]

That's always how those deals work. The "change of scenery" trades are so rare in comparison - and we already have one of those this year in the Laine trade.



Any trade with Eichel is going to be because he wants out - so keeping him, in this scenario, likely wouldn't be on the table for Buffalo since the NHL doesn't make a habit of benching disgruntled players for a whole season that want to be traded.

At some point, Buff (if Eichel wants out) has to choose from what they're offered and I think this would be a top offer. Most stars don't get nearly as much back as people think they will return.

even if he wanted out they wouldnt be forced to trade him for a poor package. he is signed long term. im sure the majority of teams would be interested had Eichel be available.

when did the bolded ever happen? and when has a player of Eichels caliber been moved recently?

 

[Fjordy]

What would Buffalo's goal with trading Eichel even be? Picks, prospects, tank and rebuild? Lateral change of scenery move where it's superstar for superstar?

It's hard to say, but it probably should be players not older Eichel or at ELC contracts, we could also take a cap dump if the team can't fit Eichel's 10 million. The priority would probably be attacking players, not defenders.

 

[Stephen]

even if he wanted out they wouldnt be forced to trade him for a poor package. he is signed long term. im sure the majority of teams would be interested had Eichel be available.

when did the bolded ever happen? and when has a player of Eichels caliber been moved recently?

I think Taylor Hall would be the closest equivalent to age and draft pedigree as a potential Jack Eichel deal. Hall was moved 6 years after his draft, and that is where Eichel is now.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

even if he wanted out they wouldnt be forced to trade him for a poor package. he is signed long term. im sure the majority of teams would be interested had Eichel be available.

when did the bolded ever happen? and when has a player of Eichels caliber been moved recently?

You're right - Eichel's don't get moved really. The best comparison I have is Laine (but that was a rare "change of scenario" trade), or if you want to go further back - Joe Thornton from B's to SJ.

However, organizations don't usually make their stud players unhappy. So once again I have to reiterate: If Eichel is unhappy to the point where he asks to be traded, Buf will have to field offers and choose from what they are given. They can keep a disgruntled Eichel in theory, but as you said: he's signed long-term. He's got to be dealt with at one point or another and hockey teams doesn't generally hold onto miserable players.

Many stars have been traded for packages people feel are insufficient. I think most of the time that's how we feel, actually.

 

[CatchyTune]

I think Taylor Hall would be the closest equivalent to age and draft pedigree as a potential Jack Eichel deal. Hall was moved 6 years after his draft, and that is where Eichel is now.

yeah those are probably the best comps. and i dont think either were at Eichels level at the time of the move.

 

[CatchyTune]

You're right - Eichel's don't get moved really. The best comparison I have is Laine (but that was a rare "change of scenario" trade), or if you want to go further back - Joe Thornton from B's to SJ.

However, organizations don't usually make their stud players unhappy. So once again I have to reiterate: If Eichel is unhappy to the point where he asks to be traded, Buf will have to field offers and choose from what they are given. They can keep a disgruntled Eichel in theory, but as you said: he's signed long-term. He's got to be dealt with at one point or another and hockey teams doesn't generally hold onto miserable players.

Many stars have been traded for packages people feel are insufficient. I think most of the time that's how we feel, actually.

i really dont think Eichels unhappiness in Buffalo would lower his value. even if it is known he wants out, teams will have to give up a lot.

Look at James Harden being traded to Brooklyn. He literally said he wanted to be traded to Brooklyn and they still gave up a shit ton. Pretty sure Houston said they would be comfortable keeping him even if he was unhappy, if the right deal didnt occur.

if you have the premium asset on the table, you call the shots. nobody will be forcing your hand.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

How?

Patrick can be a top #2 C (IMO)
York was a 1st last year and is on his way
JVR is purely for salary, but he's having a great year so far
Konecny is one of the top wingers in the game signed to a great contract for the next 3-4 years
and a 1st this year to do with what they please.

I think people are delusional if they believe a package much better than this will come up. Truthfully: I don't think Eichel will/would get even this good of a deal, but I'm offering to see what people will say.

disagree on patrick. and konecny is nice but trading a top flight center for a winger is already a net loss. jvr isn't going to be much for long and patrick's draft position will likely always exceed his realized production. york is still an unknown on what he might be. I don't think patrick ever amounts to much more than a middle sixer

 

[Fjordy]

Perhaps people just forget that Eichel walked at a pace 94-95 points last season and had Olofsson on his line, who produced almost nothing in ES.

 

[PettersonHughes]

Agreed with an earlier poster, it might make more sense to explore this when the cap situation is improved post-Covid (teams aren't mired in financial problems then either). If a team on the rise with cap space wanted him and I'm Buffalo, I'd try to tether a portion of Okposo's contract (if he's still on the books) to rid of him (trading Skinner seems too much of a pipe dream unless it's for Marc Edouard Vlasic and his long deal). Free up all that cap, get a capable top-6 C, top prospects/ high picks in return, trade Mittlestadt for a pick if he doesn't pan out and build with the functional pieces (Top-6 C, Reinhart, Olofsson, Dahlin as a nucleus to build around, plus probably Cozens and whichever kids emerge in the pipeline).

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

I don't understand why people think they can trade for eichel (when buffalo has no reason to do so unless they are blown away) when eichel is locked under contract long term entering his prime and just cobble together a grab bag of much inferior pieces

you're trying to acquire a silver dollar by offering up four quarters? it ain't happening

 

[Stephen]

Perhaps people just forget that Eichel walked at a pace 94-95 points last season and had Olofsson on his line, who produced almost nothing in ES.

The reality is scoring exploits mean more when they are coupled with team success. A runaway scoring machine is easier to overlook and forget when the the talking point involving that player is how unhappy they are and if they want out. It's even worse when the scoring dries up.

Not to be too critical of Eichel, because we all know he isn't necessarily surrounded with the right supporting cast in Buffalo, but has any thought been put into rounding out his two way game, sacrifice the pure scoring for more defensively sound play as a basis for more team success?

For reference, Mathew Barzal walked into the league with an 85 point rookie season but has dialed it back to be a better soldier on the Islanders at the expense of his own personal stats.

 

[Fjordy]

Agreed with an earlier poster, it might make more sense to explore this when the cap situation is improved post-Covid (teams aren't mired in financial problems then either). If a team on the rise with cap space wanted him and I'm Buffalo, I'd try to tether a portion of Okposo's contract (if he's still on the books) to rid of him (trading Skinner seems too much of a pipe dream unless it's for Marc Edouard Vlasic and his long deal). Free up all that cap, get a capable top-6 C, top prospects/ high picks in return, trade Mittlestadt for a pick if he doesn't pan out and build with the functional pieces (Top-6 C, Reinhart, Olofsson, Dahlin as a nucleus to build around, plus probably Cozens and whichever kids emerge in the pipeline).

Eichel + Okposo bad idea for trade, reduces the cost of the deal. We can send Okposo to the AHL, and then, if necessary, buy out his contract in 1-2 years.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I don't understand why people think they can trade for eichel (when buffalo has no reason to do so unless they are blown away) when eichel is locked under contract long term entering his prime and just cobble together a grab bag of much inferior pieces

you're trying to acquire a silver dollar by offering up four quarters? it ain't happening

It’s how it almost always happens.

 

[Fjordy]

The reality is scoring exploits mean more when they are coupled with team success. A runaway scoring machine is easier to overlook and forget when the the talking point involving that player is how unhappy they are and if they want out. It's even worse when the scoring dries up.

Not to be too critical of Eichel, because we all know he isn't necessarily surrounded with the right supporting cast in Buffalo, but has any thought been put into rounding out his two way game, sacrifice the pure scoring for more defensively sound play as a basis for more team success?

For reference, Mathew Barzal walked into the league with an 85 point rookie season but has dialed it back to be a better soldier on the Islanders at the expense of his own personal stats.

Mathew Barzal has one of the best coaches in the league, and we have some kind of football functionary, not an NHL coach. Eichel is an elite young 1C with a long-term contract, this is not Matt Duchene.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

The reality is scoring exploits mean more when they are coupled with team success. A runaway scoring machine is easier to overlook and forget when the the talking point involving that player is how unhappy they are and if they want out. It's even worse when the scoring dries up.

Not to be too critical of Eichel, because we all know he isn't necessarily surrounded with the right supporting cast in Buffalo, but has any thought been put into rounding out his two way game, sacrifice the pure scoring for more defensively sound play as a basis for more team success?

For reference, Mathew Barzal walked into the league with an 85 point rookie season but has dialed it back to be a better soldier on the Islanders at the expense of his own personal stats.

eh sort of. I don't disagree with your point, he certainly has worked on being a more complete player but his rookie season was also under doug weight as head coach in a completely useless run and gun system. then after barzals rookie season trotz came in and overhauled the structure which always neuters offensively players to a certain degree

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

It’s how it almost always happens.

when's the last time a 80/90+ pt center was traded with 5+ years left on his deal in his mid 20s for a sum of lesser parts?

 

[Stephen]

Mathew Barzal has one of the best coaches in the league, and we have some kind of football functionary, not an NHL coach. Eichel is an elite young 1C with a long-term contract, this is not Matt Duchene.

Think what you'd be after is a Lindros-lite type deal where you are getting one elite prospect back (Forsberg), futures assets and some ready to play NHLers to fill out the roster. I imagine a healthy Sabres program looking like a pack mentality team like the 2000s version with Briere, Drury, Afinogenov, Vanek, Pominville, etc. so you'll need the high end piece and a lot of quality second tier pieces to fill out the rest of the roster.

Though if you look at Colorado's return for Duchene, they definitely got more than they should have, so that would be the floor of a successful Eichel deal.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

when's the last time a 90+ pt center was traded with 5+ years left on his deal in his mid 20s for a sum of lesser parts?

That's an absurdly specific scenario.

People only think he'll be traded if BUF has to trade him. We've established this. That means BUF can't go "Not good enough" and keep him forever. They'd have to take a package at some point and no one is trading a ransom like Eric Lindros got, for example.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

when's the last time a 90+ pt center was traded with 5+ years left on his deal in his mid 20s for a sum of lesser parts?

Considering that list probably has zero names on it to begin with, there isn't a whole lot of support in either direction.